Talk:Aristide Razu/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Question

Dear Sir/Madam, My name is Andrei Radu Georgescu,user Aristiderazu.I have just wrote an article about my great grand father General of Division Aristide Razu.From some reasons the article has been deleted speedy. Well I do not understand(!?). Kind regards, Andrei Radu Georgescu —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aristiderazu (talk • contribs) 18:37, 7 June 2010

I have refactored this comment by removing the email address because email is not used here, except when rarely needed for confidential information. Collaboration is encouraged by open discussions held on talk pages. Johnuniq (talk) 03:50, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Improvement of Aristide Razu article

Hi,

It's me again,I keep seeing these signs over the article that I wrote /and was improved by others...etc./thanks! What do I have to do to improve it further?Or is anybody better suited for it? Kind regards.Aristiderazu (talk) 20:22, 26 June 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu

The signs themselves contain links to relevant Wikipedia help pages, but here's a summary:
  • Additional references or sources for verification - The article has a list of books and web links, but it is not yet clear where each fact comes from. Have a look at a more typical Wikipedia article, for example David Gower. It has lots of little footnote markers which link down to specific lines in the references section, so that a reader can check each fact against its source. See Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners. I think you should tackle this one, since you have copies of the books you are referring to.
  • Wikified to meet Wikipedia's quality standards - This refers to the number of blue links that cross-reference to other Wikipedia articles. A number of editors have helped with this, eg where Cahul was converted into Cahul, but it would be good to check if other place names can be converted into cross-references.
  • General cleanup - At least when the tag was placed, it was clear that the text had been written by someone whose first language was not English, and who was not familiar with the quirks of Wiki formatting. Other editors have improved both. I'll have a go myself when I have time in the next couple of days.
  • Conflict of interest - This tag will have to stay, since you are a relative of the general. It warns the reader to take extra care to check the facts against the references and sources.
-- John of Reading (talk) 21:45, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
Hang on, the "references" seem to be a list of people you've spoken to and places you've visited. Articles in Wikipedia must be backed up by reliable sources that readers could use to verify the facts. For example, if an article cites a newspaper they could go and find a copy; if a book, they could go to a library; if a web address, they could click through to check. I am therefore adding an original research tag as well. Click on that link to read about it. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the list of people and provided an explanation below. Johnuniq (talk) 03:50, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

References

I have removed the following from the "References" section of the article:

  • For the article about General of Division Aristide Razu: 1. Miss Rachel Wells, CVO, St James's Palace, London. 2. Constantin Kiritescu's work, "Razboiul Pentru Intregirea Romaniei 1916-1919", 3. Great War Forum 4.Andrei Radu Georgescu,great grandson of General Aristide Razu.
  • For his nationalized properties in Romania: 0. Strasbourg Tribunal 1. Guvernul Roman (Romanian Government) 2.Inalta Curte de Casatie si Justitie, Bucuresti, Romania (The High Cassation Court of Bucharest, Romania) 3. Primaria Municipiului Bucuresti (Bucharest City Hall) 4. Primarul municipiului Bucuresti 5.Arhivele nationale ale Statului Roman; and the following city/villages halls: Primaria Comunei Birsanesti/Primarul Comunei Birsanesti/secretara Comunei Birsanesti, Judetul Bacau, Romania. 7. Judecatoria Bacau, Romania 8. Primariile Judet Constanta, si a satelor/villages Mereni/Ciobanita/ Cobadin, Amzacea, Osmancea.

The above references would be useful if used by an author in a book or personal website. However, Wikipedia is a collaborative encyclopedia and a number of policies are non-negotiable (that is, they must be followed). First, we do not conduct original research. For example, someone could register an account here and claim to be the brother of a famous person, then add information to an article about that person based on their personal knowledge, or on talks they have had with the person's relatives and friends. That is not permitted here because there is no way to verify the claims. While some articles written in this manner might have good information, there would be a lot more that contained misinformation, guesses, made-up text, and outright lies. Second, all material must be verifiable using reliable sources. There are other policies (see WP:5P), but these are the most important in relation to this article. Would editors please provide other sources that can be used to verify statements in the article, because unverified claims should be removed. See the "reliable sources" link given earlier for guidance on what are acceptable sources, and add any questions here (see WP:TP). Johnuniq (talk) 03:50, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Secondary sources

A number of references have been added to the article by Aristiderazu (talk · contribs), but those references are not satisfactory for Wikipedia. For example, [1] is an image showing private correspondence. I am confident that the letter and the information it contains is genuine, but it cannot be used on Wikipedia because it could easily have been forged: it would be easy for anyone to make a document looking like the letter, then upload it to Panoramio. The verifiability policy requires that all non-obvious information must be sourced to a reliable source, and while some primary sources can be used, articles should be based on secondary sources. The hard truth is that whereas the subject of this article is probably worthy of an article, if there is not sufficient information already published by reliable sources, then an article cannot be created on Wikipedia since this is not a free website for original research. The article needs to be pruned to remove any information that is not reliably sourced; that information would be suitable for a personal website, but not Wikipedia. I have notified Aristiderazu about this comment. Johnuniq (talk) 23:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Well I presume you are referring to the 2 books I have quoted,one is "Razboiul Pentru Intregirea Romaniei 1916-1919" (the war for wholing romania 1916-1919) by Constantin Kiritescu ,and the 2nd one is is Notite Zilnice Din Razboiu 1916-1918 (daily notes from the war 1916-1918) by Marshal Alexandru Averescu. Since none of them is to be found on the web not even at Amazon.com or in Romania (hard to find) ,not even the ones at the Great War Forum knew about the Romanian Campaign 1916-1920 when we retreated from Budapest;what do you propose we do? Kind Regards

Andrei Radu GeorgescuAristiderazu (talk) 15:28, 7 November 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu

I would be glad to bring these books to UK as soon as possible and other documents of Aristide Razu,translate them even,if you wish.However some money for petrol would not hurt.Vauxhall Omega 2.5v6'98, plates S144CEH Andrei Radu Georgescu address Hasdeu Iulia 11

Sector 1
Bucharest

Aristiderazu (talk) 15:36, 7 November 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu Romania

It would be great if you could use facts from these books to expand Aristide Razu's involvement in WW1 to, say, three or four paragraphs. Please add references to the books by title and chapter and/or page number after each sentence of two, so that readers could, in theory, verify it all for themselves. You need to be writing something like:

In November 1917, the general commanded the division to move to the front line, where they won the battle.<ref>See "Razboiul Pentru Intregirea Romaniei 1916-1919" by Constantin Kiritescu, chapter 10, pages 123-125</ref>. And then the general did this other interesting thing as well.<ref>See "Razboiul Pentru Intregirea Romaniei 1916-1919" by Constantin Kiritescu, chapter 11, page 218</ref>

It doesn't matter that the books aren't in English, as you should only be using them as sources for facts about the general. (We certainly don't want to see another copy of the long translation that you posted some months ago)
The problem with all the post-1919 material in this article is that it derives from your personal research, not from published reliable sources as Wikipedia requires. So expanding the first part of the article by adding references to these books would be a step in the right direction. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

They won the Battle of Marasesti by the fact that the Romanian-Russian Front could not be broken by the Central Powers in any place.Although the Russians were running away(encouraged by the German propaganda newspapers printed in Germany in Russian Language in which they were telling the Russians "to leave the Front and go home where they will receive land";that is how the germans accomplished the task of putting Russia in to Communism) leaving their positions only to be filled with Romanian Troops.Aristiderazu (talk) 16:53, 8 November 2010 (UTC)Aristiderazu

And please do not make the mistake to think Romanian Language is like French;on the contrary it is a Latin Language ,best match would be Italian.I don't understand one word in French,but I do in Italian...Latin Language!!!Aristiderazu (talk) 16:57, 8 November 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu.

University of Reading?or just Reading.Sounds good.Aristiderazu (talk) 17:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)Aristiderazu

Well ,I understand the above tips and hints but it is complicated....If anyone from Wikipedia wishes to modify ,it is ok with meAristiderazu (talk) 21:20, 13 November 2010 (UTC) Aristiderazu

Saved references from article

References for or the article about General Aristide Razu: 1.Miss Rachel Wells,CVO,ST JAMES'S PALACE http://www.panoramio.com/photo/48101298 and Arthur ,Great Master http://www.panoramio.com/photo/36319736 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/36319745 2.Constantin Kiritescu's work "Razboiul Pentru Intregirea Romaniei 1916-1919" (The War for Wholing Romania 1916-1919),written in 1921 ,which is the written Romanian Campaign against the Central Powers,as explained in General Aristide Razu epitaf : http://www.panoramio.com/user/1288811?with_photo_id=60391693 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39151171 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39151188 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39151196 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39151207 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39151216. 3.Andrei Radu Georgescu (great grandson of General Aristide Razu) 4.And : "Notite Zilnice Din Razboiu 1916-1918" (Daily Notes of War 1916-1918) by Marshal Alexandru Averescu :http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39578346 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39578318 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39578322 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39578329 and Aristide Razu with 22nd Romanian Infantry Division http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39578340 situation at the 22nd Romanian Infantry Division 1916 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39579067 and a telegram of H.M. King Ferdinand of Romania, addressed to Alexandru Averescu,Commander of the II-nd Romanian Army, at Predeal and Cimpulung, 1916 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39579551

References for his nationalized propertier: 1.Guvernul Romaniei (Romanian Government) 2.Primaria Municipiului Bucureşti (Bucharest City Hall) http://www.panoramio.com/photo/24314050 http://www.panoramio.com/photo/24314116 3.Primaria Judetului Constanta (Constanţa County City Hall) 4.Primaria Judetului Bacău(Bacău County City Hall),and the city halls of the following villages :Birsanesti and Helegiu, Bacău County, Romania http://www.panoramio.com/photo/34930788 together with Inalta Curte De Casatie si Justitie (The High Cassation Court of Bucharest) http://www.panoramio.com/photo/38539654 and Amzacea, Ciobanita, Cobadin, former Osmancea, Constanţa County, Romania 5. European Court of Strasbourg,France.

Still plenty of problems - candidate for deletion again?

Unbalanced. Two paragraphs on the subject's life, four paras on his nationalised property. References seem to all be direct original research. Without a complete rewrite, I see an Afd coming for this article. Centrepull (talk) 11:22, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Good luck. It doesn't seem to matter at Wikipedia how badly written an article is as long as there's some argument that the subject is notable.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:43, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

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Aristide Razu

Yes, sorry maybe you know better.ThanksAristiderazu (talk) 03:56, 31 December 2016 (UTC)Aristiderazu

List of properties

Removed all listings of nationalized or confiscated by the Romanian state in 1945 ,1946, 1948,1955 ,2013 properties as they are sourced by and through original research. Can be restored after providing reliable secondary sources. --Taterian (talk) 04:43, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Well , after 1990 the Romanian state said that we can reclaim our properties .But in reality the Romanian securitate of communism , reinforced however after 1990 until 2020 , becoming thus from P.C.R. party some 11 so called democratic parties ,have changed their minds.Possibly they made these laws with returning the nationalized property after 1945, to enter Eu, Nato.So the whole communist apparatus of Romania , lives further in these nationalized houses , they have passed in private property the businesses of the Comunist Party , individually from small kiosks to hotels, fabrics,industry etc.,banks. inhabiting further the same positions as between 1948 to 1990.Si it is 1990 2020.Through sometimes crime and terror even murder they somehow manage to keep their status qvo. Now2003:CF:BF12:D8B8:1565:1541:E1A6:CCCD (talk) 19:41, 13 November 2020 (UTC)Razu.In Bucharest they entered these houses in Parcul Bonaparte between 1947 and 1950 now Parcu Primaverii and after 45 years of communism and another 30 of ,I don\t know what ,possibly neo-communism,they still live in these houses which were made like in Doctor Jivago film at first, but now they have the permission to buy them for a very small sum of money.These houses were taken in the property of S.C.Herastrau Nord during Nicolae Ceausescu or Gheorghe Gheorghiu Dej time,and during Ion Iliescu time and Claus Iohanis , we are in 2020.Not even when Ludovic Orban was mayor of Buchaerest or Traian Basescu , were these houses not returned. It is not only my house.Throughout Bucharest we are talking about some 50 000 houses possibly in all.Some people have died in 70 years of communism.Some had children.Some not.Some were politically arrested and died in prison at Ploiesti,Sighet,Poarta Alba, Jilava prisons ,some died in war ww2 .But it is not only Bucharest in Romania. 2003:CF:BF12:D8B8:1565:1541:E1A6:CCCD (talk) 19:41, 13 November 2020 (UTC)Razu 

I had a neighbour ,Siana Polizu Micsunesti  and she had a house in Snagov a villa inhabited by a securitate man name Dide. Well after she was a bit beaten by this fellow she ended up in very bad condition which i would not speak here .A woman.

My mother also died ,Gabriela Georgescu born Razu looking at Varsovia no 5 ,at the land, her house , from outsied .All in the end for these communists to not live these houses, properties ,lands.The former P.C.R. now ,P.S.D., P.N.L, P.N.T .etc.

In the end what was the process of replacing the aristocracy of Romania after 1948 , goes on and on through 2020.It does not matter if civillians, women children ,dead .They even stole and keep stealing burial places in Bellu Bucharest Cemetery.

In Barasnesti ,Bacau County , the Chapell with the parents of Aristide Razu, Doctor Aristide Razu and his wife Clara Razu , was burned down and the bones thrown away , that I could not find by today were they are .I forgot the name of the mayor of Bacau. Clearly I Georgescu Andrei-Radu , am not the only one in this situation.Must be thousands.

These former communists now celebrate ,for example, the Great War or all Romania days like there were made in communism, by them .It is a bit strange.


I am only one person. But there are there possibly thousands in this situation. The corrupt justice system of Romania works in the favor of these people. You see , in 70 years they are thousands too. All of them are in politics, army or police, to say the least,communist one.Whe we appealed to the European Courts of Rights, these communist are by now working there too.,with the new governments after 1990.When they upload a ship with sheep or grains , one house does not matter One person does not matter .And then multiplied by hundreds still does not matter.They provide military safety in the region since 1948 .Etc2003:CF:BF12:D8B8:1565:1541:E1A6:CCCD (talk) 19:51, 13 November 2020 (UTC)Razu2003:CF:BF12:D8B8:1565:1541:E1A6:CCCD (talk) 20:22, 13 November 2020 (UTC)Razu2003:CF:BF12:D8B8:1565:1541:E1A6:CCCD (talk) 20:22, 13 November 2020 (UTC)Razu

External links

Removed dead or unaccessable. --Taterian (talk) 07:10, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

CB and The Greater Romania Orders

Well ,I have noticed that this long lost CB ,Order Of The Bath decoration finally showed up.Is this from Romania, from a private collection,collector?Just asking.No offense ,because I have never seen it me self personally nor in my house or perhaps in Military Museum of Bucharest.Thank You.Aristiderazu (talk) 15:33, 8 February 2018 (UTC)AristiderazuThat goes for the other two Romanian Orders ,as well,these i have seen in the museum.SO i have a question ,Aristide Razu my Great Grand Father have done with them what?2003:CF:BBCA:94D9:C4D9:AAA4:ADBE:13FE (talk) 14:56, 9 February 2018 (UTC)Aristiderazu,possibly donated them to the Military Museum of Bukarest/Bucharest/Bucuresti , there I venever seen them at the place of Aristide Razu in the said museum, however I think I saw them at Averescu or Prezan,defenetlly I think I saw many other Orders, Ordinul Mihai Viteazu, Crucea Romaniei sau Steaua Romaniei cu spade to others ,etc, in Military Museum of Bucharest.2003:CF:BBCA:94D9:C4D9:AAA4:ADBE:13FE (talk) 14:56, 9 February 2018 (UTC)AristiderazuMaterial Staff.Here is not clear , maybe they were all deco uniforms ,donated to the museum after 1930 or etc.SOme of them ended up in after 1950 private high ranking communists figures collections.etc2003:CF:BF12:D8B8:1565:1541:E1A6:CCCD (talk) 19:18, 13 November 2020 (UTC)Razu Aristiderazu (talk) 15:00, 9 February 2018 (UTC)Aristiderazu2003:CF:BBD5:CC5:3C2E:3199:8480:6161 (talk) 23:24, 23 February 2018 (UTC)Aristideraz2003:CF:BF12:D8B8:1565:1541:E1A6:CCCD (talk) 19:18, 13 November 2020 (UTC)Razu

Orders Of Romania

So, the Romanian orders are now to a Macreanu Iulian am I to understand?Aristiderazu (talk) 18:19, 11 February 2018 (UTC)Aristiderazu

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