Talk:2019 El Paso shooting

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On 23 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to El Paso Walmart shooting. The result of the discussion was not moved.

In response to the request for images[edit]

This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived.

...I went out and took some pictures. You're welcome to add any you like to the article. Hopefully, they'll help spruce it up a little. TomStar81 (Talk) 05:53, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Victims list[edit]

@Love of Corey: WP:NOTMEMORIAL does not apply to edits in a page. It specifically says "Subjects of encyclopedia articles" - I am not creating individual articles about the deceased, so a victim's list in this article does not fall under WP:NOTMEMORIAL. See also, WP:NOTNOTMEMORIAL. Esb5415 (talk) 15:51, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

About the state charges[edit]

At the time of this writing, the "State charges"-section within the "Legal proceedings"-section says "On February 8, 2023, Crusius pleaded guilty and received 90 consecutive life sentences, one for each count in the indictment, which was, 45 counts of violating the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act and 45 counts of using a firearm during and in relation to crimes of violence.[83] This included state charges of 23 counts of capital murder.[84]". First off, at the time of this writing, when I click on the source cited for the "This included state charges of 23 counts of capital murder"-claim ([1]), some box appears, saying that the site is unavailable to European Union visitors. As a result, I cannot (at the time of this writing) use the source in question to verify whether the guilty plea in question really did include the state charges. Secondly, I have found a source from CNN which (in my opinion) indicates that the February 8, 2023 guilty plea did not include the state charges. At the time of this writing, the source in question says (and I qoute) "As the epidemic of mass shootings in America continues unabated, Crusius also faces state charges for the August 3, 2019, massacre that left almost two dozen people wounded. The slain included a 15-year-old soccer player and a 60-year-old Army veteran who would give "a meal and a home to anyone."

In that case, Texas prosecutors have said they plan to seek the death penalty. Crusius has pleaded not guilty to a state capital murder charge, and a trial has not been scheduled yet."

If the February 8, 2023 guilty plea included the state charges, why would this source say that Crusius "also faces state charges"?

Here is another source, from USA TODAY. At the time of this writing, this source says (and I qoute) "Patrick Crusius, 24, pleaded guilty Wednesday to 90 charges in connection with the Aug. 3, 2019, mass shooting, one of the deadliest in U.S. history. He still faces a potential death sentence if he’s convicted on a state capital murder charge in the shooting that killed 23 people.". Why would this source say that Crusius "still faces a potential death sentence if he’s convicted on a state capital murder charge" if he has pleaded guilty to said state capital murder charges?

Here is another source, from El Paso Matters. At the time of this writing, this source says (and I qoute) "Crusius still faces state capital murder charges that could carry the death penalty". If Crusius has pleaded guilty to the state charges, why would this source say that Crusius "still faces state capital murder charges that could carry the death penalty"?

Here is another source, from The Washington Post. At the time of this writing, this source says (and I qoute) "Crusius is still facing state capital charges; he has pleaded not guilty, and a trial date has not yet been set. It is not clear how his guilty plea on the federal charges might affect the state case.".

As I (at the time of this writing) feel that these sources indicate that the February 8, 2023 guilty pleas did not include the state charges, I would like to question the truthfullness of the claim that the February 8, 2023 guilty pleas included the state charges. Heart of Destruction (talk) 12:50, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove "deadliest attack on Latinos in 3 years" from lead?[edit]

For some reason, the lead includes this oddity, claiming that this tragedy constituted the:

"…deadliest attack on Latinos in modern American history since the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting."

The fact that this attack had the highest number of Latino victims in the US in the prior three years hardly seems lead-worthy, does it? It's not much of a "record"—and I'd question whether it even belongs in the article body.

Look forward to thoughts—thanks! ElleTheBelle ElleTheBelle 12:55, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removed this, partly because it leads to a clunky looking sentence, but mainly because there is no evidence that Omar Mateen intended to kill Latinos in the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting. Pulse was hosting a Latin Night, but Mateen probably didn't know this and it was just a coincidence.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:11, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From 2019 El Paso shooting to 2019 El Paso mass murder?[edit]

There was a guilty conviction, can we change this article's title to mass murder now? Yousef Raz (talk) 04:44, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The only previous discussion on the title was Talk:2019 El Paso shooting/Archive 2#Time for a common name yet? where El Paso Walmart shooting was suggested. Kinda surprising; there are often long dramatic discussions about new article titles about major events. I also found in the article log an attempt to rename this to 2019 El Paso Massacre, but it was reverted immediately with no apparent discussion. Anyhow, I went thru a bunch of the citations, the info box, redirects, categories, and discussions to find potential descriptors that might be considered for the title. In no particular order I found "shooting", "mass shooting", "rampage", "attack", "mass murder", "massacre", "race massacre", "anti-immigration", "terrorist", "domestic terrorist", "hate crime", "racist", "Latino", "El Paso", "El Paso, Texas", "mall", "shopping-complex", "shopping center", "Walmart", "Cielo Vista Mall" and "2019". We also have to look at the policy in Wikipedia:Article titles (WP:CRITERIA, WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NAMECHANGES, etc). After all that, I found I like the title as is, but I would not oppose 2019 El Paso mass shooting. I prefer letting the reader decide for themselves how to classify these events in their own mind as much as possible and the recent news reports about the sentencing still refer to him as a "shooter" and the incident as a "shooting". Richard-of-Earth (talk) 19:19, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Im good with 2019 El Paso mass shooting. Yousef Raz (talk) 00:19, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 February 2024[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 11:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2019 El Paso shooting → El Paso Walmart shooting – WP:COMMONNAME, Google Trends show that the proposed name is usually used at a higher rate than the current name, and almost all articles about the shooting mention that it happened at a Walmart, some of which don’t even mention that it happened in El Paso. MountainDew20 (talk) 04:59, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the reasoning for the title change, but should it not still have the ‘2019’ in the title? A year in the title is the norm for the majority of articles about mass shootings. Macxcxz (talk) 02:10, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:TITLE. Current title is OK.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:56, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:NCE. I'd be okay with 2019 El Paso Walmart shooting but unless there was another notable shooting in El Paso in 2019, I think it's unnecessary. —Locke Cole • t • c 07:12, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

mass shooting hyperlink[edit]

The photo that pops up for "mass shooting". I see a black male holding a shotgun in a hallway. I do not think this is an accurate nor appropriate use for the term nor representative of what should be shown. Funsizeguy (talk) 20:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This relates to the article Mass shooting so it would be better to take it up as an issue there.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:24, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]