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Talk:1901 Boston Marathon

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 01:12, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ronald McDonald
Ronald McDonald
Mounted police clearing the way at the 1901 Boston Marathon
Mounted police clearing the way at the 1901 Boston Marathon
Created by Habst (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Habst (talk) 20:44, 17 April 2024 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: None required.

Overall: Nice work @Habst:. The only issue is that there needs to be a citation at the end of the following paragraph: As the race advanced through Framingham and Natick, Hughson had built up a lead but was still closely tailed by Caffrey. 45 minutes in, Hughson passed the Natick town hall about 100 yards (91 m) ahead of Caffrey. McDonald at this point was 75 yards (69 m) behind Caffrey, and Sammy Mellor and Davis were running in fourth and fifth 1⁄3 mile (0.54 km) behind McDonald. (Every paragraph needs to have a citation for DYK). BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BeanieFan11,  Done the citation, thank you. --Habst (talk) 12:23, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good to go, BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:40, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Habst ALT1 is ineligible, as the source does not say that the young man had "bad odor", but rather that he "would have been in bad odor [i.e. in a pickle] had the officials unearthed him". You'll want to correct the article too. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:20, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AirshipJungleman29, thank you so much for the info, I have struck ALT1 and corrected the article. Thanks for teaching me about in bad odor as well. --Habst (talk) 19:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discrepancy?[edit]

Cool article ~ fascinating. A possible discrepancy, though, that i can't correct because i'm not sure of the facts: Is there one man Caffrey, or are there two? He is called (and wlinked) John P. Caffrey in the lead, then a John J. Caffrey takes an early lead, then Caffrey runs all through, until a quote from the Buffalo Courier calls him J. J. Caffrey and the picture from the Boston Globe by that quote calls him John J. Caffrey again. If he's one man, the initials need to be cleared up, if there were two of them that needs to be clearer. Happy days, ~ LindsayHello 05:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@LindsayH, thanks for pointing this out. All those names should refer to one person. Based on the article Jack Caffery (runner), it appears his name is John Peter Caffery but he went by Jack Caffrey. That would make sense with all of the listed names except for "J. J. Caffery", which I suspect is a mistake because the Buffalo Courier spelled his surname incorrectly as well. His last name seems to be spelled variously "Caffrey" and "Caffery".
I've changed all names to refer to "Jack Caffery", his Wikipedia name, in the mean time. --Habst (talk) 12:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:1901 Boston Marathon/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Habst (talk · contribs) 22:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 00:45, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]


I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:45, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • For File:MacDonald-Evan Nappen,Esq. Collection.jpg, what is the source? It says "Beckford Photo 1898" but I don't know what that means. If it was published in 1898 it should have a "PD-US-expired" tag like the other photos, but it has a tag implying it was released into the public domain, which in turn implies and was not published at that time.
  • What makes arrs.run a reliable source? Per this page it's volunteer-run; does it get treated as reliable by other reliable sources, such as newspapers or race organizations?
  • Similarly, what makes athleticspodium.com a reliable source? Per this page it looks like it's a one-man operation, and he says he sometimes gets his results from Wikipedia, which is not a good sign.

I'll do spotchecks next, probably later today. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Christie, thanks for doing this review.
  • I have updated the tag of File:MacDonald-Evan Nappen,Esq. Collection.jpg to say that its copyright has expired because according to the description it was published in 1898.
  • I think that Association of Road Racing Statisticians is a reliable source because it's been cited by other organizations like the Chicago Tribune, Runner's World, and AP News, as well as many others according to this search: "according to the association of road racing statisticians".
  • Athletics Podium is a newer endeavor, but I think its recap of the 1901 Boston Marathon is still suitable for sourcing. Also I read the line about Wikipedia in the "About" page differently. The sentence is It’s really hard to find proper information, even from the official websites or Wikipedia, which is the ‘shortest way’ to have results. and the context is it's in a paragraph justifying the existence of the site – it never says that data is sourced from Wikipedia, in fact it says the opposite, that Wikipedia is a bad source for results and that's why he made the website. It's created by the Turkish sports journalist Şevket Furkan Erbay who has worked at several different traditional media outlets in the past to establish his credibility. It's also not a one-man operation as there are at least five editors and two verifiers according to the list of contributors.
I'll go through the spot checks next, thanks again for your thorough review. --Habst (talk) 14:33, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks. Footnotes refer to this version.

  • FN 1 cites "There was little course control, as according to the Globe "hundreds" of bicyclists tailed the leading runners encumbered by automobiles, motor carriages, equipages, equestrians and children." The source has "While hundreds of bicyclists followed the runners up to this point the "gallery" was greatly augmented by automobiles, motor carriages, stylish equipages, equestrians and youngsters". This is too closely paraphrased; see WP:CLOP. I think just making it "cars, horses, and children" would be enough.
  • FN 1 cites "Davis began to speed up, taking advantage of an incline on Cedar Street in West Newton to pass Crimmins and eventually Hughson." Verified.
  • FN 8 cites "Being a member of the Mohawk people, William Davis was the first indigenous American to medal at a Boston Marathon, finishing second behind his countryman Caffery. He went on to coach Tom Longboat, winner of the 1908 Boston Marathon." Verified.
  • FN 4 cites "Walter C. Kelly wrote in the Buffalo Courier, "The Marathon race of 1901 is a thing of the past. Like many other athletic events, it will now take its place in the annals of the athletic almanac. It will be forgotten, as athletic events are, but the performance of J. J. Caffery [sic] will long be remembered by the racing enthusiasts who long to see the runners reel off mile after mile until they have covered the quarter of a century"." Verified.
  • FN 1 cites "The race dynamic began to shift as the runners approached Wellesley. Caffery made his move and overtook Hughson on the Wellsley Hills steep incline. At this point a horse became frightened and ran into the street ahead of the runners, but a bicyclist grabbed the bridles and was able to stop the horse before any runners were injured" Verified.
  • FN 6 cites "With about five miles remaining, 1898 Boston Marathon champion Ronald MacDonald was about 90 seconds behind leader Jack Caffery, a distance which MacDonald thought he could easily make up. However, MacDonald began to tire after dabbing himself with what he thought was a water sponge, which he received from his brother via a mobile canteen driven by a bicycle rider." Verified.

After the first one came up with a minor issue I decided to check half a dozen to be on the safe side. They all came up clean, so once the close paraphrasing for the first one is first the spotcheck is passed.

I'll read through and add further comments, probably later today. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:30, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:

That's everything. OK on the source questions per your comments above -- I think there might be more questions if you were to take this to FAC, but for GA I think they're fine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:52, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Christie, thank you for the helpful review. I've addressed all the above spot-checks and comments. --Habst (talk) 20:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fixes look good; passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:20, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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