Talk:2018 Paris knife attack

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2018 Paris knife attack article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard.

Crime and Criminal Biography Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

France: Paris High‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Paris task force.

Islam: Islam and Controversy Mid‑importance

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Islam and Controversy task force.

Terrorism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Terrorism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles on terrorism, individual terrorists, incidents and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TerrorismWikipedia:WikiProject TerrorismTemplate:WikiProject TerrorismTerrorism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Daily pageviews of this article

A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

Category[edit]

Here we go again. Why isn't there a category link for Islamic terrorism in France? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:CA70:6050:E464:1447:7A76:45D9 (talk) 11:59, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps in part due to the fact that it would then have to include former French Colonies perhaps like Syria, Lebanon, Algeria, Mali, etc, etc. Better work on improving the article than trying to oil the gears of catagorisation of crazy foreigners, or painting people with the same label brush. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.151.172 (talk) 13:55, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

French "intel" had him registered on a watchlist catagorised as file "S", and there are law-enforcement sources who have indicated this is a very broad scope, inclusive of LGBT-Incel at-risk persons. French culture is very protective of sexuality in public life, but in times of public security, such is normally disclosed, so it should be anticipated to be included in the article. Meow126.161.151.172 (talk) 18:23, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Contested deletion[edit]

I removed a bunch of nonsense, below. The proposed deletion was challenged by Zigzig20s, and that should have been enough: you, IP 90, had no valid reason for restoring it, but Number 57 declined it anyway. Now, there is no evidence yet of terrorism, and The Diaz and Hiddenstranger should really consider actually reading the rules for this encyclopedic website, so I removed those categories and claims. Drmies (talk) 00:05, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks. I'm actually quite content with the results, although still not entirely convinced that the whole affaire is notable enough for an encyclopedia article (wp:recentism, wp:NOTNEWS, attempts at propaganda by diverse political extremists and so on), and as Zigzig20s gave no actual explanation for the challenge to my proposal I felt rather justified in restoring it. (Also I'm a bit tired and emotional, so to speak.) My apologies for any troubles I caused. -90.179.120.43 (talk) 00:22, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the editor who deletes such a tag isn't really forced to give an explanation, and Zigzig, as far as I know, is no fool (I think they have turned into a fine editor). A7 has a really low bar, and so it makes sense that there's also a really low bar for declining. And in this case there's ample media coverage, so it was never going to be deleted, IMO--only after an AfD had run its course. (I speak from experience; this is not about my opinions on the world.) The only trouble you caused was an edit conflict--a minor edit, just when I was busy taking out the trash (you know what I mean). Anyway, thanks for the note. Please know that at least some of us take comments seriously and don't distinguish between IP editors and registered editors. I wish you a good evening and a restful night. Drmies (talk) 00:31, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your response. I do not know Zigzig20s (or other registered editors and their habits), and have rather vaguish notion of the proper Wikipedia procedures, so I kind of [over]reacted to the edit summary, which read "contest", not "decline" - i.e. I was kind of expecting some further explanation, and then I was rather enraged by other editors/IPs in the discussion. The rest is the [talk page] history, for which I feel (rather mildly) ashamed.

And thanks again - for your attitude towards unregistered editors, which is not entirely common here.

(And yes, I should perhaps really stop for now). -90.179.120.43 (talk) 01:04, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I should perhaps also suggest temporary semi-protection from unregistered and recently registered users - as the saying goes - if even for my own good, as I seem to be unable to leave this topic/page.--90.179.120.43 (talk) 01:21, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Location(s): Covered Market or Dining Area[edit]

This was not an "Opera" attack, as it brings to mind the 2002 Nord-Ost siege, and the LOCATION of the knifing spree was within a few hundred yards sprint of both the rue Saint-Augustin and Rue Mehul, with Rue Marsollier and Passage Choiseul thereabouts. The article should reflect a location, recommended are:

Rue Saint-Augustin/

is a street with several eateries, where police cordoned off a section at the "Bella Casa" Pizzeria.

There is also an Algerian Ferry office can be surveilled there, although the cordon was immideate to the covered market, north side.

Passage Choiseul/

is a covered market, but does have eateries also, for example, IDFoods and iLili`s are there, so it`s safe to suggest it is also an area famous for dining. It really is a covered market though.

Rue Marsollier/ Hotel Louvre Marsollier

is where the video footage of people frantically running (away?) from the threat. There is al-fresco dining at the southern end, connecting from Rue Mehul.

Rue Mehul/

is a road parallel to southern Passage Choiseul, which has eateries and a knife shop prominently displaying large knives, and is the corner depicted in the video from whence the frightened flew/fled. The video showed people running northward from Rue Mehul into Rue Marsollier.

All the above information is taken from the newsmedia reports, published maps, and newsmedia video coverage, and the article needs to be improved by using something of the above. Dining area simply doesn`t feel right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.182.210 (talk) 00:44, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, "ten minutes from the Opera" is a ridiculous location to propose. Drmies (talk) 01:01, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dual-Nationality, Bilingual suspect[edit]

Several newsmedia have reported that bystanders/victims of the incident could hear a non-French language being shouted, of middle-eastern origin. I guess that means either Hebrew or Arabic. There have not yet been any confirmed reports that the suspect was a holder of more than one passport (nationality?), so wikipedia tends to assume it was a native, in this case, French. Terror-squad is investigating this case because there was shouting in Hebrew or Arabic, so it`s safe to presume bilinguality at this point. Also, certain countries have laws forbidding dual-nationality, is that France too? In the case of the guy who knifed a woman reporter in the neck in Moscow, the media referred to him as a dual-national but not bilingual, but the French are more accepting of multiculturalism due to their colonial past, so it makes sense to include it in the article. Any news on that front? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.182.210 (talk) 01:58, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Police now say the guy was born in Chechnya. A French Chechen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.151.172 (talk) 10:09, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Soft or Hard Targets[edit]

Should we mention the targets, if the media releases it`s reports? It seems the knifeman chose a place with many Chinese and Korean restaurants nearby the IDFoods, but there is no reports of "Eurasian" or "Asian" names of victims, maybe he targeted others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.151.172 (talk) 10:17, 13 May 2018 (UTC) Several media reported that the killer had threatened to kill the police, so it was hard target as well as soft. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.151.172 (talk) 10:21, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

reports of killer being Mentally deranged and/or Drugged[edit]

There are several witness accounts that the killer was off his face. Also, police confirm he was hit with a tazer (a high voltage electric shock incapacitator), but it failed to subdue him. A "British" man outside a "British" pub confirmed that he had actually been shocked twice, but it didn`t even faze him at all, and he got one of the cops on his own, resulting in the police having to use lethal force with their sidearm. A Frenchman stated that he was clearly on drugs. He was also pictured topless. I hate to use stereotypes, but this attacker clearly seemed like a crazy foreigner on drugs. Perhaps a better term would be "unbalanced", no? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.161.151.172 (talk) 15:15, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The best term is the one you can attribute to a reliable source. I see "mad or drugged up" from "Jonathan", who may or may not be your "British" man. Depending what your "Frenchman" said, there shouldn't be an OR problem with a simple translation. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:06, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]