Talk:Al-Bassa

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Were the Muslims of al-Bassa Sunni or Shia?

I'm trying to sort out the history of Metawalis (Shi'ite Muslims) in Palestine, and there are contradictions regarding this place.

Napoleon described al-Bassa as a village of Metawalis in 1799 (which is probably too long ago to draw conclusions about recent times).
The 1922 census classified all the Muslims in al-Bassa as Metawali. The 1931 census does not appear to provide a classification.
Asher Kaufman, Between Palestine and Lebanon: Seven Shi'i Villages as a Case Study of Boundaries, Identities, and Conflict, Middle East Journal, Vol. 60, No. 4 (Autumn, 2006), pp. 685-706 describes al-Bassa in 1920–1923 as "split between Sunnis and Greek Catholics", in contradiction to the 1922 census.
Khalid Sindawi, Are there any Shi’ite Muslims in Israel?, Journal of Holy Land Studies, 7.2 (2008) 183–199, mentions the 1922 census enumeration in a footnote but does not otherwise mention al-Bassa at all.
A 2006 newspaper article of Danny Rubinstein says that Hassan Nasrallah sometimes includes al-Bassa when he calls for return of the Shi'ite villages to Lebanon.

So my question is: what other evidence is there? Zero^talk 02:50, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Now I have received mail from an acknowledged expert: the 1922 census had a mistake and this has been confirmed by people from the village. Zero^talk 06:55, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Error to be corrected on the date imported from the 1922 census

@Zero0000: Hello, there is a serious error in the section about the 1922 census. The text here, on Wp en, mentions only 150 Mehawedi (shii muslims), and then states that another source (Kaufman) speaks also about sunnites in the village. But it is because whoever wrote from the 1922 Census source forgot one column : the first column of the report (online [1]) indeed also indicates 366 "Mohammedans" (sunnites, thus, I suppose), who are not mentionned on the wp page ! I cannot correct myself because of the protection (I am mostly a contributor on Wp fr). I have "corrected" on the French version. But I see that 6 six years ago (above), there was an issue about the 1922 census and the contradictions, but it is not clear to me if the issue is about the "real" census, or what is reported from it in Wikipedia (which as I said is not correct). Also, of course, we cannot use hearsay as a source. If the census is really false, what is the correct source (those I looked at used the census) ? In any case, the total number here is not correct, etc. Thank you ! --Cgolds (talk) 09:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This has just been dealt with. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:00, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Census of 1922

In the article says "The British census of September 1922 listed a population of The British census of September 1922 listed a population of 867 Christians, 150 Metawalis and 1 Jew", but the census says (page 39, table XI) 867 Christians, 366 "Mohammedans" (Sunni, I think), 150 Metawalis and 1 Jew (the article was written ignoring the 366 Sunni in the census) MiguelMadeira (talk) 17:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ✅ - IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:58, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The text now reads "The British census of September 1922 listed a population of 867 Christians, 366 "Mohammedans", 150 Metawilehs, and 1 Jew." IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:28, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@MiguelMadeira:@IOHANNVSVERVS: Of course it is true that the census listed 366 Mohammedans. Regarding Metawilehs, there is an issue. This place is not included in Asher Kaufman's papers about Metawilehs in Palestine. About a decade ago I wrote to him about it and he replied that he had concluded that the census was erroneous and he had confirmed his suspicion by talking to people from the village. That is, he believes there were no Metawilehs there. The numbers in the census are also suspiciously round: 75+75=150. The NOR rule of course prevents me from adding this private communication to the article, but I'm wondering if at least the indirect evidence of not being in Kaufman's list should be included. Zero^talk 00:31, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. Our article does say that: Asher Kaufman described the village as being "split between Sunnis and Greek Catholics." IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:35, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we could write «Asher Kaufman did not include it in his paper about Metawilehs in Palestine[some source] and described the village as being "split between Sunnis and Greek Catholics"[29]»? MiguelMadeira (talk) 12:38, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]