Talk:Évian Conference

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Thumbnail Pop-up[edit]

Sorry I am not technically adept enough to just fix this. The thumbnail that pops up (for instance on the page for the year 1938) if you hover your cursor over the link to this page reads "The Évian Conference was convened 6-15 July 1938, at Évian-les-Bains, France, to discuss If gay people should be able to play fortnite." This is incorrect and does not reflect the opening sentences of the page. I can't find where the text for the pop-up resides. Would someone who has that skill please fix this? Thank you.

Untitled[edit]

I will expand the list, and other information, later, it takes some time. Kraxler 19:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's done. Anybody who could contribute with more information, feel free to edit. Kraxler 18:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of attendees[edit]

I have rearranged this into alphabetical order as I think it makes it easier to scan for a particular country. I listed the Republic of Ireland as beginning with "I" rather than "R" as this generally seems to be the accepted convention. Hope you agree otherwise feel free to change it back to how it was before. I would like to add that I found it to be an interesting article and not something that I've seen mentioned before for some reason. IrishPete 23:21, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the article it is stated that the AUSTRIAN delegate said, that his country would not like to import a racial problem by leting German Jews immigrate. I think this is a misprint: it should mean AUSTRALIAN delegate as far as I know. By the time of the conference July 1938 there was no Austria as an independent state anymore: it had been annexed by Germany 5 months earlier and had gone through a very violent perod of submission under Nazi-German law and proceedings. Certainly there was no independent AUSTRIAN delegate allowed to take part. And it would just not make sense to let German Jews "emigrate" to another part of Nazi-Germany. The new masters of Austria had set up an office in Vienna which issued "J" branded passports(J for Jude = Jew) for those who were willing to leave all their property to the Nazis. But only those who could get visas were able to emigrate. So it just does not make sense that an Austian delegate said that. banhdaya —Preceding unsigned comment added by Banhdaya (talk • contribs) 10:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

POV question[edit]

I'm just wondering whether the use of the word problem in the lead sentence is completely NPOV. It currently reads:

The Évian Conference was convened at the initiative of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt in July, 1938 to discuss the problem of Jewish refugees.

If others feel the same and don't want to rewrite it, I'd be happy to give it a try. Changing problem to question might be a simple solution.

This webpage [1] puts the word in quotation marks, suggesting that they have a concern over it, although that doesn't necessarily mean it's out of place here.

Sidefall (talk) 11:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why not use that modern and more neutral word "issue"?89.240.108.230 (talk) 18:56, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting - I thought I changed this last year! Have replaced it with "issue" and also made the sentence more general as the refugees weren't just leaving Germany. Sidefall (talk) 21:03, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Representative from Palestine"[edit]

Golda Meir attended the conference with the title of the "representative from Palestine." She describes (in her autobiography My Life) how she was not allowed to speak or vote, but only to observe. Yet the press conference which she delivered afterwards was one of the most covered events of the conference, since Palestine was the hot-button aspect to the whole Jewish refugee issue even then. I'm not sure which list she fits into, anybody have any ideas? Rudy Breteler (talk) 04:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Allegation removed[edit]

I have removed the following allegation from the article:

Before the Conference, the United States and Great Britain made an agreement: the British promised not to bring up the fact that the U.S. was not filling its immigration quotas, and the Americans refrained from mentioning Palestine as a possible destination for the refugees.[citation needed]

If this is true, and not simply a "fact" of conventional understanding, it's quite a serious allegation, and therefore requires a reference to support it. Please do not restore it to the article without providing a citation. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 20:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's been restored, with a citation. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 02:52, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removing Image[edit]

The main image for this article is irrelevant to the conference and somewhat pov in that it tries to evoke sympathy for refugees. Are there any more pertinent images out there? 144.118.58.174 (talk) 23:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The image is relevant. The largest number of refugees admitted anywhere were the children depicted who were taken in by Britain. Telaviv1 (talk) 12:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

what I find hard to take[edit]

What I find hard to swallow is the table with the list of all the delegates and their flags and so forth. All so fine official & important-looking. They did nothing. In part because of their inaction, some six million Jews were allowed to be murdered in the most brutal and degrading fashion. I have made some changes and hope to make more, but that damned fancy list takes up 3/4 of the article. It kind of sickens to look at it. Bloody bunch of hypocrites, all of them - except possibly for the Dominican Republic, though nothing ultimately came of that offer either. Miamosa (talk) 06:37, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's exactly the point. We know who was there and did nothing. Those no-doers usually try to hide and blame others, but we know better, reading the table. (I disagree about the Dominican Republic, several hundreds of Jews went there, and thus were saved.) That the table has become as fancy as it is now (it was originally just a list), is caused by users who suffer from decoration-mania. this causes a lot of problems in other articles too, but we can do nothing against it without disrupting the whole Wikipedia... Kraxler (talk) 01:01, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's not true either. Britain itself took in 50,000 Jewish refugees by September 1939 including Sigmund Freud and the Kindertransport children. Zionists tend to ignore this help, as the British allowed few to emigrate to Palestine because of the ongoing Arab revolt. By the time of Evian the participants wanted small numbers of rich Jews. Yes, it's "hard to take", but how many of us would want to take in millions of refugees today from Assad's Syria? Not Israel anyway...86.42.223.71 (talk) 22:00, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

THERE ARE NO REFUGEES FROM SYRIA , THESE ARE ALL MUSLIMS WHO ARE PARTICIPATING AND SUPPORTING THE MAYHEM GOING ON THERE , GET YOUR FACTS STRIAGHT BEFORE YOU POST FALSE REMARKS PLEASE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.207.234 (talk) 19:13, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As of 2017, looking at Refugees of the Syrian Civil War, Israel will take 100 children from the 5m+ refugees, and has dealt with many more hospital cases. The argument is not identical with Germany in the 1930s, as there was a hostile regime but not yet a direct threat to life. It can be argued that Israel is not any more welcoming than the states conferring in 1938; not worse, not better.78.16.38.202 (talk) 11:39, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Holocaust[edit]

I'm pretty surprised this isn't part of Wikipedia's Holocaust or Jewish projects. I'll add it and people can discuss.QuizzicalBee (talk) 20:13, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation Guide[edit]

How does one pronounce Evian with the accented e?TheThomas (talk) 18:55, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Évian is pronounced like this: three syllables, the first is like the "ay" in the word "day" (or like the name of the letter A), the second is like the "vi" in the word "heavier" (or the name of the letter V, but short), the third (and last) is the stressed syllable and consists of a nasalized a. This last sound doesn't exist in English, and is difficult to pronounce for English-speakers. Overall, it comes out very much like the English word "avian", I suppose, but in French the stress is at the end. See phonetic-alphabet renderings at Evian water or Évian-les-Bains. Kraxler (talk) 01:37, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Background Figures[edit]

The figures for the Jewish population of Germany in the background section seem off. The section says that 450,000 of 900,000 Jews had left Germany by 1938. Other articles, however, say that the Jewish population of Germany in the 1930s was a bit over 500,000, and that about 250,000 had emigrated by the start of World War II. So it looks like either the numbers in this article have been doubled, or something else is being counted (perhaps Austria's and Czechoslovakia's Jewish population, but they seem to be treated separately in the background section).Konchevnik81 (talk) 01:31, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RfC[edit]

Light bulb iconBAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:42, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RfC about edit re Jews choosing not to go to the DR or Costa Rica[edit]

I don't want to break the revert rules, but the statement "...the Jews decided to stay in Nazi Germany rather than go to either the Dominican Republic or Costa Rica..." is a strong allegation that needs a source. I removed it as unsourced, and was reverted. I'd love to see discussion as to whether this edit can be rolled back again.

Diff: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%C3%89vian_Conference&type=revision&diff=786917066&oldid=786523503

Kschlot1 (talk) 15:15, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep but reference Seems there was plenty of references regarding the statement of objection.

[1]

[2]

  1. ^ Francis R. Nicosia; David Scrase (15 July 2013). Jewish Life In Nazi Germany: Dilemmas and Responses. Berghahn Books. p. 119. ISBN 978-0-85745-817-9. Retrieved 23 June 2017.
  2. ^ W.D. Rubinstein (22 January 2002). The Myth of Rescue: Why the Democracies Could Not Have Saved More Jews from the Nazis. Routledge. p. 22. ISBN 978-1-134-61568-1. Retrieved 23 June 2017.

Most seems to believe the situation was temporary and it would stabalize and as such in the interwar period and leading up to the start of the war, only a minority left, which possibly goes against perceived wisdom. You would think everybody would want to flee. It was a big country, Kristallnacht only happened on one city, so the patchy nature of Nazi aggression at the beginning, led a lot of Jews to believe, perhaps because it was happening hundreds of miles away, that the situation wasn't quite as bad as was reported, and the situation might stabilize. It only seemed to be only particular groups of Jews that were targeted initially, like Zionists, which may have given a false indication of safety. Also it very expensive to move, after the hyper inflation destroyed savings. scope_creep (talk) 15:26, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. As worded, it's an absurd statement, giving the impression that all Jews in Germany were fully aware of all relevant information, and made a joint decision to remain there. Maproom (talk) 07:23, 27 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Agree with Maproom also Scope creep sources don't talk specifically about Costa-Rica anyhow--Shrike (talk) 05:23, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you are so ignorant about this topic that you believe that Kristallnacht only happened in one city then please refrain from editing it. Telaviv1 (talk) 10:49, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Golda Meir[edit]

The 24 voluntary organizations present were all observers. Only countries were attendees. Golda Meir, "the attendee from British Mandate Palestine", "was not permitted to speak or to participate in the proceedings except as an observer". Of course, why state the obvious? She was not a national representative. I suggest deleting the sentence, or changing it to simply "Attendees included Golda Meir, as a representative of British Mandate Palestine".125.236.202.112 (talk) 23:01, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think that more importantly, since the article references Meir quite a bit, it should state what was Meir's (and the Jewish Agency's) position. Their position was hostility to the conference as they perceived any solution involving settlement of Jews in other countries as undermining Jewish migration to Palestine.--Exjerusalemite (talk) 07:33, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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RfC Redux about edit re Jews choosing not to go to the DR or Costa Rica[edit]

A series of IPs, likely the same person, is again focused on placing undue weight on the Dominican Republic offering to take some German-Jewish refugees. When RFCed before, the consensus was delete. The IP(s) again added that info to the head, which I reverted per the consensus. The IP(s) then rolled that back, and left a rather nasty message on my talk page. The repeated attempt here to insinuate that German Jews chose not to leave because, per the IP(s), they "had their noses stuck up in the air and thought that they should have been offered better accomodation" [2] bears more than a whiff of anti-Semitism. The reliable sources are clear -- the Evian conference was a failure, and as the 1930s progressed emigration by German Jews was more and more difficult. I won't break 3RR here, but would request that the DR and Costa Rica be removed from the head and the consequences, as it is already addressed in the Proceedings section. Kschlot1 (talk) 14:51, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong hotel photo (not Royal Hotel)[edit]

The photo on the page is not of the Royal Hotel, where the Evian Conference was held. It is a photo of the nearby Hotel Ermitage. The photo must therefore be replaced. Nick3333333 (talk) 12:43, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Democracy, Christianity and Failure[edit]

It seems that democratic countries were hoping too much for the success of the League of Nations in preserving peace, than in preventing war. Most discussions around world war two and the holocaust, fail to refer to the Christian Bible and its roots in Israel and the Jewish Bible. Hatred and Fear against communism in the Soviet Union may have been the underlying problems and failures that led to this blindness and lameness. JohnEC Jr (talk) 03:32, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Factual figures[edit]

The article states: "by 1938, some 450,000 of about 900,000 German Jews were expelled or fled Germany". These figures are not true nor are they supported by German government statistics. The Encyclopaedia Britannica Year Book for 1938 contains accurate information of the "Distribution of the Jewish Race" across the world (p.354-6) in large tables, with notes. In 1933 Census gave 503,720 Jews in Germany (including the Saar). Since that census, the year Books states "till the end of 1937 about 110,000 Jews have left Germany, plus there was a natural decrease of about 25,000." The estimated number of Jews in Germany at the end of 1937 was 365,000 with considerable emigration continuing. 2A00:23C4:B617:7D01:CD52:F16C:37DA:D364 (talk) 11:03, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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