Talk:2011 Grand Rapids shootings

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On 27 April 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2011 Grand Rapids mass murder to 2011 Grand Rapids shootings. The result of the discussion was moved.

Race of the perpetrator[edit]

Rodrick Dantzler is black

Why this information isn't included in the article?

Is it necessary? --Cary (talk) 11:51, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If on Barack Obama's wikipedia page the second sentence contains the information that he is afro american then I would say, this is important. And note that here we don't have a photo of him, so reading only the article we can't get this information that he is black. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.0.92.40 (talk) 12:14, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this is a free encyclopedia, so you can add that information yourself. Remember: Wikipedia:Citing sources --Cary (talk) 12:25, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Barack Obama's race is historically noteworthy; Rodrick Dantzler's is not (nor are his victims'). -Jason A. Quest (talk) 01:03, 10 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually it is significant and noteworthy that Dantzler is an African American as Dantzler is a German name and this helps to disambiguate the article. 130.49.143.77 (talk) 16:28, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The crime has not been reported to have a racial component, so the races of the people involved are not significant or noteworthy. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 19:58, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 April 2021[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 06:05, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Grand Rapids mass murder → 2011 Grand Rapids shootings – In the current title, the use of "mass murder" implies there was only one crime scene involved, which is obviously untrue judging by the details of the actual crime. Plus, it doesn't accurately reflect the fact that it was a shooting spree targeting several individuals. This aligns with the title of similar articles such as 2016 Kalamazoo shootings. Love of Corey (talk) 20:17, 27 April 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. SITH (talk) 00:15, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - I disagree that "mass murder" implies only one crime scene, and am unsure how you reached that conclusion. There are a variety of page title formats on Wikipedia surrounding events like these, including 'mass murder,' 'murders,' 'mass shooting,' 'shooting,' and 'massacre.' In this case, the RSs are calling it a mass murder much more frequently than a shooting ("mass murder" 11 times in the titles of sources cited, vs 1 for "shooting"). "Mass Murder" qualifies for WP:COMMONNAME; "shooting" does not. Combefere ❯❯❯ Talk 21:01, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See the mass murder article. "A mass murder typically occurs in a single location where one or more people kill several others." That's where I got it from. Love of Corey (talk) 06:46, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

However, in Talk:Mass_murder/Archive_1 there are several discussions around this definition, so it is not a universally accepted definition. Needs to be some further consideration of this, maybe via WP:Wikiproject Death. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:51, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The proposed name is more consistent with Category:2011 mass shootings in the United States. Also, it's not clear there's a basis to call this "murder", as there was never a conviction. Obviously difficult in a situation where the perpetrator was killed, but that's the usual convention I believe. — Amakuru (talk) 10:59, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: while what RS call it always takes primacy (e.g. Columbine High School massacre) I'd be remiss if I didn't mention WP:KILLINGS would probably come in handy here. SITH (talk) 00:15, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:KILLINGS focuses on the killings of individuals it seems rather than multiple murders. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 18:53, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reminding to take a look at the article's sources, @StraussInTheHouse:; I'm avoiding looking at multiple sources from the same author below, unless they are separated by a long time.... This particular article suffers from not having much other than local coverage.

Agar, John (July 9, 2011) ... uses "Grand Rapids murder spree" in new article title, and "deadliest killing spree" and "Grand Rapids mass murder" in the article.
Hendrix et al (July 7, 2011) - avoided labeling the event.
Schieber and Kelso (July 7, 2011) - "allegedly continued his violent rampage"
Murray (July 7, 2011) - "Grand Rapids mass murder suspect"; "that the mass murder"
Staff BBC News (July 8, 2011) - "where the fatal shootings happened"; "knew nothing of the shootings"
Staff Agence France-Presse (July 8, 2011) - "Gunman kills seven in Michigan rampage"; "suspected of fatally shooting seven"; "carried out a shooting rampage at two";
NBC News (July 8, 2011) - refers to it as a rampage
Jaccarino and Siemaszko (July 8, 2011) - "The Michigan madman who massacred seven people"

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 19:50, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom and Amakuru – a more objective and consistent title. — BarrelProof (talk) 05:28, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.