Talk:Air Greenland/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: WackyWace ^{you talkin' to me?} 11:46, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Second opinion: Overall this is a well sourced article with a lot of work put into it. Nice job. § Music Sorter § (talk) 16:59, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was in Greenland for several weeks, and couldn't have commented earlier. I will add replies piece-wise, though I will not address everything in one sitting. — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Images

Woah! Image overload! Whilst images make an article interesting and more comfortable to read, there are far, far too many images in the article. There is no point in the article - excluding the references section - where one cannot see any images. For example, take a look at the article on British Airways, which has been awarded GA status. Whilst the article is longer, you can see that there aren’t images all the way down the right hand side of the page. I would say that to get to GA status, you will have to get rid of at least half of the photographs, possibly even more. One example that could go instantly is the image of M/S Sarfaq Ittuk - this has essentially noting to do with the airline.

I agree there are too many images per Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Placement. § Music Sorter § (talk) 05:29, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Trimmed non-essential images. That done, I have to say I object to one-size-fits-all rule for a specific number of images. Unlike, say, Ryanair, which uses a single type of aircraft, Air Greenland utilizes a very varied fleet, and flies in an extremely diverse environment, and illustrations should reflect that. Most of photos for BA and many traditional airlines differ very little, and so does their fleet. There is enough text to support the images, and I will retain the current images (subject to replacements of better ones as they appear). All major types of aircraft used by Air Greenland should be used as illustration, in as varied locations as possible, reflecting the environment. Similarly, catering and cabin photos are important for the article, and all current images serve a purpose, and are not a mere collection of photos, as is the case for most airline articles. I consider this fixed, and will object to further removals. — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Intro

The first sentence uses "by" three times, but in this series the first "by" is the only one necessary and this somewhat complicated sentence would read easier. § Music Sorter § (talk)

In the final sentence you can drop the "at" just before "79.3%." § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In that same final sentence the term "cabin factor" is used, but there is no other mention of what that is in the rest of the article. I see it is a common airline term, but it is not likely a generally known term. I found this article http://www.thaiair.com/documents/tenyear.pdf from Thai Airlines on page 2 it defines Cabin factor. You can add a footnote to "cabin factor" and add the text "Revenue passengers-kilometres expressed as percentage of available seat-kilometres" at the end of the resource notation. § Music Sorter § (talk)

A general comment − the lead will be completely rewritten, and refs moved to sections, which will be expanded as needed. — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. — Algkalv (talk) 04:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

History

“In 1965, Douglas DC-4 became the first larger aircraft used by Greenlandair” - this should be either “a Douglas DC-4” or “Douglas DC-4s”. DC-4s are not used in the same way as “water cannon” or “sheep”.

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

With regards to the caption, which reads “Sikorsky S-61N helicopter, acquired in 1965, is the oldest machine in the fleet.” This should be “A Sikorsky S-61N helicopter”.

I would like to clarify I believe the caption should read the same as it does originally with the addition of "A" at the beginning of the sentence, but don't cut it off after helicopter. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the sentence ending "...villages of Disko Bay during winter." the sources are listed out of numeric order. It should be 3 followed by 9. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The opening sentence for the section "1970s" there are two sources identified, but they are both 10. Remove one of them and place the other at the end of the sentence. If the second sentence in that first paragraph is also sourced from reference #10 then move footnote to the end of the sentence. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the sentence "...spurned further investment in the helicopter fleet, with the newly acquired Bell 206 machines." drop the words "newly acquired." If the point of the sentence was that the Bell 206 machines were new and not used then replace "newly acquired" with just "new." § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence "After its closure in 1990, the mine is due to reopen in November 2010, with zinc and iron ore reserves expected to last for 50 years." is not clear. Did the source mean "The mine was closed in 1990 and scheduled to reopen in November 2010, with zinc and iron ore reserves expected..."? § Music Sorter § (talk)

Clarified. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In "The supply flights to the mine are again operated by Air Greenland..." the use of "again" is somewhat confusing and unnecessary, also the switch to Air Greenland is not explained until later. Is the point of the sentence to show the same airline ran these supply flights for as long as the mine existed? If so then one solution is to rewrite the sentence as "The airline operated the supply flights to the mine..." § Music Sorter § (talk)

Rewritten. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the sentence "...increased to 60,000, or more than the total population of Greenland." it would flow better to replace the "or" with "which is". § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the sentence "In order to service the enlarged network, Greenlandair acquired..." add the comma shown here. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the sentence "Several of the airports built at that time still have no deicing equipment at the airport..." clarify by replacing "at that time" with "in the 1980s". § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You mention the airline typically names all it’s aircraft. Make sure when these names are mentioned they are all formatted in the same manner.

I am not sure what this means myself. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article mentions several aircraft which have been given names by Air Greenland. Some of the names are italicised, some are not, and I am requesting that there be standard formatting when mentioning these names - either italicised or not, not sometimes italicised and sometimes not. WackyWace ^{converse | contribs} 16:59, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Now understood and agreed. § Music Sorter § (talk) 17:01, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the sentence "Greenlandair was, for the first time since its inception, able to provide plane services..." add the two commas as shown here. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the 2000s section the last five sections all start in a similar way, almost as if you couldn’t decide whether to use a list or write it with prose, and ended up with something in the middle. Whilst it is practical, having the start of five paragraphs sounding very similar does not enhance readability.

Agreed. § Music Sorter § (talk)

“Air Greenland announced opening of new connections with Iceland” should be “Air Greenland announced the opening of new connections with Iceland” or ““Air Greenland announced it was opening new connections with Iceland”.

Agreed. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the article correctly uses the comma after "date month year," statements, but a few are missing
- 7 November 1960
- 1 October 2007 § Music Sorter § (talk)

AFAIK, the comma shouldn't be there. Could you provide a link to the policy which says otherwise? — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the sentence "The Narsarsuaq–Copenhagen service is operated by a Boeing 757-200 of Air Finland[31]." the footnote should be outside all punctuation. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the sentence "In 2010, after the tourist season (May-September), this service..." add the comma after "september)". § Music Sorter § (talk) 05:29, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 00:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Destinations

“Air Greenland domestic airport network includes all 13 civilian airports within Greenland.” Do you mean “Air Greenland’s domestic airport network includes all 13 civilian airports within Greenland.”?

Yes. Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

“Out of 45 heliports served, 8 are primary” Please clarify the word ‘primary’ for people unfamiliar with aviation terminology.

In that same sentence the term "Helistop" is used in this article and most of the other Greenland-related aviation articles, but there is no definition or explanation how a helistop is different from a heliport. One solution is to wikilink helistop and then redirect helistop to heliport with a description of the difference in that article. I found very little online for helistop, but I did find this http://www.syms.rotor.com/new8.htm. § Music Sorter § (talk)

The difference lies in the infrastructure (and most of the primary ones serve as helicopter bases). Clarified in the article. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the term heliport is ever wikilinked to the Heliport article. That would be a great wikilink for this article since it is referenced so many times. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Good idea. Will link it from the new lead. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. — Algkalv (talk) 04:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fleet

Consider linking ‘Inuit’ to ‘Inuit art’, rather than ‘Inuit’.

That same sentence uses "Inuit artwork" and that can wikilink to "Inuit art". § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

“In 2010 the airline acquired the first de Havilland Canada Dash-8 Q200” Their first de Havilland Canada Dash-8 Q200, or the first de Havilland Canada Dash-8 Q200 off the production line?

The former. Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The table on "Air Greenland Plane Fleet" might look better with a title matching the subsection as "Air Greenland Fixed-wing Fleet". § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The same table shows a column for Orders, but all the data is "0". If there is an expectation this data will be updated regularly (or other Greenland airlines have orders outstanding) then it would make sense, otherwise it should be removed and possibly a comment added above or below that there are no outstanding orders as of that date. Note that the Helicopter Fleet table does not include the "orders" column. They should be consistent. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the sentence "The Bell 212 is the primary helicopter used for settlement flights." I see it is defined in a subsection below this use. I am not sure if it is acceptable to wikilink within an article or if that would be considered a circular reference? I would think it is OK to use [[Air_Greenland#Settlement_flights]]. § Music Sorter § (talk)

I'd be wary of adding mid-article fragment anchors. Reworded. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

“In the past Air Greenland used the following aircraft” - did this include the period where the airline was named Greenlandair? Please clarify.

In that sentence "In the past" needs a comma before "Air Greenland". One solution to the above comment would be to say "In the past, Air Greenland (and Greenlandair) used the following aircraft:" § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Service

The name of this section may be confusing to people unfamiliar with airline terminology. Service is likely to be considered "repair" or "maintenance". If the section was "Air service" that would help differentiate it. § Music Sorter § (talk)

This is the standard for airline articles, although 'service' can be 'services'. 'Air service' is not a good replacement though. I will follow Singapore Airlines here. Also, a section on highly specialized charter flights is missing now. I will add. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The term "ferry" can be wikilinked. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Subsidiary companies

The first sentence is a run-on sentence and should be broken up. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It would be interesting to know who has the other 50% stake in Arctic Umiaq Line. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Royal Arctic Line, the shipping company. I think this information would rather belong to Arctic Umiaq Line article, as it is not directly relevant for Air Greenland. I will add it though if you really think it's necessary. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The footnotes for Tourism companies should be in numeric order. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The same sentence uses "outfitter" and "travel agency" which can be wikilinked. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Linked the latter. Linking the former would mislead the reader, as the current article is about clothing, and not tour and custom tailored trip service provider, which is another meaning of the word, and has no article of its own. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Accidents and incidents

Consider changing the first sentence to “a DHC-3 Otter, registered CF-MEX, crashed…”

Agreed. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

“On 12 May 1962, a Catalina with registration CF-IHA crashed during landing at Nuuk” There are multiple issues with this sentence - consider changing it to read “On 12 May 1962, a PBY Catalina, registered CF-IHA, crashed during landing at Nuuk Airport”

Agreed. § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

“The accident was caused by a mechanical malfunctioning in the nose wheel doors causing it to remain open while the flying boat landed on water, causing the aircraft to sink into the water” doesn’t read particularly well.

There are too many "causes" in that sentence. What about "The accident was caused by a mechanical ~~malfunctioning~~ malfunction in the nose wheel doors preventing them from closing as the flying boat landed on the water, resulting in the aircraft sinking." § Music Sorter § (talk)

Fixed. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

Rather than writing “(in Danish)” after every Danish reference, consider using Template:da icon

Agreed. § Music Sorter § (talk)

This is not a good idea. The "(in Danish)" is part of the {{cite}} templates, which uses the |language=Danish to make the language part of a reference. This is the preferred way of indicating the language. Arsenikk ^(talk) 15:06, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What Arsenikk said, this is part of the widely-used template. — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result

Because of the number of issues raised above by myself and Music Sorter, I have taken the decision to fail this article's first GAN. The article is well sourced and the users who have made the article what it is now deserve a lot of praise. In terms of references, this is one of the best articles out there - however there are quite a few major issues with this article that need sorting before GA status can be awarded. These issues are unlikely to be fixed in a week due to the nature and number of them, and the nominator is on a Wikibreak. Once the issues have been addressed, please feel free to renominate the article. Thanks, WackyWace ^{converse | contribs} 18:50, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The number of issues might have been large, but all of them are cosmetic, and are easily fixed within a day, but I had no chance to respond, even though I proposed the article some 2 weeks before the actual review took place. I think that this could have been put on hold instead of failing the article.

I addressed all concerns raised here, and what remains to be done is rewrite the lead purging it of refs, as indicated above. I also have plans for a new section, but that is unrelated to this review. Will you provide feedback on all the changes I have made, or do you want me to resubmit the article for another GA review once the lead is done? — Algkalv (talk) 02:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I think I addressed all concerns, and expanded the article further as well. Please specify whether you'll provide feedback here, or whether you want a new GA submission, so that I know what to do. — Algkalv (talk) 04:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]