Talk:A. G. Sulzberger

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Requested move 25 June 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 02:48, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]


A. G. Sulzberger → A.G. Sulzberger – On behalf of The New York Times Company as part of my work at Beutler Ink, I'd like to submit a request to move the A. G. Sulzberger article to A.G. Sulzberger, per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biography#Initials, which says, "An initial is capitalized and is followed by a full point (period) and a space (e.g. J. R. R. Tolkien), unless: the person demonstrably has a different, consistently preferred style for his or her own name; and an overwhelming majority of reliable sources use that variant style for that person." You can find appearances of both in secondary coverage, so I won't cherry pick here, but even just glancing at the titles of the sources already used as inline citations within the article, you'll see "A.G." appears more frequently than "A. G." Sulzberger himself prefers "A.G." and, per my disclosure, I am making this request on his behalf. Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:49, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per nom. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:22, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Arthur Gregg Sulzberger, cannot understand why that caveat is in MOS. Needs to be removed. And styles are evidently not consistent. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:28, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • But since the language is there, and has been used previously, opposing this request based on existing MOS language is putting the cart on top the horse and sending it back to the barn to be re-shoed. If we take Inkian Jason at their word then Sulzberger requests the change as his preferred usage, which is covered by MOS. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:44, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom and per WP:ABOUTSELF. SnowFire (talk) 17:06, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. In order for the exception to apply, we'd need sources that use "A.G." even though their style guide would prescribe something different ("A. G." or "AG", for example). Such sources are available for k.d. lang and the other examples listed in the exception clause. If Mr Sulzberger's chosen format does have sources, then the move is justified, but we'll need to see them. Tevildo (talk) 18:44, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Tevildo: Where does MOS:INITIALS or WP:INITS say that? --Mdaniels5757 (talk) 02:52, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • MOS:INITIALS says "an overwhelming majority of reliable sources use that variant style", with 'variant' being the operative word. If a publication normally uses unspaced initials, then "A.G." isn't a variant as far as that publication is concerned. Tevildo (talk) 10:07, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      @Tevildo: I interpret that differently. In my opinion, "that variant style" refers to variation from the standard Wikipedia style, not variation from a source's style. I think this because "that variant style" comes right after (and thus, I believe, refers to) "the person demonstrably has a different, consistently preferred style for his or her own name", which in turn comes after Wikipedia's standard style rule. Thoughts? --Mdaniels5757 (talk) 15:14, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Mdaniels5757: I think both interpretations are potentially valid - I'll leave the decision to the closing admin. Incidentally, our article on B.B. King doesn't have the space, although a fair number of the citations use "BB" instead. There's a footnote (without references) that his name is usually written without the space: the discussion is at Talk:B.B._King/Archive_1#Space_between_B._and_B., which took place before MOS:INITIALS had its current form. I won't change my !vote for now, but your desired result is not without precedent. Tevildo (talk) 16:34, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment @Inkian Jason: Has Mr Sulzberger officially issued a press release (through your agency or otherwise) to this effect? If so, a link to it would be a useful citation if the article is moved. Tevildo (talk) 16:41, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I came here to close this move request, but found that I needed to do a bit of investigation based on the conflicting !votes among discussants. I took a look at the citations in the article and found that all citations that refer to the initials use "A.G." except for two (see below for accounting). This satisfies the "overwhelming majority of reliable sources" element of the style guidance. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:12, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    A.G. (no space)
    • IMDB
    • NYT article (x2)
    • Intelligencer
    • JTA
    • Washington Post
    • The Oregonian
    • Reuters
    • Brown Alumni Magazine
    • SEC submission
    • Wired
    • TIME
    • BuzzFeed News
    • NYT company pres release
    • NPR
    • Politico
    • USA Today (and in a tweet from Trump shown in article)
    A. G. (space)
    • New York Magazine
    • NYT article (on byline)
  • Support per my comment above and per Ceyockey. --Mdaniels5757 (talk) 02:23, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I find it hard to believe that he's really that bothered by a space. This is merely a style issue, and wikipedia style is to use a space. DrKay (talk) 17:26, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Point is that if the biographee goes by the name without the space and asks Wikipdia to change it, that's covered by MOS and so should be spaceless. Randy Kryn (talk) 22:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This is purely a style issue and the current title is Wikipedia's house style. -- Necrothesp (talk) 23:52, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Suggestions for Providence Journal and The Oregonian subsections[edit]

Hello! On behalf of The New York Times Company as part of my work at Beutler Ink (see disclosure above), I'd like to submit a few requests to expand and update this article. First, I'd like editors to consider adding a couple details to the Providence Journal and The Oregonian subsections of Career.

Extended content
1. Providence Journal – Following is a copy of the current Providence Journal subsection:
  • Sulzberger worked as an intern for The Providence Journal from 2004 to 2006, working from the paper's office in Wakefield.[1] While there, he revealed that membership of the Narragansett Lions Club was not open to women.[1] Despite threats from the club to withdraw their advertising if the story was run, the Journal published Sulzberger's story.[1] The club began admitting women members a few months later.[1]

References

  1. ^ a b c d Rosenberg, Alan (December 14, 2017). "Sulzberger didn't back down in Narragansett confrontation". The Providence Journal. Providence, Rhode Island. Retrieved December 15, 2017. Arthur Gregg Sulzberger ... took part in an internship program at The Providence Journal from 2004 to 2006

I propose replacing this with the following, which mentions how he joined the newspaper and fixes grammar ("was run" → "ran"):

  • After being encouraged by Brown journalism professor Tracy Breton to apply,[1] Sulzberger interned at The Providence Journal from 2004 to 2006, working from the paper's office in Wakefield.[2] While there, he revealed that membership of the Narragansett Lions Club was not open to women.[2] Despite threats from the club to withdraw their advertising if the story ran, the Journal published Sulzberger's story.[2] The club began admitting women a few months later.[2]

References

  1. ^ Zak, Dan; Ellison, Sarah; Terris, Ben (July 30, 2018). "'He doesn't like bullies': The story of the 37-year-old who took over the New York Times and is taking on Trump". The Washington Post. Retrieved June 25, 2020. Breton urged him to apply for a two-year internship at the Providence Journal...
  2. ^ a b c d Rosenberg, Alan (December 14, 2017). "Sulzberger didn't back down in Narragansett confrontation". The Providence Journal. Providence, Rhode Island. Retrieved December 15, 2017. Arthur Gregg Sulzberger ... took part in an internship program at The Providence Journal from 2004 to 2006
2. The Oregonian – Following is a copy of the current The Oregonian subsection:

References

  1. ^ Rogoway, Mike (February 9, 2018). "A.G. Sulzberger, New York Times' publisher and former Oregonian reporter, talks journalism in the digital age". The Oregonian. Portland, Oregon. Retrieved February 13, 2018.

I propose replacing this with the following, which uses the same source to give a brief overview of the work he completed during his tenure with the newspaper:

  • Sulzberger worked as a news reporter for The Oregonian newspaper in Portland from 2006 to 2009, writing more than 300 pieces about local government and public life, including a series of investigative exposés on misconduct by Multnomah County Sheriff Bernie Giusto that led to the sheriff's resignation.[1]

References

  1. ^ Rogoway, Mike (February 9, 2018). "A.G. Sulzberger, New York Times' publisher and former Oregonian reporter, talks journalism in the digital age". The Oregonian. Portland, Oregon. Retrieved February 13, 2018.

Can editors please review this request and update the article appropriately on my behalf? I will not update the article directly because of my conflict of interest. I've tried to show changes clearly and make the proposed markup easy to copy and paste. I'm happy to address any concerns.

Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 21:51, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Have added your edits with the exception of the last line referencing the sheriff's resignation ("that led to" not backed up by exact language in the source). Randy Kryn (talk) 02:36, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your help here, and for weighing in on the move discussion above. I'll be posting another request to improve this article soon. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:30, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions for The New York Times subsection[edit]

@Randy Kryn: Thanks again for your help above. I'd now like to focus on the subsection dedicated to The New York Times. Following is a copy of the current markup:

Extended content

In February 2009, Sulzberger began writing for the Times. The newspaper published his first article on March 2, 2009.[1]

He was named an associate editor of The New York Times in August 2015.[2] In October 2016, he was named deputy publisher, putting him in line to succeed his father as publisher.[3][4][5]

On December 14, 2017, it was announced that he would take over as publisher on January 1, 2018. He is the sixth member of the Ochs-Sulzberger family to serve in the role.[6][7]

The 2017 film Kodachrome, directed by Mark Raso, is based upon one of his 2010 articles.[8]

Sulzberger met President Trump at the White House on July 20, 2018. He said in a statement, "I told the president directly that I thought that his language was not just divisive but increasingly dangerous. I warned that this inflammatory language is contributing to a rise in threats against journalists and will lead to violence."[9][10][11]

References

  1. ^ Sulzberger, A. G. (March 2, 2009). "Second Snow Day Unlikely, Mayor Says". The New York Times.
  2. ^ Baquet, Dean (July 30, 2015). "Arthur Gregg Sulzberger Named Associate Editor". The New York Times.
  3. ^ Ember, Sydney (October 19, 2016). "New York Times Names A.G. Sulzberger Deputy Publisher". The New York Times. Retrieved October 19, 2018.
  4. ^ Cite error: The named reference NewYork-DeputyEditorAnalysis-2016 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  5. ^ Sherman, Gabriel (August 24, 2015). "The Heirs: A Three-Way, Mostly Civilized Family Contest to Become the Next Publisher of The Times". New York.
  6. ^ Ember, Sydney (December 14, 2017). "A.G. Sulzberger, 37, to Take Over as New York Times Publisher". The New York Times. Retrieved October 19, 2018.
  7. ^ Wamsley, Laurel (December 14, 2017). "New York Times Names A.G. Sulzberger, 37, Its Next Publisher". NPR. Retrieved December 23, 2017.
  8. ^ Sulzberger, A. G. (December 29, 2010). "For Kodachrome Fans, Road Ends at Photo Lab in Kansas". The New York Times. Retrieved April 24, 2018.
  9. ^ "NYT publisher disputes Trump's retelling of off-the-record conversation". politico.com. Retrieved July 30, 2018.
  10. ^ "New York Times publisher A.G. Sulzberger chides President Donald Trump over 'fake news' claims". usatoday.com. Retrieved July 30, 2018.
  11. ^ "New York Times publisher says he chided Trump not to call press the enemy". nbcnews.com. Retrieved July 30, 2018.

I propose replacing this markup with the following:

Extended content
In February 2009, Sulzberger began writing for the Times as a metro reporter.[1] The newspaper published his first article on March 2, 2009.[2] He became a national correspondent,[3] heading the Kansas City bureau and covering the Midwest region.[4][5] In 2011, he reported on the ground from Joplin, Missouri about a deadly tornado that killed more than 100 people.[6][7] In 2013, he profiled two hang glider pilots trying to break the longest flight world record.[8] In 2013, he was tapped by then-executive editor Jill Abramson to lead the team that produced the Times' Innovation Report,[9] an internal assessment of the challenges facing the Times in the digital age.[10][11][12] He was the lead author of the 97-page report,[4][10] which documented in "clinical detail" how the Times was losing ground to "nimbler competitors" and "called for revolutionary changes".[6] The Innovation Report was leaked to BuzzFeed News in March 2014.[13]

He was named an associate editor of The New York Times in August 2015.[14] In October 2016, he was named deputy publisher, putting him in line to succeed his father as publisher.[15][16][17] The 2017 film Kodachrome, directed by Mark Raso, is based on his 2010 article about a rural community that became the last place to develop Kodachrome film.[18] On December 14, 2017, it was announced that he would take over as publisher on January 1, 2018. He is the sixth member of the Ochs-Sulzberger family to serve in the role.[19][20]

Sulzberger met President Trump at the White House on July 20, 2018. He said in a statement, "I told the president directly that I thought that his language was not just divisive but increasingly dangerous. I warned that this inflammatory language is contributing to a rise in threats against journalists and will lead to violence."[21][22][23]

References

  1. ^ Wemple, Erik (December 14, 2017). "A.G. Sulzberger to assume publisher role at New York Times on Jan. 1". The Washington Post. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  2. ^ Sulzberger, A. G. (March 2, 2009). "Second Snow Day Unlikely, Mayor Says". The New York Times.
  3. ^ Trotta, Daniel (December 14, 2017). "Leadership of New York Times passes to next-generation Sulzberger". Reuters. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  4. ^ a b Klein, Julia M. (July 8, 2019). "Public Enemy No 1". Brown Alumni Magazine. Brown University. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  5. ^ Murphy, Eileen; Ha, Danielle Rhoades (December 14, 2017). "New York Times Publisher Arthur O. Sulzberger, Jr. to Retire at Year's End; A.G. Sulzberger Named Publisher". U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Retrieved June 26, 2020 – via The New York Times.
  6. ^ a b "The Heirs". New York. August 23, 2015. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  7. ^ Sulzberger, A. G.; Stelter, Brian (May 23, 2011). "A Rush to Protect Patients, Then Bloody Chaos". The New York Times. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  8. ^ Sulzberger, A. G. (January 12, 2013). "Two Men, One Sky: A Flight to the Finish". The New York Times. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  9. ^ Benton, Joshua (May 15, 2014). "The leaked New York Times innovation report is one of the key documents of this media age". Nieman Lab. Nieman Foundation for Journalism. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  10. ^ a b Snyder, Gabriel (February 12, 2017). "The New Tork Times Claws Its Way Int the Future". Wired. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  11. ^ Vick, Karl (October 10, 2019). "How A.G. Sulzberger Is Leading the New York Times Into the Future". Time. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  12. ^ Levitz, Eric (October 19, 2016). "A.G. Sulzberger Vanquishes His Cousins, Becomes Deputy Publisher of the New York Times". New York. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  13. ^ Tanzer, Myles (May 15, 2014). "Exclusive: New York Times Internal Report Painted Dire Digital Picture". BuzzFeed News. BuzzFeed. Retrieved June 26, 2020.
  14. ^ Baquet, Dean (July 30, 2015). "Arthur Gregg Sulzberger Named Associate Editor". The New York Times.
  15. ^ Ember, Sydney (October 19, 2016). "New York Times Names A.G. Sulzberger Deputy Publisher". The New York Times. Retrieved October 19, 2018.
  16. ^ Cite error: The named reference NewYork-DeputyEditorAnalysis-2016 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  17. ^ Sherman, Gabriel (August 24, 2015). "The Heirs: A Three-Way, Mostly Civilized Family Contest to Become the Next Publisher of The Times". New York.
  18. ^ Sulzberger, A. G. (December 29, 2010). "For Kodachrome Fans, Road Ends at Photo Lab in Kansas". The New York Times. Retrieved April 24, 2018.
  19. ^ Ember, Sydney (December 14, 2017). "A.G. Sulzberger, 37, to Take Over as New York Times Publisher". The New York Times. Retrieved October 19, 2018.
  20. ^ Wamsley, Laurel (December 14, 2017). "New York Times Names A.G. Sulzberger, 37, Its Next Publisher". NPR. Retrieved December 23, 2017.
  21. ^ "NYT publisher disputes Trump's retelling of off-the-record conversation". politico.com. Retrieved July 30, 2018.
  22. ^ "New York Times publisher A.G. Sulzberger chides President Donald Trump over 'fake news' claims". usatoday.com. Retrieved July 30, 2018.
  23. ^ "New York Times publisher says he chided Trump not to call press the enemy". nbcnews.com. Retrieved July 30, 2018.

The proposed text adds mention of him joining the newspaper as a metro reporter, becoming a national correspondent for the Kansas City bureau, and his work on the Innovation Report. I've also moved the Kodachrome claim so content is displayed in chronological order (and linked to Kodachrome for context), and worked to tighten the language a bit. I hope editors find this additional detail and sourcing helpful. I will have another request to improve the latter half of this section, but I don't want to give editors too much to review at once. Thanks again for you help, Inkian Jason (talk) 16:31, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Have edited your language of the Times section and added it. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:33, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Randy Kryn: Thanks again for reviewing. I see the language you've added does not mention his role as national correspondent for the Kansas City bureau or the Innovation Report, both of which are well-documented. Can you explain your decision to leave out these details? Inkian Jason (talk) 14:42, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Probably lost in cut-and-paste, have added the items. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:55, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Randy Kryn: Thanks for taking another look. I see there's a reference error for "Heirs" in the References section. The markup for this citation is provided in the proposed text above, following the sentence "In 2011, he reported on the ground from Joplin, Missouri about a deadly tornado that killed more than 100 people":
  • <ref name=Heirs>{{cite journal |title=The Heirs |journal=[[New York (magazine)|New York]] |date=August 23, 2015 |url=https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2015/08/new-york-times-heirs.html |accessdate=June 26, 2020}}</ref>
I will assume you do not prefer to add the proposed text re: his reporting on the tornado and longest flight world record attempt. Do you mind adding the citation to resolve the error? Inkian Jason (talk) 15:00, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You can probably add a reference, I don't think paid COI's are restricted from such edits but may be wrong. I have a regular non-paid COI tag placed on a page but plan to add relevant refs if nobody else does. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:20, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Thanks. I prefer not to edit the main space directly because of my conflict of interest, but I've fixed the reference error as a non-controversial improvement per your suggestion here. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:48, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More improvements for The New York Times subsection[edit]

@Randy Kryn: Thanks again for your help above. As promised, I've returned with some additional improvements for this section. Since there were some copy-and-paste issues with the above request, I've saved my proposed section markup here for easier review. I've saved the current markup here and this diff shows the specific changes I propose, as outlined below:

  • added mention of his role (metro reporter) when he joined the news outlet, as mentioned in multiple reliable sources
  • moved the claim about Kodachrome film up since this is about one of his 2010 articles
  • noted his involvement in the 'Our Path Forward' plan while serving as associate editor for newsroom strategy
  • added mention of his family members (and colleagues) who were also considered for the role of deputy publisher
  • added mention that Sulzberger commented on his meeting with Trump after the president's tweet
  • added mention of his second meeting with Trump
  • added his positions on independent press and local news, which I think are relevant given his role

I've worked to draft brief and neutral content based on sourcing, and The New York Times Company has verified accuracy of all claims. I'll refrain from updating the page myself, but if these seem like reasonable updates, I'm hoping Randy Kryn and/or other editors will copy and paste over the updated markup appropriately. Thanks again for your help! Inkian Jason (talk) 17:56, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Whoisjohngalt: I know you're aware of my work to improve a small group of NYT-related biographies, so I wanted to put this outstanding request on your radar as well. Here I've outlined specific improvements and proposed specific markup changes in user draft space for easier review and copying and pasting. Would you be willing to review this request as well? Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 14:48, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
Thank you for updating the article, Whoisjohngalt. Inkian Jason (talk) 22:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions for introduction[edit]

@Whoisjohngalt: Thanks again for your help above. I have a final suggestion for improving this article. Currently, the article's introduction emphasizes his relation to Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr. and suggests this is a reasonable for the subject's notability. Of course, the claim is true, but I propose restructuring the text a bit to describe the subject's role at the news outlet, then mention Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr. I've proposed specific text here, and this diff shows proposed changes to the current text. The proposed text also displays the subject's initials (A.G.) after "Arthur Gregg". If you agree, would you mind updating the page on my behalf? Again, my goal here is to lead with details about the subject and what makes him notable, without removing mention of his father, who is obviously notable as well.

Thank you! Inkian Jason (talk) 16:22, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lede has been updated.  Done
Thanks again for your help, Whoisjohngalt. I'm currently seeking assistance at Talk:Meredith Kopit Levien, if you're willing to take a look. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:59, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am writing on behalf of The New York Times Company to request a factual update to this page. Effective January 1, 2021, A.G. Sulzberger is chairman of The New York Times Company in addition to serving as publisher as The New York Times.

Recommend updating the first and the second sentence as follows: "A.G. Sulzberger has been chairman of The New York Times Company since 2021 and publisher of The New York Times since 2018. As chairman and publisher...."

Below are sources:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-new-york-times-sulzberger/nyts-sulzberger-jr-to-retire-as-chairman-by-end-of-december-idUSKCN26E3IG

https://www.nytco.com/person/a-g-sulzberger/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/media/arthur-ochs-sulzberger-retires/index.html

170.149.100.113 (talk) 12:19, 1 January 2021 (UTC) Danielle Rhoades Ha, on behalf of The New York Times Company 170.149.100.113 (talk) 12:19, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions for personal life[edit]

{{Ping|Whoisjohngalt} Hello! I work at The New York Times and am writing to suggest an edit to the personal life section -- the removal of "Both practice the Jewish faith." The supporting citation, The Washington Post article, does not support that statement. Thank you! Danielle Rhoades Ha 2600:1700:3F78:10B0:E48F:C248:94BA:164D (talk) 20:54, 15 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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