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A fact from Alienation (speech) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 6 September 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
ALT1:... that Jimmy Reid was inspired to write his speech on social alienation after witnessing the emotional reaction of Clyde shipbuilders to the sinking of the former RMS Queen Elizabeth(pictured) in 1972? "he claimed that when he wrote the address he was influenced by some old shipyard workers he had met in Connolly's bar some months before, 'wiping away their tears' at the news of the sinking of the Queen Elizabeth in Hong Kong harbour" from: Knox, W. W. J.; McKinlay, Alan (2019). Jimmy Reid: A Clyde-built man. Oxford University Press. ISBN978-1-78962-492-2. page 144
Overall: Fascinating article, tks for your work! I think ALT2 needs reworking to use, since the spinning in their graves is an opinion, not a fact. ALT0 is the most hooky imo. (t · c) buidhe 06:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks buidhe, ALT0 is my favourite too - Dumelow (talk) 08:17, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
Very high-quality referencing. I can access enough of the sources to make a judgement that the citations verify what they are cited for.
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
Is the article meant to just follow WP:MINREF, rather than the inline citations necessarily covering all of the content between it and the previous citation? I notice that, for instance, the reference at the end of the paragraph doesn't mention Jimmy Reid was an Amalgamated Engineering Union leader, and the same for Reid warned his audience not to hate the capitalists who he stated were also a product of the alienation in society (not quite, at least – it doesn't verify "were also a product of the alienation"). These two facts seem uncontroversial and easily referenced enough that it's fine if this is the style.
When was Reid's term exactly? April 1972 until 3 years later? Spell this out in "Background".
Three years from election, done - Dumelow (talk) 07:57, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
... helped resolve student issues, such as the eviction of a group of five undergraduates from their hall of residence in February – This has the faint implication that Reid ensured the eviction, but I'm guessing his aim was to prevent it?
Some disruption was caused when two students dressed as a pink pantomime horse attempted to enter the hall – Do we know why? At protest against Reid's appointment? (On what grounds?)
The source didn't specify, probably just a student jape - Dumelow (talk) 08:25, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The source uses system of production, but i think mode of production is better and have linked to the Marxist theory article - Dumelow (talk) 08:25, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
... led to workers having little understanding ... – This applies specifically to the proletariat/working class, right? Someone unfamiliar with the topic might think it also applies to owners of the means of production, so could be worth saying the class rather than just "workers", and maybe linking.
Good point, used working class - Dumelow (talk) 08:25, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Should the Bute Hall and RMS Queen Elizabeth images be swapped? It looks like they appear next to the opposite paragraph to where they're mentioned.
Yes, not sure why I had them back to front - Dumelow (talk) 08:25, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Though he framed his argument with reference to the shipbuilding industry Reid's address – Comma after "industry"?
"quoted Christ" – Worth adding the specific verse?
Yes, good idea. I assumed, given the wording, that it came from the King James Version but it appears to be closest to an 1899 American edition, strangely. Note added to article - Dumelow (talk) 08:25, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
He lamented wasted potential saying "I am convinced that ..." – Should be a comma before "saying".
Reid's biographers William Knox and Adam McKinlay state that the address had a liberal, middle-class and "almost Victorian" tone in the way it espouses the virtues of public service – "stated" (we quote critical analysis in past tense) and I think either "address has" or "it espoused" (consistent tense for the speech).
Yep, went for espoused - Dumelow (talk) 09:38, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The speech was reprinted in full in The New York Times which hailed it – Comma after The New York Times.
In Glasgow newspaper the Evening Times – false titles are slightly un-British English so maybe "In the Glasgow newspaper", but definitely "The Evening Times" (italics including "The") as it's part of the newspaper name.
A pleasure to review, much good work so far. Apologies that it's been so long in the queue. — Bilorv (talk) 00:36, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much for your review Bilorv, it's much appreciated (to be honest I forgot I had listed this one!). I agree with all your suggestions and have made changed to the article per my responses above. I've also sorted out the referencing issues you picked up (I accidentally merged text I intended to source with unsourced text in an early edit & the other bit was sourced fromt he speech itself) - Dumelow (talk) 09:38, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just an inline citation needed to the text of the speech (e.g. via the external link at the bottom) in the second footnote, as it's a direct quote and WP:V requires it, and then I'm happy. I've also done a couple of changes here that I think you forgot to implement but marked "Done" (feel free to revert if that wasn't the intention, these small changes won't be a dealbreaker for GA). Otherwise the responses fix everything I could find. — Bilorv (talk) 15:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Bilorv I've used the University of Glasgow text of the speech but left it also as an External Link also as I think it is useful to the reader. Thanks for fixing those items I missed, I must have lost an edit somewhere along the line - Dumelow (talk) 16:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Great, that's a pass for GA from me! Thanks for the quick replies. — Bilorv (talk) 16:43, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fascinating article, tks for your work! I think ALT2 needs reworking to use, since the spinning in their graves is an opinion, not a fact. ALT0 is the most hooky imo. (t · c) buidhe 06:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
