Talk:Antigone (Sophocles play)/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Title

Shouldn't the title of this article read Antigone (Play) rather than Antigone (Sophocles)? -Haon 16:04, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

There is another play by Jean Anouilh called Antigone, although we have called that Antigone (Anouilh play) here, so perhaps we could move this to "Antigone (Sophocles play)". Adam Bishop 16:54, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Is the existance of a DVD relevent?

It seems to me that the fact that Antigone is on DVD is information that many people would be glad to know, especially if they do not live in a major city, where they can hope to see the play live. Please explain your deletion. Rick Norwood 15:07, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it's relevant, but the dvd should probably just be linked in the "External links" section. It would probably be best to link to its article on IMDb rather than to a site trying to sell the dvd like Amazon. Theshibboleth 07:30, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

In'ernet

Is there a copy of this play available as a PDF file on the internet, or something like that?--SteelersFan UK06 01:10, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Antigone image.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 17:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

References?

"Antigones seems to be in love with her dead brother which links to the forbidden relationship between Oedipus and Jocasta while the fratricidal conflict of Eteocoles and Polynices has echos of Oedipus's patricide of Laius."

Not only are there several grammatical errors in the above quote, but I am also not sure how someone came up with the interpretation that Antigone was in love with her brother romatically. Any thoughts?

Ariggs 04:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Antigone loved her brother the same way every person loves his siblings. There is nothing "romantic" about it AFAIK (And even if there was, one should find appropriate sources). Regarding the conflict between Eteocles and Polyneices echoing Oedipus patricide... I don't know, I believe that the only relation is being part of the same cycle (Theban Cycle). Ancient theatre is full of homicides! 62.1.107.222


The appropriate source in this case would be the play itself. "I shall be content to lie beside the brother I love." (Phile met' autou kesomai, philou meta ll. 72-73 et passim). It helps to actually read a text before you comment. I am so sick of Wikidiots making generalizations about subjects they know absolutely nothing about. Go back to HALO and hot pockets.139.179.110.34 (talk) 19:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You quote it entirely out of context and gave a pretty poor translation of it. It says, "Dear to him I will lie with him, with my dear one." "Philos" does not have a sexual connotation, it is used between family members and close friends, and "keimai" can't mean "lie with" in the sense of have sex with, only to lie down and be unmoving. The context of the line is that she's ready to die and will be lying down dead just like her brother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.140.100.188 (talk) 22:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! I guess somebody isn't a "Wikidiot" around here. The entire sentence says, φίλη μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ κείσομαι, φίλου μέτα,

ὅσια πανουργήσασ᾽. (phile meta autou keisomai, philou meta, hosia panourgesas.) First, the word philia. Greek had 5 words for "love". There was eros, sexual desire, agape, used in ancient text to describe loving a physical object (I would love a new TV), storge, familial love like that a parent has for a child, thelema, the desire to do something (I desire to go to sleep), and finally philia, friendship or the love between to siblings, as is relevant in this case. Second, the word "keimai" in ancient texts has a passive meaning in the indicative, meaning to be laid ie. in a tomb. And the last part of the sentence which has been left out is "hosia panourgesas" which is most closely translated as "a god-fearing criminal" or "a pious knave". So the full translation is, with the most relevant translation of "philos, phile": "A loved one to him I will be laid beside him, beside my loved one, a pious knave." Again, thanks to the immediately above user. Erik the Red 2 (talk) 01:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

an-TIH-guh-NEE

Perhaps someone who knows IPA can get that pronunciation back up. On the meanwhile, I've replaced it with the Greek equivalent. --Brazucs (TALK | CONTRIBS) 05:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

An-tie-gon Mr. Quertee 00:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

An-tig-on-ee. At least, thats the way I've learned it...we'd need a proper greek source though --The Wizard of Magicland 18:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

It is An-tig-on-ee. Greek usually pronounces all Latin Letters, meaning that the "e" on the end is not left silenced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.81.181.107 (talk) 23:15, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

More Info

I think that we should add some more info on the characters and whatnot. Some symbols, the theme, you know, stuff that you need to know when analyzing literature. Stuff that'll help people understand the play better. Not just a summary!216.253.64.82 17:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC) ~MiniAntigone


It would be great if there was a section which gave summaries of all the myths and stories referenced by the chorus because what they are saying is all but incomprehensible without that background. Matt24 (talk) 17:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

"The problem of the second burial" - Another point of view

Antigone didn't perform the burial rites the first time. The guard said that there was no evidence of anybody coming or going, yet rites had been performed. The gods performed the rites the fist time. This also clarifies that the gods were in Antigone's favor. Therefore, Antigone didn't know that the burial had already been performed. When she got caught it was her one and only attempt to perform rites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.41.122.48 (talk) 20:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Antigone and Antigone (Sophocles)

I noticed some confusion on Antigone and hope to have cleaned it up a bit. I moved the EL from Antigone to Antigone (Sophocles), since they were all referring to the play and not the general mythological figure. I also added a disambiguation line to Antigone because I believe the play is likely the desired destination for many who are searching for the term. There was obvious confusion between the two articles. Hope this helps. Hslibrarygal (talk) 18:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok, now I see that the two translation links that I moved over in EL were already on this page, so I removed those. I will hunt around for some other helpful EL to round out this section. Making progress. :-) Hslibrarygal (talk) 19:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Dead Link

"Dudley Fitts and Robert Fitzgerald, 1938 - verse: full text"

The link is dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.51.152.40 (talk) 22:24, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: historical context and date.

There is a strain of scholarship that suggests Antigone was written as a result of the Samian Revolt, rather than Sophocles' serving as a general in that conflict due to the success of Antigone. In his Life of Pericles, Plutarch recounts the allegation that Pericles orchestrated the torture and slaughter of the Samian combatants after their surrender. He then committed the further offense of refusing their burial, opting instead to dump the bodies in the city streets and outside the city walls. These atrocities, it has been suggested, in turn inspired Sophocles to produce Antigone. Plutarch himself disbelieved this charge, and it is not found in any other source. The story of Athens' brutality is not implausible, but it is easy to see how the sequence Antigone (burial issues) --> Sophocles served at Samos could be transformed over time to Samian Revolt (burial issues) --> Antigone (burial issues). Food for thought. Ifnkovhg (talk) 06:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Sourced or not, the idea that the Antigone makes no commentary on its political times, is absurd on its face. KenThomas (talk) 22:05, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

the "portrayal of the gods" section is pretty weak tea.

The first sentence is just wrong. Zeus' 13 mentions aren't chump change, especially when you consider that Hades only rates 11. Death gets 26, but given the subject matter that shouldn't be surprising. The rest is just OR nonsense. Ifnkovhg (talk) 23:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Like much of the article, this is unsourced and its significance unclear. This article often reads like a combination between Original Research and a compilation of high school papers on the Antigone. The OR concern needs to be addressed overall, but I'm unsure why this particular section should stand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KenThomas (talk • contribs) 22:20, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Peridon (talk) 20:26, 10 September 2011 (UTC)


Antigonê (Sophocles) → Antigone (Sophocles) – To revert the recent undiscussed move. Per WP:DIACRITICS, reliable source usage is to be followed when deciding whether to include diacritics. A GBooks search gives: Antigone (507K) vs. Antigonê (223) --Cybercobra (talk) 22:37, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

  • Support I get 111,000 post-1980 English-language Google Book hits overall, 10 for the diacritic -- and several of these are actually in French. Not even Britannica uses it. Kauffner (talk) 13:19, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Support, because search-engine comparison result is "overwhelming" (per WP:DIACRITICS) and for consistency with the title of Antigone (and the redirect from her page to this one). It might be helpful to include the play's IPA code ((/ænˈtɪɡəniː/ here (as well as on Antigone's own page). That would cover the idiosyncratic English pronounciation of the final letter, without pushing an abnormal hat. --Wragge (talk) 13:57, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Support per WP:COMMONNAME and common usage among classicists - in fact accents in Greek are a post-classical invention so Sophocles didn't even use them. – ukexpat (talk) 15:02, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Support. This is not the Greek accent, which is on the o, nor the English accent, on the i; it means that the final e is long. This archaic convention will be understood only by those who know the Greek spelling, and don't need it. JCScaliger (talk) 22:42, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment I'm sorry for moving it. I really didn't think it would be controversial. I'm going to move the page back now. Sorry again, and happy editing! pluma Ø 17:15, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
I couldn't move it. We need an Admin. pluma Ø 17:19, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

{{admin help}}. As we have unanimity, including the original mover, please perform the currently requested move so as to return things to the status quo. --Cybercobra (talk) 18:36, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Done - the diacritic version has been left as a redirect. You never know... Peridon (talk) 20:26, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Translation

Who else wrote a translation of this play?

E.F. Watling
I went ahead and added a bunch of translations, and linked the ones that are available on the net. This list is by no means complete, the main source I used is from the 60's. If someone knows of a source with a more complete list, can you provide the link? I would like to provide a good list of translations for the other greek plays and classics. - Ravenous 03:43, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
How about http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Antigone ?
Just wanted to add that I fixed the mention of Ian Johnston's translation- the date on the website is 2005 (not 2003 as listed, I believe he updated it) and I felt it critical to point out that the particular translation was into modern english. I had in fact been searching for this and didn't think to check it from Wiki because this was not noted, and felt the note could help in the future. --JaymzRR 07:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Added Richard Emil Braun —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.219.115.10 (talk) 19:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Added Robin Bond's modern English verse translation as part of a program of releasing all of his translations of the Greek plays as CC-BY. --Antonangelo (talk) 03:50, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

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Haemon

On Melvyn Bragg's In Our Time tonight (Thursday 24 March 2022), it was said that Haemon is the fiance of Antigone. Should this not be included in the list of characters? YTKJ (talk) 22:09, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

 Already done. Here is the external link to the Antigone program (recommended, as always). Alexcalamaro (talk) 12:39, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Antigone is not the protagonist.

Kreon is the protagonist. Antigone is, if anything, the antagonist 2601:1C0:8483:4B80:D921:1DA6:D617:EFE3 (talk) 17:21, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

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