Talk:Academic dress

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stub[edit]

Created stub Andrew Yong 08:28, 10 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Colors[edit]

Someone please add some pictures. I would add the complicated code of colors for different degrees but I don't remember most of it. Rmhermen 17:11, Oct 10, 2003 (UTC)

American colors: http://www.ermoore.com/regalia/officialcolor.html

E.R. Moore claims to be the sole depository for Intercollegiate Code regulations - is this really true?

no it is not true

--Then could you please provide appropriate rebuttal for this claim (now found at http://www.ermoore.com/products/academic/intercollegiate.do.htm)? They have interesting documents on that page, by the way, such as http://www.ermoore.com/pdf/capandgowns.pdf Solarbuddy (talk)

In the United States the American Council on Education (ACE) is the authority on academic costume. Their website includes the text of their guidance on academic regalis and ceremony here. Nowhere is E.R. Moore referred to or designated as "the sole depository for Intercollegiate Code regulations", whatever that might mean. I suspect what that phrase is supposed to relate to is the discipline colors, which E.R. Moore is similarly not the sole repository.
However, E.R. Moore is noted on the ACE webisite with the statement "Additional information about discipline colors is available from E.R. Moore Co." and a link. That link includes information that conflicts with or, without explanation, expands upon the ACE code. I suspect that it was a convenience for ACE to link to E.R. Moore that was exploited by the latter for profit motives. The bottom line is: ACE is the authority in the US for academic costume guidelines, and E.R. Moore has no "official" standing according to them, though there is some implicit recognition of the latter on the website, but NOT in the code itself. Shoreranger (talk) 16:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tassels[edit]

Info needs to be added about wearing of tassels. In all the graduation ceremonies I've been in, we were told to wear the tassel on one side before we got our diplomas, then move it over to the other either after we had individually received them, or as a group. ---emb021

That tradition depends on the institution. Generally, if you are receiving a bachelor's degree from a place where hoods are not worn with bachelor's degrees, then you do the tassel thing. However, in most places if you are receiving a graduate degree, then you always wear the tassel on the left, even if the degree hasn't been formally conferred yet. Of course, there are variations, but this is the general norm. Pmadrid 16:59, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, this thing about the tassel being moved over to the other side is a relatively recent (early-mid 20th century) US tradition and doesn't generally happen elsewhere from what I understand. Indeed, the tassels on US mortarboards different to those in UK universities - with the former, the tassel is situated at the end of a single cord which is attached to the button at the centre of the square, while with the latter, the tassel itself emanates from the central button, which makes the tassel-switching thing rather more difficult to do. - Nicholas Jackson 08:50, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edit history?[edit]

So where is the edit history? Tom Harrison Talk 15:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User:Droitet made Academic regalia, cut and pasted the content from Academic dress and made dress redirect to regalia. User:Andrew Yong reverted and undid the redirect. Now regalia has an incomplete edit history, showing only User:Droitet's paste-in. We can't have that; we need to keep the history with the content for copyright reasons. Nobody did anything wrong; I'm restoring the status quo to preserve the edit history. If there is a consensus to have the page be called regalia instead of dress, that can always be done later. For now, regalia will redirect to dress. Leave a message on my talk page if you have questions or comments. Tom Harrison Talk 16:04, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see User:Andrew Yong has already done that. Thanks, Tom Harrison Talk 16:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article title[edit]

Copied from user talk pages

Hello. I see that you have reverted my edit to the Academic dress page. I had redirected it to " Academic regalia " since this term is more explicit. It is also the more commonly used term to describe the subject, at least here in the United States. We should attempt to clarify this together since, as it now stands, there are two identical articles with differing titles. Please feel free to comment on my talk page. --Droitet 16:00, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The difference is one of regional usage, but I would have thought that Academic dress is more generic than Academic regalia - in England the word regalia signifies the ensigns and attire of a monarch, e.g. his crown, sceptre, robe, etc. See the Wikipedia article on regalia.
I have edited Academic regalia to redirect to Academic dress for the time being and added the phrase "Academic regalia" to the Academic dress article. I assume the term Academic dress is not confusing to Americans? Andrew Yong 16:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the United States, "dress" usually refers to the feminine garment. "Attire" or "costume" is usually used in its stead in such a context. Hence "Evening attire" is used to describe formalwear (another Americanism) for either gender, while "Evening dress" would refer only to a woman's outfit. What you might term a "fancy dress party" is called a "costume party" in the US, since "fancy dress" would again imply elegant gowns or dresses. Similarly, "Academic dress" could be confused for the academic gown itself as opposed to the entire ensemble. It is with this logic that I made the initial change to "Academic regalia." Is this term obsolete in British English? Perhaps we should bring in more perspectives. I will leave your edit as it is for the moment, though I do not find it entirely satisfactory. --Droitet 16:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
While "academic regalia" is more common in the US, "academic dress" does not appear to be unknown: see e.g. [1]. However, if the basic issue is one of US/UK English difference, then the default position would surely be to leave the page at its original location but provide redirects? There are also six or seven sub-pages dealing with the academic dress of British universities. A more neutral term may be acceptable, but "academic regalia" is too American. Andrew Yong 11:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"Academic dress" is not confusing to me, and I am American. I have never heard the term "academic regalia". I rv'd one of the places Droitet changed existing links from academic dress to academic regalia, but not all of the others, pending group consensus. PKM 04:05, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I should probably point out that I read as many British books on costume and textiles as American, so my "mental map" of the terminology make not be typically American. PKM 19:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Color significance[edit]

I just added a couple of notes to clarify the American use of colors in hoods; they are really double. The velvet facing of all U.S. hoods shows the degree earned - not the "discipline" as stated above the color table. Thus, a Ph.D. in any subject from astronomy to English to zoology gets a blue facing, while a doctorate in public health (D.P.H.) gets salmon pink and a doctorate in medicine (M.D.) green, theology (S.T.D.) red and so forth. Most bachelors' degrees in the U.S. are granted by liberal arts schools so their facings are white. The silk lining, which is visible from the back, is in the school colors (for any degree) as well as the option of the doctoral gown being in the school colors. So if you know the color codes, you can look at an academic procession and figure out where everybody in it went to school and what degree they earned. (I'm associate Faculty Marshal, in charge of regalia - we do call it that - at a small American liberal arts college.)

216.57.241.194 19:51, 14 March 2006 (UTC) Lundy Pentz[reply]

  • It seemed like the discussion history could benefit from a note here: Since the above was posted a number of clarifications have been made, and cited, that contradict the claims. According to the ACE, colors do, indeed, refer to the discipline and NOT the degree. The confusion n the part of dark blue for a Ph.D. in a number of different fields is also covered in the article, and referenced. Shoreranger 20:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stuff[edit]

BTW, "stuff" is standard British usage for cloth or fabric (OED traces it to 1462). It's completely unknown in this meaning in the U.S., outside of students of textiles, costume, etc., so I haven't reverted the change as it makes the entry clearer. - PKM 17:55, 16 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard uses of the word "tat" (i.e. derived from tatting) to describe academic dress (such as "Dr. Howard's tat"). Should this word be inserted into the article? --Charlie Huang 【正矗昊】 10:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe this term is used anywhere outside the Yahoo group, so I'd say no, unless you have some evidence that it's more widespread. Mhardcastle 16:17, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed true: "Stuff" is completely unknown in this meaning in the U.S.
I find it interesting that the common German word for the fabrics that seamstresses, tailors, factories, etc., use to make clothing, etc., from is "Stoff". (This word also has many other meanings in German, such as in the compound words "Wasserstoff" = "hydrogen" or "Sauerstoff" = "oxygen".) Given this, my estimate is that "stuff" or "stoff" is also an ancient word in Anglo-Saxon. Anyone who wants to know is welcome to check it out.

Catholic clergy[edit]

Unless anyone can argue that the current text is true for Catholic clergy in an academic context I propose to remove it. It's certainly not true as written for all academic contexts; I'd settle for a change that makes it clear in what academic context it is true.

Mhardcastle 22:03, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can argue with a website in german (http://www.dieter-philippi.de/mydante_1479.html), but that is all. I think that the previous text should be reinstated. Ithillion 00:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The biretta with four ridges in the RC tradition is reserved to those with a doctorate in theology or divinity not any doctorate. Many clergymen have doctorates and those with degrees outside of theology or divinity would wear a square cap or bonnet/tam. Highdesert (talk) 18:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bachelors hoods[edit]

While I'm sure there are schools where hoods are worn for bachelors degrees, I've been to a number of graduation ceremonies for at least 8 different universities, and in all cases those receiving bachelors degrees wore no hoods. The way I read the article, it seems to be saying that most schools in the US include hoods in the regalia for a bachelors degree. Is there any kind of source to turn to to determine which is the norm in the US? - 157.127.124.15 16 May 2007

From what I've seen discussed it seems that the universities have prescribed hoods but don't actually use them for graduation ceremonies. So it could be even more complicated. Timrollpickering 13:54, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A high proportion of the large universities don't use them any longer, but many of the small liberal arts colleges continue to use them. Highdesert (talk) 18:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Academic dress in non-English speaking countries[edit]

The article seems to be too anglocentric. There should be additional detailed sections on academic dress in other non-English speaking countries, especially France, Italy, and Germany, which have a long traditon of universities dating back to the Middle Ages. Toeplitz 12:52, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've started researching the issue. I think it may be more appropriate if this article began with a discussion of the common history of academic dress before diving into the description of modern British academic dress. A good historical section would also provide adequate jumping-off points for discussion of robes in other countries. — Gareth Hughes 00:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
G'day Gareth, I noticed something else on the earlier segment of this page relating to the use of birettas as academic dress, which i see has erroniously been deleted as academicly piped birettas (with both three and four fins are still worn). I came across a very interesting page in German, which would be fascinating for me, if I could actually read more german than the about 4 dozen words that i know. if someone else would like to examine it and add its contents to this page im sure it would be excellent! http://www.dieter-philippi.de/mydante_1479.html is the page. Hope someone finds it useful, and not just pretty (like I did!). Ithillion 00:29, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is an article in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE WIKIPEDIA, hence I am astonished and offended by accusations of anglocentrism. If is is anglocentric at all, then So Be It. Let the French be francocentric, and so forth, and God Bless Them!!98.81.2.95 (talk) 06:04, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The language is English, but the scope is intended to be international (as with other major encyclopaedias). -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 13:40, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Gownsmen"[edit]

This sentence is unclear: "To receive membership in the Order, undergraduates must obtain and maintain between a 3.0 and 3.4 GPA (respective to class year); all students of the School of Theology receive the gown upon admission to the School."

Once a student hits 3.5 they are out? The minimum GPA for membership is progressively higher by .1 each undergraduate year? What? Shoreranger 20:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What this means is that Sophomores who attended the university as Freshmen may earn their gown with a GPA of 3.4, while the minimum GPA for Juniors or Seniors is lower. And actually, those who do not make the minimum GPA earn their gown when they pass comprehensive examinations. Since that pass is required for graduation, all students have earned their gown by the time they graduate, though students who earn theirs through "comping" may never be formally gowned at an Opening Convocation, since one will probably not occur in between "comps" and commencement. While the faculty may wear worn and tattered undergraduate gowns to lectures and seminars, they scrub up well in doctoral robes for Convocations (Opening, Founders Day, Baccalaureate, Commencement).

Graduates at the University of the South do not traditionally wear caps to commencement. Their gowns are worn open, and may be faded and frayed from regular classroom use. In fact, the older gowns are considered to be more prestigious, since wear indicates either a gown that has been passed down from student to student, or a gown that has been worn since early in the student's academic career. It is traditional for the initials and graduating years of all the students who have worn the gown to be embroidered in colored thread on the yoke. The wearing of yellow poplar leaves pinned to the gowns of forestry graduates has been a tradition that honors a beloved professor since the 1980s. The Vice-Chancellor of the University of the South still wears a scarlet habit and ermine cope, and the salutatory address and certain other parts of the ceremony are still given in Latin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanba38 (talk • contribs) 08:09, 2 August 2009 (UTC) Sanba38 (talk) 08:23, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Graduands vs Graduates[edit]

This is being reverted a bit (albeit not by me). Part of the problem is that different universities do things differently - at some the degree is formally conferred at the ceremony itself but at others the degree is technically conferred in advance by a meeting of the Senate or whichever committee formally exercises the degree awarded powers - see Open University#Degree ceremonies for one example of this. Timrollpickering (talk) 20:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The initial editor obviously wan't aware of the word graduand at all, and just thought it was a typo for graduate. The second attempt was just ungrammatical, the current one I can live with, though it seems a bit of a nelogism. David Underdown (talk) 13:40, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Robe Colors (in the US)[edit]

Every year at graduation time I wish there were a list of universities that use non-black robes, a trend that is increasing. There seems to be no list, other than incomplete ones at some of the regelia manufacturers, such as http://www.herffjones.com/college/regalia/index.cfm?at=1&con=1, http://www.ermoore.com/products/regalia/regSpecial.do.htm, and http://www.oakhalli.com/schools.asp. Wikipedia seems the ideal place to build such a list. I'd think there ought to be a table that lists by major color group (perhaps red, orange, yellow, green, cyan, blue, violet, brown, grey, white) and then lists institutions in alphabetical order in each group. We could also have a black category to confirm schools that still use black, but this list would be long and uninteresting. The rationale is that if someone sees a purple gown, they can go to the "violet" section of the table and then scan to match (e.g. NYU vs. Washington). The table would have the exact name of the color (e.g. Mayfair Purple for NYU). As an example, Washington University in St. Louis would be: 

Green
-----
Institution            Since ---------------Robe------------------      ------------cap-----------------  ------doctoral hood--------- cite
                       2004  color     panels      chevrons  other      type        color shape   tassel  color lining trim
Washington University        green     black       black     seals      tam         black hexagonal gold  green red/green blue: PhD
in St. Louis                           gold        none      shoulders                                                    orange: DSc
---------------------        ---------------------------------------    --------------------------------  ----------------------------
Example U.                   sea green black       black                mortarboard black square   black  black white/blue
                                       discipline  discipline                                                   double chev.

(the second color in the panels and chevrons is the piping color; the panels, chevrons, or piping may be the ACE discipline color) Once the table were started, the hope is that individuals from the various institutions would fill in the table. I'm certainly not an expert in this, and the above is only a first start at a table format. If there is interest and consensus, I could get the table started. Jpgs (talk) 15:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't really see the benefit of such a list. It wouldn't really help in identifying schools, as more than one school is likely to use the same color. The addition of ACE designated colors in a chart creates so many possibilities that a chart would seem to be so complicated and convoluted as to be of little use. In addition, all schools already use color in the hood linings. In addition, a number of schools use a colored robe for the doctorate, but not for the lower degrees (Fordham University, for example). Perhaps a seperate article listing college/university school colors is more to the point? Shoreranger (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2008 (UTC)165.83.133.248 (talk) 18:17, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm afraid this is a massive feat in itself given the numbers of institutions in the US. I have Haycraft's Degrees and Hoods of the World's Unis (1972) which has a list like the one proposed and there is around 2,000 entries (just think of how much there would be today!) Certainly would be worthy of a book or special website project but not a Wikipedia list. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 16:11, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Insufficient History section[edit]

Article needs more info on the history of Academic Dress. Where did it originate in and so on. I heard it comes from Avicenna's dress but don't know more about it yet. Farmanesh (talk) 05:31, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The standard texts (both long out of print) are A History of Academical Dress in Europe Until the End of the Eighteenth Century by W N Hargreaves-Mawdsley, and Academical Dress from the Middle Ages to the Present Day, including Lambeth Degrees by Charles Franklyn. The former is pretty comprehensive; the latter contains some interesting information, including reprinted segments of older material, but is pretty difficult to get hold of (it was privately printed in a limited edition of 200 copies). Franklyn's work also contains some stuff that he states as unarguable fact, but which seems to have little if any actual historical justification. (Examples include his assertion that the 'convocation habit' worn by doctors at Oxford and (in theory) Durham is actually the same thing as the chimere worn by bishops — they look very similar but there's a fair amount of evidence that actually they have different origins — and his ex cathedra pronouncement that any MA (that is, full university graduate) is entitled to a black convocation habit — which seems to have no historical justification.)
Maybe the solution would be to write a separate History of academic dress article, and to link to it (and summarise it) in the appropriate section in this article. I'm happy to help with this (although I'll be rather busy for the next week). -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 10:15, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have the H-M book but it is pretty difficult to write a history from it as he divides the book into each country rather than give a general gloss chapter. I won't bother with Franklyn's book as said before, it is rather opinionated. I have added a lot of citations to the UK section and done a 'futher reading' section to file those books that have not been used for citations (I've keep the Burgon annuals in place to avoid messiness). I will remove the 'referencing insufficient' tag now as it is more or less OK. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 16:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Has there been any progress on this? I am still unable to find sufficient evidence --- outside of Arabic and Persian language documents on the internet --- that the academic dress was inspired from Avicenna. --Nourani (talk) 00:46, 27 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The first university in Europe was established by the Arabs in 841 AD, in the city of Salerno (Italy). It was an extension of the Muslim universities in the east. Then the University of Toledo, Seville and Granada were opened. So when the students (non Muslims from Europe) learned and graduated from these universities and returned to their lands, they used to dress in the Arab / Muslim robes (Thawb or Qamees), they initiated the dress of the Muslims and that would become an indication that this particular student graduated from the university of the Muslims. This imitation of wearing the Arab / Muslim garb (which is baggy and wide in design) has stayed with them to this day. Jack Goody in his book titled "Islam in Europe" says that "The Arabic clothing (Thawb) has remained the purest and clearest sign of scholastic integrity up to this day of ours, especially during scholastic events such as debating of university thesis, and graduations."Jay Khan India (talk) 16:58, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese AD[edit]

I don't think the hakama is Japanese AD proper. It is a traditional divided skirt but it is worn for other occasions as well and is not historically academically significant in Japan IMHO. More research needs to be done in this area. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 16:17, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Since no-one has put forward a reply, then I will remove it. The hakama is an item of traditional Japanese clothing not specific to graduation or academic dress. It is what one would consider formal wear in the sense of how we consider a morning coat part of formal wear so the hakama is not an item of academic dress in the sense of the article as ordinary people who have no degree or did not went to school can wear it regardless. By that reason, it is not academica dress. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 16:48, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

US gowns: facing designs[edit]

Example of academic dress of Harvard

A number of universities (Columbia [2], Harvard, et. al.) have designs on the facings. American, Andrews, Boston U. , CUNY, Claremont U., Cornell, Dartmouth, Fordham, New York U., Notre Dame, Purdue, Rutgers, USC, Stanford [3] are all featured on the Herff Jones webapage.

Thoughts about creating a gallery for these? Philly jawn (talk) 04:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we could split the American section off into a separate article. Any thoughts?--dave-- 17:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That may not be a bad idea - for both the American and British/Commonwealth sections. A much-reduced 3-4 paragraph remainder for each in this article, with a link to the respective main articles, might be sufficient. Shoreranger (talk) 20:30, 19 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems like a good idea. The article is getting overly long. However, we must first write out a comprehensive history and discription of AD first before we start to move things around. A lot of that is dotted around the article here and there. When I have the time, I will go through the whole thing and try and do this but it is a major reorganisation work. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 16:53, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Germany[edit]

I added some information about the history of academic dresses in Germany. Feel free to improve my English ;-) 125.162.47.86 (talk) 08:38, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

An interesting twist - a simplification - of academic apparel that is not mentioned yet[edit]

I earned my Master's Degree in Electrical Engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, Georgia, and it was my first experience with a graduate-degree hood. I had been looking into the correct hood-decoration color for engineering, electical engineering, etc., when I found out from the Institute that all of the master's degrees hoods would be decorated with yellow stripes - the Insitute's color (along with white) -- regardless of the student's academic major. Well, that was the end of the problem. Perhaps this is also done at other Institutes and colleges.
At the same ceremony, we had students who were receiving master's degrees in architecture, all forms of engineereing, chemistry, information & computer science mathematics, physics, engineering management, and probably some other fields. Everybody master's degree recipient with yellow-trimmed hoods. (Also, this was in 1980, and I don't recall paying much attention to the Ph.D. recipients' hoods. Maybe they were all yellow, too.)
Very good, but also a little disappointing, because I had already looked up the orange color for engineering.
When Georgia Tech opened for classes in October 1888, every student majored in mechanical engineering -- but within a couple of years, Georgia Tech was among the early schools in the United States to offer a major in electrical engineering. Of course, knowledge in technology and science have exploded from there.06:25, 8 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.81.2.95 (talk)

Inter-collegiate Colors[edit]

The inter-collegiate colors section seems to be a bit of a mess, particularly in explaining degree versus field colors. The part explaining how the color for the degree subject, rather than the degree, is worded oddly and in a confusing manner. I wasn't sure how to patch it up, so I didn't. It would seem as the second paragraph on the matter is a repetition of the first, but I wasn't sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashilikia (talk • contribs) 19:10, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The problem may stem from the pre-conceived notions concerning the colors under the ACE code, as exemplified by the the phrase "degree versus field colors." There are no "degree colors", only "field colors." That's it. Degrees are symbolized by the gown style and the hood length. Fields are symbolized by the trim colors. The school symbolized by the hood interior lining colors. Shoreranger (talk) 01:54, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tunisia[edit]

The Tunisia section makes no sense at all; it's not even a grammatically correct sentence. MayerG (talk) 02:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Origin[edit]

should their not be a section for the origin of the gown? i have previously read that the origin comes from the traditional Arabic Dress the Kuftan, and was worn by those Europeans who got University Education from Islamic Universities, especially in Cordoba, Toledo, Seville, and other major Arab cities in Andalusia, and went home wearing the kuftan in a sign of them acuiring high Islamic universities education, and the trend then followed in Oxford, and other major universities in Christian Europe... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.235.86.250 (talk) 12:02, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I got into a discussion about this a while back on Talk:Square academic cap, and ended up investigating the whole thing reasonably thoroughly. A very small number of writers have suggested that academic dress originated in the mediaeval Islamic madrassas. Afifi al-Akiti has a theory (unsupported by any concrete evidence as far as I've been able to discover) that the mortarboard derives from a ceremony where the Qu'ran would be balanced on top of a student's skull-cap, which sounds extraordinarily tenuous to me. And George Makdisi, in his book The Rise of Colleges: Institutions of Learning in Islam and the West argues (with a bit more evidence) that revered teachers would be given 'robes of honour' and give talks analogous to modern professorial inaugural lectures. But that seems to be about it, and as far as I could tell, Makdisi doesn't seem to give any evidence that these practices actually did spread to the various centres of learning in Europe (eg Bologna, Paris, Oxford, etc). There's a great deal more evidence (see, for example, W N Hargreaves-Mawdsley's book A History of Academical Dress in Europe until the End of the Eighteenth Century or Charles Franklyn's book Academical Dress from the Middle Ages to the Present Day, including Lambeth Degrees) that in fact Western academic dress derives from a combination of mediaeval European monastic and secular clothing.
You're probably right, though - it would be good to have a section giving a brief overview on the history of the various main items of academic dress. -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 20:29, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Portuguese Section[edit]

The portuguese section does not present the academic dress used in the portuguese universities. It presents the student dress. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.84.241.65 (talk) 21:55, 12 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think that most scholars of academic dress would include the costume worn by undergraduates--if such a thing is used--in the broad category of academic dress. It's inclusion here is quite appropriate. If you have information about the dress worn by graduates, please add that, as well.--dave-- 14:21, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

ACE Guidelines[edit]

Based on having attended multiple colleges and universities, it would appear to be virtually unheard of in contemporary American academia to forbid stoles, honor cords, and other regalia additions.

I am aware that the ACE guidelines state that "nothing else" may be worn with regalia. However, while most individual university dress codes for commencement that I can find do specify that they are based on ACE guidelines (assuming they mention ACE at all, which is rare), they go on to prescribe appropriate use of the sole and honor cord.

I would question whether perhaps a citation is needed to establish that ACE guidelines are widely recognized furthermore perhaps suggest that references be added which address the common deviation (which in my experience and in my research is near universal):

Stoles signifying academic affiliation or merit are typically permitted, limited to a single stole.

Honor cords representing achievements may be worn, with no limitation on the number worn.

Further deviations such as robes in school colors, alternative hats, and the like are now so common (I'd estimate perhaps as many as 25% of regionally accredited American Universities have these and more have embroidered logos and such) that it perhaps should require citation that the ACE guidelines remain a strong authority on the subject. It seems like it would be much more accurate to suggest that American universities have a wide array of loosely structured regalia codes which draw inspiration from but seldom adhere fully to ACE's standards.

A Wikipedia article really shouldn't prescribe what editors think "should be" or stand in defense of propriety but should describe "what is". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patrick00001 (talk • contribs) 16:38, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If you can provide peer-reviewed citations, edit way. Otherwise what you've presented - unsigned - is largely opinon and anecdotal evidence, not suitable for an encyclopedia entry. Shoreranger (talk) 16:50, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

East Germany[edit]

Although Germany is now a unified country, when the German student movement happened it was divided between West and East. The section implies that the German student movement happened only in West Germany, but I happen to know that academic regalia is still not popular in the former East-German University of Leipzig. I do not have the expertise to provide information about East German universities' academic regalia, but I think this is an omission from the article that needs to be filled. Can you help? Robert P. O'Shea (talk) 02:03, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I expanded the article with some information on East Germany. To summarize, the East German government abolished academic dress by law. Since then, many East German universities reintroduced academic dress. That University of Leipzig is not one of those is not too surprising, it has a reputation for being rather left politically. Mephistolus (talk) 22:54, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Academic dress/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Good and comprehensive, but needs references. Daniel Case 04:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 04:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 06:33, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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