Talk:Jacques Halbert

Notability

Discussion copied from my talk page

Hello Kvng, I have added sources and resubmitted the draft today. Would you please have a look at it and let me know if it's right? Very best, --Philippe49730 (talk) 13:26, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

@Philippe49730: thanks for the improvements. What do you think are the WP:THREE best sources that establish notability of the subject? ~Kvng (talk) 13:55, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Dear Kvng, thank you very much for your answer. I understand the problem and as Jacques Halbert have worked and lived both in the US and in France, there are dozens of journalists, artists, academics articles in many different publications. I have tried to give a honest representation of this. Huge medias like The New York Times, Consulate general of France and Artforum are often considered more reliable sources than smaller medias, reason why I added them and I would choose them to establish notability of Jacques Halbert. --Philippe49730 (talk) 14:52, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

@Philippe49730: What do you think are the WP:THREE best sources that establish notability of the subject?

I think the New York times, Artforum and the Consulate general of France articles are perfectly establishing notability of the subject. --Philippe49730 (talk) 16:18, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

An important purpose of the notability guidelines are to assure there is enough published reporting on a subject to write a factual article. This is a particularly important consideration for biographies of living people. The NYT is a passing mention. I'm not sure what I'm looking at with the Artforum reference. The Consulate is also just a name drop. ~Kvng (talk) 16:34, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

@Philippe49730: I only review submissions more than once if I am convinced I made an error in a review. If you resubmit, another reviewer will have another look in due course. I'm doubtful another reviewer will give you a better assessment so I encourage you to make further improvements or find another way to improve to Wikipedia. ~Kvng (talk) 16:38, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Dear @Kvng:, I am very disappointed by your judgment as the Artforum article is stating Jacques Halbert was part of the opening of the Emily Harvey Foundation in New York city and the Consulate is establishing the choice of Jacques Halbert by France to represent french artists for an exhibition and an happening at The Patricia & Philipp Frost Art Museum in Miami. However thank you very much. Very best, --Philippe49730 (talk) 17:05, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

@Philippe49730: what I said with regards to the Artfourm reference is that I didn't understand what I was looking at. Is this a scan of an article from the magazine? It sort of looks like a press release. What is it? Without being able to tell whether it was WP:RELIABLE, I admit, I did not look at the content very carefully.

The selection by the consulate may well be a prestigious thing but we're not going to make that assessment based on what a WP:PRIMARY source says about it. We like to see WP:SECONDARY coverage of this selection to give context. If there is no such coverage, that absence is not good evidence for the importance of all this. ~Kvng (talk) 21:49, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Dear @Kvng:, I am only using WP:SECONDARY. It is very important you understand that the consulate article is a WP:PRIMARY when used for an article on the exhibition, but that it becomes a WP:SECONDARY when used for an article on a single artist in this exhibition and it is indeed a very prestigious thing. It is also very prestigious for an artist to have works bought by institutions like Centre Georges Pompidou, Centre National des Arts Plastiques or the Emily Harvey Foundation. Very best, --Philippe49730 (talk) 07:15, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Dear @Kvng:, I asked Racconish for advice about this problem of notability that I could not solve for the article on Jacques Halbert. He advised me to bring to your attention the following sources: 1,2, 3, 4, 5. Do you think they are useful and suitable to establish the notability of Jacques Halbert? Very best, --Philippe49730 (talk) 19:03, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

@Kvng: see here the related discussion. Let me know if you still have a concern about the notability of the subject. Cheers, — Racconish ^💬 19:08, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

@Philippe49730: [1] and [2] or [3] add up to two WP:RELIABLE sources (two articles in the same publication are only counted once). This achieves the bare minimum required by WP:GNG. As I said above, I don't re review unless convinced I've made a mistake. These sources are not in the article. If you add them and then resubmit, another reviewer may or may not accept the submission. If you want more certainty, find more coverage like this and add it too. ~Kvng (talk) 23:02, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Kvng, I see no reason why the 2013 and the 2015 articles in Ouest France should be considered as one single source. Kindly refer to WP:GNG: this is not a similar story with different headlines, but two different stories on two different events, 2 years apart. Paris Art is an independent online magazine, described in the article on its editor, André Rouillé, as "the first French website devoted to contemporary culture" (which I grant you might be a little overdone, but still, this is a web magazine). Here are additional sources to establish the notability of the subject:

• Fayet, Eric (December 2003). "Halbert: Jacques a Dit: "Riez"". Beaux Arts Magazine. I quote the abstract from Art Full Index: "A review of “Jacques Halbert. Le Mur du rire,” an exhibition at Le Creux de l'enfer–centre d'art contemporain, Thiers, France, through December 31, 2003. This exhibition, organized to celebrate Halbert's return to France from his self-imposed exile in America, features 50 paintings and ten super-eight films and is dedicated to the pleasure of the creative life. Its highpoint is Le Mur du rire, a sound installation consisting of the recorded laughter of Halbert and his friends; initially conceived as a self-portrait, the piece raises questions about the biological, social, and cultural functions of this expression of happiness."
• Slesin, Suzanne (25 May 1985). "East Village Dining Lures the Art Crowd". New York Times. I quote the relevant passage : "Jacques Halbert and Mireille Brame opened the Art Cafe, a wine bar and restaurant, at 151 Second Avenue, between Ninth and 10th Streets, last New Year's Eve. "We wanted something easy, a place where people who like to sit could come and do nothing," said Mr. Halbert, whose establishment is frequented by neighborhood artists as well as local gallery owners and art critics. Glass doors open onto a sidewalk terrace and Mr. Halbert's own art works decorate the walls. The restaurauteur had also applied his artistic skills to his and Miss Brame's jackets. Both had been painted in a realistic pattern of red cherries. "I'm a painter and I also like to show different artists' work, he said. But I don't sell the works. I do it just for pleasure." Even the wine lists got an artistic treatment. They are hand-drawn on empty wine bottles that have been painted. "Four of them get stolen every night," Mr. Halbert said. "I guess that one day, I'll stop making them."
• Avril, Janine Alyse (7 January 1999). "The Best...The Beautiful...And The Bizarre; So Socal; Divine Inspiration". Los Angeles Times. "Artist Jacques Halbert's most recent project, "Tickly Paintings," on view through February at Cava Restaurant in West Hollywood, grew from his fascination with Buddhism. "Situations are dealt with in less stressful ways than in the Catholic environment I was raised in," says the French emigre, who is known locally for the whimsical paintings that hang in Splash, the Redondo Beach restaurant in which his friend, Serge Burckel, is chef. Inspired by many Buddhists' recollections of seeing "tickly bubbles" when in deep meditation, Halbert painted each Buddha (more than 80, with such titles as "Electric Buddha," "Caramel Buddha" and "Buddha for a Free Tibet") within a bright, bubbly circle. "Before, I painted more meticulously. My technique for these paintings felt liberating to me," the artist says. "I broke my own systems."
• Sullivan, Paul (8 April 2017). "A Party to Remember? For $100,000, It Had Better Be". New York Times. "In some instances, the venue can be a great help. Jacques Halbert, a French artist and a former New York restaurant owner, said he gave a party in October at Le Carroi, a museum in the Loire Valley in France that would have been hard to stage without the museum's help. The theme was the 100th anniversary of the Dada art movement. "On every chair, I wanted to attach a fishing pole, so every guest would have a hat hanging over his head," Mr. Halbert said. "I had 250 guests. I needed 250 hats and 250 fishing poles." The museum connected him with a group of gardeners who had bamboo poles that could be used as fishing poles. "They also knew someone who worked at a hat factory, and we got the hats for 50 cents each," he said, adding, "If I'd been alone, I'd have been incompetent."

On Halbert and Fluxus, see [4] and [5] (also available here). Finally a notable collector of Halbert's work is Brian Johnson:

• Berwick, Carly (Summer 2005). "Keepin' it Surreal". Artnews.,
• Castillo, Arielle (June 2011). "AC/DC's car-crazy frontman Brian Johnson shows us the goods inside his Florida garage". Spin Magazine.

Thanks, — Racconish ^💬 07:42, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Racconish The article did not demonstrate notability when I reviewed it. I'm not going un reject it and review it again. It can be resubmitted with the new material included and looked at by a different AfC reviewer. Or you can move it to mainspace yourself. AfC is an optional process. ~Kvng (talk) 12:59, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough. Philippe49730, please incorporate these new sources in the article and let me know when you will be done. I will then reread it and move it to the main space. Thanks, — Racconish ^💬 14:13, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Dear User:Racconish, dear User:Kvng, the 5 sources are now incorporated. Very best, --Philippe49730 (talk) 16:02, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Philippe49730, why didn't you use the sources here ?

User:Racconish, it's done. Best, --Philippe49730 (talk) 16:57, 1 May 2019 (UTC)