Talk:Ahl al-Kisa

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Women in Religion Mid‑importance

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Layout[edit]

Feel free to change the layout, but please dont delete any material :)

--Striver 11:35, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is ridiculous. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a forum for arguments and counter-arguments and countercounterarguments, thinly veiled by being written in the third-person. What this article should contain is a summary of the event, of the principal sources supporting it, and of its importance in Shia theology, not a debate. - Mustafaa 13:48, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

OK, ill try to edit to you satisfaction

Peace!

--Striver 13:51, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ill add this later:

Wilfred Madelung makes the following observation on the verse of purification: "Who are the 'people of the house' here? The pronoun referring to them is in the masculine plural, while the preceding part of the verse is in the feminine plural. This change of gender has evidently contributed to the birth of various accounts of a legendary character, attaching the latter part of the verse to the five People of the Mantle (ahl al-kisā'): Muhammad, 'Ali, Fātima, Hasan and Husayn. In spite of the obvious Shí'ite significance, the great majority of the reports quoted by al-Tabari in his commentary on this verse support this interpretation." Madelung, The Succession to Muhammad, p. 14-15.[1] --Striver 06:44, 12 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why would you present this as a page considering "both sides" if your view and coverage of the Sunni perspective is so tainted. Don't argue this point, just read some of your writings, and you'll understand. I feel sorry for you for misrepresenting 90+% of this Ummah.

Bro,i do my best, and i hope to be swiftly corrected where i happen to unintentionaly missrepresent the Sunnis. Not representing them at all is worse than having them temporarily missrepresented in the begining.--Striver 20:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to Sunni Hadeeth collections[edit]

"According to the Sunni Hadith Collections, it is narrated that an Arab Christian envoy from Jizan (currently in North of Yemen and partly in Saudi Arabia) came to the Prophet to argue to which is the true religion. The prophet offered to them to do the Arabic Tradition known to those Arab Christians as Mubahala, that is that each conflicting party should cover themselves with a cover and together all parties ask God sincerely to destroy and inflict with curses and diseases on the liar party and even their families. The Prophet, as proof of his prophethood, brought Ali, his daughter Fatima and his grand children Hassan ibn Ali and Husayn ibn Ali, and came back to the Christians, saying this is my family (Ahl). He then covered himself and family with a cloak, and started the tradition of Mubahala."

Which collections, which hadeeth numbers. How can we tell if this is just quoting some da'if or munqir ahadeeth? The only hadeeth brought from Sunni collections so far was the Sahih in regards to covering them up, but this says (a) collections and (b) it expands on what the Sahih hadeeth says.

--xx-Mohammad Mufti-xx 19:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

if you refer to the tafseer of at-tabaree you will see that he quotes a number of reports where one of the wives asks if she is a part of it and the reply is no, but if you read further some other reports are also mentioned where the answer is yes. but then again we would require reliable sources plus the relevant tasheeh made of the specific narrations for it to be a suitable inclusion ITAQALLAH 21:49, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sunni POV[edit]

one may wish to add this narration also from al-bukhaari which can be used in the sunni view section here and on the ahl al-bayt article which states the following:

006.060.316 Narrated Anas:

A banquet of bread and meat was held on the occasion of the marriage of the Prophet to Zainab bint Jahsh. I was sent to invite the people (to the banquet), and so the people started coming (in groups); They would eat and then leave. Another batch would come, eat and leave. So I kept on inviting the people till I found nobody to invite. Then I said, "O Allah's Prophet! I do not find anybody to invite." He said, "Carry away the remaining food." Then a batch of three persons stayed in the house chatting. The Prophet left and went towards the dwelling place of Aisha and said, "Peace and Allah's Mercy be on you, O the people of the house!" She replied, "Peace and the mercy of Allah be on you too. How did you find your wife? May Allah bless you." Then he went to the dwelling places of all his other wives and said to them the same as he said to Aisha and they said to him the same as Aisha had said to him. Then the Prophet returned and found a group of three persons still in the house chatting. The Prophet was a very shy person, so he went out (for the second time) and went towards the dwelling place of 'Aisha. I do not remember whether I informed him that the people have gone away. So he returned and as soon as he entered the gate, he drew the curtain between me and him, and then the Verse of Al-Hijab was revealed.

- ITAQALLAH 21:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I already added that hadith but I had only mentioned Al'Nisai. But now that it's been brought to light, I've also added reference to the Sahih Bukhari narration (which I didn't know about before so JazakAllah)--xx-Mohammad Mufti-xx 21:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

also a problem in this and many other shi'te-sunni/POV fork articles is that there are too many "counter-arguments" and counters of counters etc, in that one opinion will be given and then the opposing opinion will be expressed as a counter which clearly tilts the balance. ITAQALLAH 22:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This Article is a stub[edit]

This Article is a stub!!!!!!!!!>...The person who wrote does not have sufficient knowledge...no offense!!!!!!!!!

Firstly an article related to the Hadis of Cloak and the event already exists on wikipedia!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_Event_of_the_Cloak

Secondly....The person confused two distinct events into a single event!!!!The Hadis of Cloak and The Wakia of Mubahila!!!!

The Hadis of clock occured on 3rd Hijra acording to some records, while some people say its 5 Hijra...However!!! I believe the correct is about 7 or 8 Hijra!!!!!!!!as both Imam Hussan (RA) and Hussain (RA) came walking to Their mother Fatima (RA)....and the Imam Hassan (RA) was born on 2nd Hijra, while Imam Hussain (RA) born on 3rd Hijra....

Irrespective of the date when it occured....the two events are separate and different!!!

The second event of Mubahila occured on 2th Zil Hajja, 10 Hijra. An article for this event also already exists!!!!!!!!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mubahila DaDexter 13:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Ahl al-Kisa. --PeaceNT (talk) 04:42, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hadith of The Cloak[edit]

Because The Article contains incorrect information, and articles regarding it alredy exist the page should be deleted DaDexter (talk) 15:19, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This Article is a stub.The person who wrote the article does not have sufficient knowledge.No offense!

Firstly an article related to the Hadith of Cloak and the event already exists on wikipedia!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_Event_of_the_Cloak

Secondly,The person confused two distinct events into a single event! The Hadis of Cloak and The Event of Mubahila.

The Hadis of clock occured on 3rd Hijra acording to some records, while some people say its 5 Hijra...However, I believe the correct is about 7 or 8 Hijra, as both Imam Hussan (AS) and Imam Hussain (AS) came walking to Their mother Fatima (AS) and Imam Hassan (AS) was born on 2nd Hijra, while Imam Hussain (AS) was born on 3rd Hijra, Thus they time can not 3rd or 5th Hijra.

Irrespective of the date when it occured,the two events are separate and different.

The second event of Mubahila occured on 2nd Zil Hajja, 10 Hijra. An article for this event also already exists. See the page on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mubahila

DaDexter (talk) 15:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Wikipedia should have one article on this subject; currently, we have Hadith of The Cloak and Hadith of the Event of the Cloak, both of which have existed on Wikipedia for years. I am insufficiently versed in the nuances of Muslim theology to form an opinion about which of these articles has the more appropriate title, or about which contains the best neutral, verifiable content. I have left a note at WP:WikiProject Islam's talk page requesting input from users familiar with this subject. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 15:50, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge this and Hadith of the Event of the Cloak into Ahl al-Kisa. In the past a consensus was developed that most of the "Hadith of..." articles on Wikipedia were unencyclopedic and unnecessary forks of other articles (after which many more have been prodded and deleted). The article is about a report (hadith) - it has little significance outside the context of the topic of Ahl al-Kisa (and as such is not inherently notable in and of itself). The latter is currently a stub and could do with more discussion of the underlying reports in the article itself. Similarly, other such "Hadith of..." articles should be implemented into the general topics they are considered significant to. ITAQALLAH 22:01, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Although I disagree with Itaqallah about Hadith article and I think we can have encyclopedic Hadith articles, but in this case Hadith of the Event of the Cloak and Ahl al-Kisa refer to the same thing.--Seyyed(t-c) 14:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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New edits[edit]

The content of the article was largely unsourced or poorly sourced, and contained some repetitions and long quotes. Ideally, it should be focused on who the Ahl al-Kisa are, the origins of the name, and an overview of their role/significance in Islam. The article shouldn't focus on who the Ahl al-Bayt are or who the Verse of Purification refers to. (These should be done on Ahl al-Bayt and Verse of Purification, respectively, and summarized here.) The article was rewritten to address these issues. Albertatiran (talk) 17:11, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]