Talk:Łasków and Szychowice massacres

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Verification needed / reliability[edit]

I am concerned about sourcing in the aftermath (about civilian deaths). Most of the sources are not online, some are not in English. What makes them reliable? Some seem to be primary, which raises concerns of WP:OR ("Library and Archives Canada, Volodymyr Kubijowich Fond, Box 25, File 17"). The English source cited and linked to Google Books [1] does not seem to mention the village of Łasków (at least my GBooks query inside the book returns no hits). The cited page (194) is just the end of footnote list is not useful: [2]. @Dreamcatcher25 @Olek Novy @Marcelus _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:43, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because you can't view the page where it mentions Lasków and Szychowice. Olek Novy (talk) 06:36, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The cited page 194 does not mention either. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:47, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not particularly familiar with the history of Polish-Ukrainian conflicts, thus I won't be much of help. However, the fact that the source is not in English, and not online, doesn't make it unreliable. I would rather focus on the authors (are they professional historians etc.) and publisher (is it reliable and respected etc.).Dreamcatcher25 (talk) 08:05, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Olek Novy@Piotrus There is an article in Polish, in INR journal, about the activities of Stanisław Basaj (Mariusz Zajączkowski. „Legenda w najlepszym wypadku…”. Kilka uwag na marginesie wojennych losów Stanisława Basaja „Rysia”. „Pamięć i Sprawiedliwość”. 1 (29), 2017). It is available online, you can easily find it. Łasków and Szychowice massacres is descripted at pages 466-469. I believe it may be of use. The author generally agree that most of the victims were unarmed Ukrainian civilians.Dreamcatcher25 (talk) 13:29, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I think this may be saved with better sources, but I am quite concerned about footnote 13, that looks like WP:PRIMARY/WP:OR - archival queries? "Library and Archives Canada, Volodymyr Kubijowich Fond, Box 25, File 17, Verzeichnis der ermordeten Ukrainer (-inen) im Kreiss Hrubieszow vom 11.III.1944 bis heute, [1944], brak paginacji; М. Горний, Пом’яник українців Холмщини і Підляшшя за 1941-1947 роки, Львів 2009, с. 141-146; М. Горний, Трагедія українських сіл Холмщини 1943-1944 рр. або розстріляний фенікс, Львів 2007, с. 153-254." Each of those needs to be split into its own footnote, discussed as to its reliability, and we need to be clear what information is sourced to each of those. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:11, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the first of them clearly indicates a primary source...Dreamcatcher25 (talk) 10:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Piotrus, @Dreamcatcher25: I removed unreliable sources and added some new info and verified the rest, basing on Mariusz Zajączkowski writings, who is certainly the prime authority on this subject. Obviously we can't reference directly primary sources and certainly not anything written by Volodymyr Kubijovyč Marcelus (talk) 23:33, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source request[edit]

@Olek Novy can you please provide scan of the page of Bożyk book reference you added in this edit? I don't have access to it, frankly I cannot really identify such book. Marcelus (talk) 12:10, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here: [3] Olek Novy (talk) 14:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure?

1. It's not a book, but an article

2. It's from 2008, not from 2007

3. You referenced page 172, article is on pages 191-206

Also you wrote: According to Bożyk 1,500 Ukrainians were killed that day [10 March 1944]. In contrast, the article states: During the Polish offensive, more than 20 villages were burned and about 1,500 Ukrainians were killed with minimal losses of their own, that is, during the entire Hrubieszów revolution (page 204). Marcelus (talk) 14:42, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Olek Novy can you answer that? Marcelus (talk) 22:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He means about the Polish offensive on March 10th and March 16th. Olek Novy (talk) 09:20, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So not on March 10th; so the content you added is misleading. Marcelus (talk) 10:49, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]