Talk:Ateret Cohanim

Settlers

I am new to Wikipedia editing. My information, which cited the world’s most renowned law specialist on occupation law, Eyal Benvenisti, an Israeli professor of Tel Aviv University, NYU, and Harvard, was deemed inaccurate by Galatz. This user was right to correct my initial statement that Ateret Cohanim was an organization "of settlers.” So I edited the introduction to state that it is an organization "for settlers." The primary action of the organization, as demonstrated in the Haaretz article (a fact which Galatz also edited out), is to buy property in occupied territory; however, Galatz removed this stating that a reference to accounts was unnecessary. I maintain that a reference to their accounts is necessary because it establishes that their primary action is to establish settlements in occupied territory in Jerusalem in the form of Yeshivot and the like.

I also cited international Israeli law expert Eyal Benvenisti, again, to demonstrate that East Jerusalem is considered occupied under international law, though Israeli law disputes this. Galatz edited this out. This is unequivocal fact, though it is disputed. Both the opinions of international law and Israeli customary law must be cited. The page of Israeli Settlement confirms this understanding.

I look forward to Galatz’s response. I trust that she will cite & demonstrate a proficient understanding of international law in the user's response & I look forward to learning more about international law by having a conversation with this user. I also look forward to learning how this process works. HereWeGoEditing (talk) 19:27, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

@HereWeGoEditing: I wrote a response earlier on the talk page of both of the IP address's that made the edits, but I am guessing you did not see it. It isn't about international law, its about the issues of WP policy. I will try to be as detailed as possible for you to help you learn your way around WP. I hope this helps and I am more than happy to answer any other questions. Since you will be unable to edit this page for the next week, if you want to put something together that complies to the policies I would be more than happy to insert it for you.

There are a couple of issues which I will try to elaborate. The first is WP:POV, which states that all information on wikipedia must be from a neutral POV. If you look at any article about Jewish neighborhoods in East Jerusalem you will see a line in the lead similar to that of, for example, Ramat Shlomo which states: Ramot Shlomo is considered an Israeli settlement by the international community, although Israel disputes this and considers it a neighborhood within the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem. The international community considers Israeli settlements to be illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this. My issue was not that you stated that its for settlers, it was the lack of the other side, making it a POV. For settlers is much better wording that the original of settlers, but it still needs the caveat.

Additionally I suggest you read WP:RS which describes what constitutes a reliable source. Just saying that someone says it and suggesting to read their work is not a source. If you believe his information is relevant please feel free to add it, but give a direct source. If it is from a book, you can see the format to use here Template:Cite book if you can find his writings online that is even better because anyone can go and read it, and you can reference it using Template:Cite web. Google books may have it electronically and you can reference straight to that, which would really be a great source for it.

The reference section should be used solely for the reference, if you want to leave notes to future editors check out Help:Hidden text.

The information I edited out about the accountant finding all they do is buy properties was very out of place. The article is about them being that type of organization. It didn't seem to fit nor did it really add anything as it was just a duplication of what was listed above. Additionally they do more than just that as you mentioned they have yeshivas. How can they only do one thing, yet also do a second at the same time? I checked the source before removing it and it did not seem to clarify the context. I believe it may have been in reference to the American charity (although just a guess since its didnt say much about it), which is you look below in the American Friends section, you will see it already pointed out.

The other item I removed dealt with it being illegal. The source never mentioned it was illegal, only that it uses questionable legal proceedings. Since the statement of them being illegal contradictory to the source I removed it. You may want to read Wikipedia:Verifiability which will explain more about the information needed to be supported by the source. If it isnt, it could be considered WP:OR

Just as an aside to help you with future editing I suggest you check out WP:REFNAME for whenever the same source is used in more than one place, rather than referencing it twice, it helps keep the reference list clean. Also check out Template:Reply to for when posting in a talk page, as the links you meant to be to me above went to a disambiguous page.

I am more than happy to discuss any of this in more detail if you want, or if you disagree with my interpretation of the policies.