Talk:2017 Temple Mount crisis

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July 2017 Petah Tikva attack was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 1 August 2017 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into 2017 Temple Mount crisis. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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What exactly is the "crisis"?[edit]

It is unclear from the page what the "crisis" is about. The placing of the metal detectors? The refusal of the Muslims to pray in the Mount? The cameras? I think you should decide and emphasize it in the article.

The cause and aims here are very POVish (and would also include a terror attack on the mount). What is clear in terms of Wiki's voice is that there is a local (and to some degree with regional involvement) crisis regarding the mount - which has led to riots, terror attacks, and a number of deaths. We could perhaps state the positions of all sides, but I wouldn't strive to attribute anything in Wiki's voice regarding the "why and about".Icewhiz (talk) 08:51, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Probably a more appropriate title would be 2017 Temple Mount unrest, similar to 2014 Jerusalem unrest - Galatz ^Talk 11:32, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There is a constant state of unrest in this region. I think "crisis" is more appropriate. The crisis started when Israeli guards were shot on the Temple Mount. and can you please sign your name?!--Jane955 (talk) 13:13, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry i forgot to sign mine, but I am not the original poster who left it unsigned - Galatz ^Talk 14:04, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

ok, thanks for clarifying this. As you can see today, things are escalating and look more like a crisis, although Israelis will probably use other terms to describe the violent uprising.--Jane955 (talk) 17:35, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As an Israeli, The crisis is mainly the violent uprising against Israeli guards and soldiers, but it also includes terror attack which influenced by the "acts harming Al-Aqsa" as the Palestinian narrative says.

About the term "Crisis" - It is very accurate, each news program opens with the title "Crisis in Temple Mount" or "Tension in Temple Mount", you should search for "המשבר בהר הבית" in Google, which is the translation of "Temple Mount crisis"

In fact, there is a discussion in the Israeli Wikipedia about changing the name of the article to "Temple Mount crisis" because right now the name is "Temple Mount Clashes"

Another fact - There is a discussion in Israel between rightists and leftists if the recent terror attacks, (let say the horrific massacre in Halamish) were caused by the installation of the metal detectors, or that we should stop giving excuses for brainwashed terrorists that slaughter men women and children since 1987, exactly like we won't search for excuses for why ISIS terrorists in Paris, London, Brussels, New York City, or Orlando Doodoo Bo (talk) 21:33, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Let's not push this into the area where WP:NOTAFORUM applies. - SantiLak (talk) 21:44, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Doodoo, interesting...it is true. Israelis like the term משבר, but if it goes on long enough it might be another intifada? It is an interesting debate about the metal detectors... Has anyone mentioned the UNESCO desicion on Israeli wikipedia?--Jane955 (talk) 02:09, 29 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I dont really belive in the word intifada, they said it in the media last time about October 2015 and it didnt really worked... But we do see terror attacks on July more than on any other month in 2017... right now it seems we are going towards the end of this wave of violence - The police expected for a day of rage at Friday and it didnt happened. About the UNESCO decision about Hebron, surprisingly there is no article about it, it only mentioned [[1]] here Doodoo Bo (talk) 16:25, 29 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you are right. This is well written. The question is, whether UNESCO taking a more political role in the region; to define what belongs to who.(based on Arab countries' narrative) Was that one of the triggers for this crisis and can we mention it here?--Jane955 (talk) 17:46, 29 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It absolutely didn't, but it's a very good question though. On the contrary - UNESCO side with the Palestinians, they should celebrate it and not go rioting. The truth is the Muslim Palestinian doesn't care about UNESCO, neither about America's side in the conflict, or Europe's. They only care about what their Imam or Sheih told them in the mosque. If the Imam will tell them that metal detectors are a sign of sovereignty, and that Al-Aqsa is in danger, they could sacrifice their children for it. The angry mob doesn't have a real opinion about the conflict.

Just one more thing, today is Av 9th, Tisha BeAv, the memorial for the destruction of both First and Second Temple. Av is the 11th month of the Jewish calendar, so in Hebrew it is written 9/11 Doodoo Bo (talk) 03:00, 1 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That is true, the terrorist who stabbed the supermarket employee, a father of five, was fueled by incitment of his Imam or other PA/Hamas leaders. but who fuels these leaders/Imams and emboldens them? How is it that they can call for "a day of rage" and get away with it? Imagine if Bibi called for a "day of rage"? Jane955 (talk) 20:17, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New section[edit]

hi editors. What do you think of the new section "Reactions in the Arab World". just like in the Hebrew page 2017העימותים בהר הבית

I started with Jordan and the PA and will add the rest of the countries listed. The problem is that I don't have links to English articles.

The title in the article (that I borrowed from their page) is called "Disturbances in the Judea and Sameria". If you don't like it, then delete it but don't change it to "disturbances in the West bank".--Jane955 (talk) 19:52, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thats Hebrew WP, this is English, and here the WP:NPOV term used is West Bank. - Galatz ^Talk 14:50, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In English it is called Judea & Samaria. Are you saying that the Wikipedia page called "Judea and Samaria Area" should be renamed?--Jane955 (talk) 15:07, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, Judea and Samaria Area, as the article states is the Israeli administrative district. On the other hand West Bank is the geographic region. Since this is talking about the geographic region, not the administrative area, its West Bank. - Galatz ^Talk 15:28, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is definitely not true that Judea and Samaria is only an administrative district, but it is the real name of the geographic region you like to call "The West Bank". So if we speak about Arab riots in the sovereign territory of Israel, I expect you to use the proper name of this region Doodoo Bo (talk) 21:03, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The article title for the territory is the West Bank and except for inside of Israel, around the world it is referred to almost exclusively as the West Bank and not Judea and Samaria. Also please avoid pushing this into in WP:NOTAFORUM territory with your comments. - SantiLak (talk) 23:11, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So, I've been blocked from editing the page, even-though the most recent contributions were done by me? Do Santilak and Galatz even edit this page or are they here to implement the rules and "teach" us Hebrew? The last section should just be removed. You can't delete a paragraph and just leave the first sentence and obviously the people here are not planning to put any effort in writing this section.--Jane955 (talk) 03:51, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That paragraph was POV pushing and an editor pointed out that you could not be editing the page due to ARBPIA rules regarding edit count requirements so an admin protected that page. - SantiLak (talk) 04:08, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If we discussed it I could have explained. There are few important points to understand about Saudi Arabia: First- they themselves have metal detectors on their holy sites and that doesn't offend anyone. Second, they did not criticize Israel for setting up metal detectors. Third point: They do not mind Israel's sovereignty on the Temple Mount because they do not want the Hashamite kingdom to control the site. Because of their views they were the main negotiators during this crisis. They did want Israel however to open the site as soon as possible. I wrote that in the beginning. Could the paragraphs be improved? absolutely and I expected someone to help with that. Was it my opinion? I added the links, you could have looked it up. I just learned this and spent a few hours reading about the history btw the Hashamites and the Saudis. I am glad you feel the page is protected. Now delete all of my contributions including the last section "Arab countries reaction" and the sections: "Disturbances in the West Bank" and "Confrontations on the Gaza border". It goes against ARBPIA & POV pushing rules to keep those sections.--Jane955 (talk) 18:57, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]