Talk:2007 Rugby World Cup squads

Simple lists or templates?

You can use this template to fill in the rosters... --necronudist 14:22, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

May I suggest that you use the french version (wikilink) to update the lists, today it is more complete (final Japanese team), tomorrow we will do the same if yours has more information. Dingy 23:58, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is very important to use the same template for each squad so that it looks neat and comparable. I've been looking at other World Cup squads pages - specifically the last Football World Cup and Cricket World Cup. I'm surprised to see also we don't have squad pages for previous Rugby WCs which I think need to be done at some point. Anyway, all of the squad pages seem to have a similar template with the following information that is relevant in rubgy: Squad number, name, date of birth, caps, club and club country. They also all have an outside link to each squad, whether this be from a national association website or a news site such as the BBC, and the date that the squad was issued and any subsequent updates due to injury, etc. I think we need all of this. I personally favour the simpler template necronudist suggested, but if people prefer the French version I'm sure somebody with more template skills than I can create a suitable version! For now, I'll start to update using the first one. Starfighter Pilot 14:18, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I was tryin' to work on it, but they're too difficult to find on the internet. It's crazy, but I've never found any website with all the rosters of all the nations of all the WCs...something that for soccer is EVERYWHERE, billions of websites. However, you can copy my sandbox's page and work on it and you can modify the template I've created in the way you prefer. I'm a rugby fan but not a rugby expert, so I tried to do something but I think you'd do it better! --necronudist 14:59, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That looks really good! I've just done the Namibians (have to start somewhere...) and I think it'll work but I'll borrow your table as it seems to look a lot better with the positions notations in particular. It looks a lot easier to show the nationality of the club as well. Thanks a lot! Starfighter Pilot 15:56, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome! However the table is based on this soccer template. I've just fixed a couple of things. Hope you'll find the lost 1987-1991-1995 rosters, I haven't found'em anywhere! --necronudist 16:14, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have links to the Wales squads for all the previous World Cups if they would be of any help. - PeeJay 19:30, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The RWC03 site still has squads from the last one. Starfighter Pilot 18:16, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PeeJay2K3 should discuss if he wants to use a different template before editing...or we'll do the same things 500 times! However I really like the Wales style, but the roles can be abbreviated (like in the "standard" template) and the squads needs AT LEAST the DoB and the club's nation (caps can be omitted, I think). What's the solution? --necronudist 18:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just copied the table that was already being used on the Wales national rugby union team page. I didn't think it would cause a debate like this! I agree that caps can be omitted from the template. The most important information is the player's name, his regular position and his club. I don't think the player's DOB is that essential though, and the nation the player's club is in should only be mentioned when he plays in a different country to the one he plays for. - PeeJay 19:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's just to avoid doing the same thing (organizing the rosters) in different ways. You haven't done anything reprehensible :) However, I don't agree with DoB, but I can agree with club's nation. I think we should decide if we want to use a soccer-like template (see WC squads) or we want to create/use a brand new template. I'm open for both. Let's wait for Starfighter opinion. --necronudist 19:16, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think both caps and DOB are useful as it shows (or at least implies) the experience at international and domestic level respectively. I would agree the latter is most useful though, not to mention easier to find! We don't necessarily need club country but I guess it looks pretty. I think we ought to either have it for all of the clubs or none of them though rather than just the ones that are not from a specific player's nation as I think that would look better. As for which template, well, I'd favour the one I've been using if just for the selfish reason that it's been used for more than half the squads already! If others would prefer the new one though then be my guest! :) Starfighter Pilot 19:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, so I think it would be better to keep using this template for now, and then think about creatin' a new one. Also, the rugby wikiproject should be involved in the issue. --necronudist 20:53, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

is the club important ? not at all in this competition (some players will move to a new team just after the competition, which one do you consider ?), what matters is the quality of the individual and his capability to play in a national team. Does his DoB matter ? not at all, the player can be 20 or 35 years old , who cares. Taking this into account, other wiki projects made their presentation in a different way : CM 2007 teams - Dingy 01:32, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Dingy. I think that the formats for squads used for All Blacks#Current squad, France national rugby union team#Current squad, England national rugby union team#Current squad and Wales national rugby union team#Current squad is quite good. There are several reasons:

It has the important information, their club/province/franchise (it would differ between countries, as each is different) and their major position.
The dates of birth aren't important, their caps would be a disaster because they would need to be continually updated, and country flags for clubs or teams can be redundant.
We can copy/paste from country articles (which have an accepted format) which will save everyone time and hassle.

Any comments? I think the main thing is that it's consistent between teams (except the heading of club, province etc). - Shudde ^talk 02:01, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Come to think of it. I now think Dingy was completely right! The way they have done it one the French page is nice and simple. Gives you the information you need (and it won't go out of date because clubs/caps aren't listed) and also mentions the coach, and any reserves if there are some. The information is concise and well laid out. I think we should do it a nice simple way like that. - Shudde ^talk 07:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

is the club important ? not at all in this competition (some players will move to a new team just after the competition, which one do you consider ?)

Common standard in sports is to consider the last team a player played for in the last season before the WC. This isn't a problem.

Does his DoB matter ? not at all, the player can be 20 or 35 years old , who cares.

This is totally crazy...

The dates of birth aren't important, their caps would be a disaster because they would need to be continually updated, and country flags for clubs or teams can be redundant.

Obviously caps are updated at the beginning of the WC...so should we update every squad of every player? Maybe we should make the 1987 squads table and then in the club write "retired" for all. =_= please... This isn't a problem, too.

I think you haven't any past experience in making a squad list (or maybe you haven't learned anything).

(and it won't go out of date because clubs/caps aren't listed)

As you can see above, going out of date is not a risk of the "standard" template. --necronudist 08:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

your answers are ridiculous, two years of experience in this field. If somebody wants to know the DoB and the club he just has to click on the name. "or maybe you haven't learned anything" : you must be kidding, never critize people you don't know, other contributors know better and avoid these remarks. Dingy 10:38, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think DOB in particular is essential. Surely it's highly useful to know that Dallaglio is 35 compared to Easter's 28/29 considering the level of debate over the former's inclusion for instance; also for positions such as wing where speed is a crucial weapon it is surely very useful to know who is getting on a bit and maybe has lost that extra yard as opposed to new players. And what if those many players for whom we do not have player articles - how do we compare the USA's flankers, for instance? Caps are indeed generally for the start of the WC, so would include all the warm-up games but that's all. I think maybe we should make that clear at the start of the article. I wasn't sure about clubs, so we need to make that clear to - I've been a little inconsistant there thinking about it! Alternatively, could we include both clubs if there is a move underway, with Paterson's being Edinburgh/Gloucester for example? I think so long as it's useful and interesting without being cluttered it's fine - would this option make it too cluttered? It may just be me being a sad rugby geek, but I find all the information there interesting and useful! One thing I would say the "alternative" template has over the "standard" is that it allows players who are capable at multiple positions to be clear - it tells us Gareth Thomas plays at Centre and Full-back for instance whereas we have to specify only one position in the other one. Is there any way of altering this in the "standard"? Starfighter Pilot 11:06, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure there is. However, you can write (in the Paterson's example) Gloucester with a note, like in the soccer's WCs. He indeed earned the cap with the Gloucester shirt. --necronudist 11:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I take offence some of your comments Necronudist. I have assembled squad lists before (see All Blacks#Current squad, France national rugby union team#Current squad, England national rugby union team#Current squad) and think that your arguments are weak. Caps are a pain because they go out of date quickly, on top of that, they don't mean much anymore. If you play five mins at the end of a game then you get a cap. You can have ten caps and have not started a Test! As for age the same thing applies. Doesn't mean anything. You cannot make any confident assumptions based on age or number of caps. It's redundant information, and if someone desperately wants it then they can click on the person's article. As for clubs or team. I don't mind if thats included but don't consider it essential. Having a paragraph at the beginning explaining the weakness of this list (that the caps and club information may be out of date) won't make up for the problems unfortunately. We are not trying to be a carbon-copy of the soccer list, what they think is important and what we think is important can be different. We don't want a 126kb page like the soccer one! See WP:SIZE, we should aim for something concise. I think the question we need to ask is what is necessary and what is not? Caps and DOB are not in my opinion. - Shudde ^talk 00:10, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I take offence that you don't want to understand. You keep sayin' "out of date", when it's obvious that infos are updated at the beginning of the competition, like in websites, magazines, newspapers... as is usually done EVERYWHERE. However, I quit. Keep discussing without me. --necronudist 08:12, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A full list of squads can be found at the Telegraph website. I note it's not full of miscellaneous information. - Shudde ^talk 01:43, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Among the many differences with soccer, up to 7 replacements are allowed during a game, for that reason age is not a factor, it allows "older" player like Dall'Oglio or Pelous to play at the highest level, even though it is only during 50 minutes or so. I therefore agree with Shudde, stop copying what was done for the soccer world cup and think about what is relevant for rugby. Dingy 02:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but it does mean that Dallaglio will only play for the last twenty or thirty minutes of a game rather than being in every minute of every game. This is something a date of birth will strongly imply therefore making it a useful piece of information and relevant to the sport. The telegraph website that Shudde has provided tells us nothing except for who a player plays for and whether he is in the front eight or back seven. I honestly don't think this is enough. Similarly with club - I've just discovered whilst doing Portugals that one of their players has gone to Munster. This surely suggests that he is a very good prospect, by far the best in his team and with the potential to hold his own against his opposite number in any other team making this information interesting, useful and relevant for rugby. Starfighter Pilot 12:37, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

just click on Lawrence Dallaglio and you will know his age. Dingy 15:05, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not for Mosese Moala, you can't. Starfighter Pilot 15:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

create the article then, a stub in a first stage~, that will be useful even after the world cup. Dingy 00:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Age and caps tell you nothing. The club is certainly more important. If someone is older and has lots of caps for Canada doesn't mean they are near the same ability as someone who only has a few caps for France. It's like comparing apples and oranges. - Shudde ^talk 23:57, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but you're not just using age and cap data, though, are you? You're also using nationality which we have on the table. Of course a 75-capped 32 year old Canadian is likely to be less skillful than a French 28 year old with 2. But a 32-year-old Canadian with 50 caps is likely to be more skillful consistant than a 26 year old Canadian with 8 caps, something just nationality will not tell you. Starfighter Pilot 18:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also instead of giving unnecessary details, it would be preferable to explain that Sylvain Marconnet is currently injured (he has the highest number of caps for a prop in France) and could be replaced by Nicolas Mas, a decision will be made on August 31st. Dingy 02:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely we need that information, yes. We need a source though, really. :) Starfighter Pilot 18:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

here is the source (in french) : Marconnet attendra, rugbyrama.fr and (in english) Rugby: France delay decision on Marconnet, nzherald.co.nz. Dingy 23:51, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Shudde in that I believe age is not necessary. However, caps as of the start of the tournament would be a nice addition to the squad lists. Therefore, I believe the only things that need including are Name, Position, Club and Caps (as of tournament start). - PeeJay 19:52, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Netani Talei is listed here as a Doncaster player. On the Worcester Warriors page he is listed as a Worcester player and Donny fans on National League Rugby Discussion pages on at rolling maul.con agree he is moving there - but he is not listed on the Worcester Warriors squad on their web pages - presumably he does not join until after the cup. Not sure where to make the edit or not. Arachrah 17:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Squads are as of the 2006-07 season. For summer transfers you can add a note. --necronudist 18:42, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Necessary update

I won't touch the article in its present form, so this another necessary update : Carlo Del Fava is forced out of the World Cup due to knee injury : Del Fava forced out of World Cup, planetrugby.com, august 17 2007. Dingy 03:29, 18 August 2007 (UTC)|[reply]

I did wonder why you didn't just update them yourself! :D Ah well, I guess being a three-year-old is better than just that you couldn't be bothered. Del Fava and Marconnet information now added. Starfighter Pilot 12:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

no two years old and I speak a foreign language already. Dingy 12:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PS : France - England : 22-9

Tell me about it! Honestly, I'd be surprised if we made the semi-finals! Starfighter Pilot 17:49, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[reply]

Tonga Official Squad

This is the official squad of Tonga, according to the 2007 Rugby World Cup Official Site : [1] It as 31 players, instead of 29. I changed the squad according with the Official Site.85.242.236.45 (talk) 15:02, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Georgia Official Squad

The official site of the 2007 Rugby World Cup shows 31 players: [2]. I am adding the missing player.85.242.237.139 (talk) 00:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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