Talk:Aung San Suu Kyi trespasser incidents

News quotes

Associated Press

"The Veterans Administration says he [Yettaw] receives $3,157 a month, which appears to be his sole income." (link) ↜Just M E here , now 18:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

AFP

"His US neighbors described Yettaw -- who lived in a trailer home, was married four times and had a history of drinking problems -- as something of a misfit who briefly studied psychology."(link)

It's interesting that getting a degree in psychology here translates to "briefly studied." ↜Just M E here , now 02:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

AP

"Yettaw, a Mormon who lives on a military pension from serving in the Army for about a year in 1973, was in Myanmar researching a book he wanted to write about forgiveness[...]."(link)

So now it's not disability after all, but a pension? From a year's service? ↜Just M E here , now 07:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC) The Veterans Administration indeed calls disability a pension, it turns out.(link)

Betty Yettaw, quoted in the Times

"[...]dismissed conspiracy theories that he was set up either by Burmese intelligence or the US Central Intelligence Agency. 'I laughed. Our credit card people will be glad to know that, because we still have the bills for his airfares and hotels over there,' she said. 'I really do believe this is something he did by himself.'"(link)

Voice of America

"Yettaw said he swam across a lake to the home of the opposition leader, who is under house arrest, because he wanted to protect her from attack."

(Interesting, that this official American news outlet does not emphasize Yettaw's particular religion nor touch upon his religiosity.) ↜Just M E here , now 11:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Mizzima (Burma-related news)

"The Burmese authorities had already decided to deport Yettaw even before Webb’s visit, the source said. But the issue was also raised during Webb’s meeting with Burmese officials." (link)

The Kansas City Star's Tony Rizzo

"Betty Yettaw said her husband has been unfairly described as being crazy or eccentric."

Betty Yettaw said it has been incorrectly reported that her husband suffers from epilepsy. She said the seizures were the result of a head injury her husband suffered while serving in the Army in the early 1970s. She said the seizure her husband suffered after his release was triggered by flashes from photographers’ cameras.(link) ↜Just M E here , now 15:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Internet comment by nafgim on Newsweek's "Tramp" article by

"He did not put his thumb 'through' a man's eye but in fact took the drunken, gun-wielding man down with an eye socket hold after he threatened his wife with a gun in front of several witnesses."(link)

Wow, Mr. Yettaw knows how to wield professional, not-ultimately-harmful "eye-socket" holds, impressive. ↜Just M E here , now 17:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

I linked holy anorexia in "see also"

Yet here is an interesting discussion about whether extreme fasting by a prisoner that is termed as its being wholly of a religious nature can also appropriately be termed "hunger striking," as it is in some news reports. No one else may every chime in there, though; the Original Research Noticeboard is not that all that popular of a board, I'm afraid. ↜Just M E here , now 14:19, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Fun political cartoon

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2009/08/195_50228.html ↜Just M E here , now 15:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Some items of inconsistency

Assumptions held by sources relied on in this article do not seem to me to have been subjected to much rigor in the testing of the logic that they're based on, or whether or not the basic pieces of evidence upon which these assumptions are based can be verified through intrepid, reportorial investigation. Yeah?

Furthermore, our sources seemto me to be based upon the lines of analysis that are emphasized by Voice of America. Is this really the full story? OK, let me make an edit to that assessment there. In actual fact, Voice of America seems to downplay Yettaw's religiosity, in comparison with the rest of the media -- other than the bare minimum to go along with the flow emanating from Mrs. Suu Kyi's lawyer and Mr. Yettaw's antics during his trial there (or this is my own impression: read their reports and find this out for yourself). Still, there are some Voice of America type areas of analysis to Mr. Yettaw that seem to reveal inconsistencies.

To get us started, it's been established that Mr. Yettaw is said to get $3,157-a-month (in what is apparently full disability?) from the Veterans Administration (his having served in the Army for a little over a year from when he was 17 to when he was 18, stationed in Germany. ↜Just M E here , now 19:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Is Yettaw's full history of foreign travel known?

Another "point": according to Newsweek reporters, Mr. John William Yettaw DID NOT HAVE A PASSPORT until the Spring of 2008; yet, the record shows that Mr. Yettaw visited Mrs. Suu Kyi's estate in the late Winter of 2007.

Why has the government not leaked to a reporter what kind of documents this self-initiated traveler, Mr. Yettaw, traveled on, on that trip, I wonder?

I'm not going to speculate about if Mr. Yettaw has ever worked for a government agency, since for me to do so would be entirely pointless -- for this reason: since news reporters aren't supposed to reveal such things, anyone merely relying on their reports to edit Wikipedia would be pretty hard pressed to find such a thing as that out, and verify it, anyway. (WP:RS, of course!) So, why should I even bother to speculate, then, right? Right, indeed. Instead, I'll go along with the idea that Mr. Yettaw is an independent, international researcher in the field of human rights. (However, if I were a reporter, I'd hang around Fort Leanard Wood (Wikipedia says, "The post is commonly referred to as 'Fort Lost in the Woods' amongst soldiers and visitors due to its remoteness and distance from a major metropolitan center") in a truckers hat and chat up the locals to see if someone in the pool hall ever hints that the area is at all a "spookstown," that is, renown for having a major US intelligence agency training installation in the area.) ↜Just M E here , now 19:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

**Overly-guided** tours of Yettaw's Ozarks country

It seems the "'Voice of America' tour" goes something like this: It first takes a little foray out to the dilapidated Yettaws's homestead out in Falcon, Missouri. The following VOA video shows that Mr. Yettaw has a residence down two miles of gravel road in the area. [It's situated upon an unfarmed, 160-acre spread.] VOA's Burmese-language reporter narrates while this property is shown, along with its large trailer and what's apparently a boarded- up, fire-damaged house -- all of which would appear to remain uninhabited, at this time. Yettaw's deceased son's grave there is shown, too. [The VOA reporter's "vid" seems to AVOID panning over to the large, turreted new-house construction that Mr. Yettaw is in the midst of putting up, though.] Check out Mr. Ronnie Nyane's report: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9FucgjDdVY . The grass around the place looks to be about foot-and-a-half high, and not trampled down.

[Meanwhile, Mr. Yettaw's family actually is safely ensconce in some house in a neighboring county, situated right outside Camdenton, Missouri, anyway. Which isn't generally shown, but maybe the outside of some suburban house isn't all that evocative or important to a story; and maybe they are respecting the family's privacy by not doing so.] The VOA video does feature interviews with family members, which might be in their homes, however.

There's also one with Sherriff Wrinkles...who can barely be made out, under the beginning of the Burmese-language voice over, saying how John had charged everything on his credit card. (The Mormon chapel in Lebanon, Missouri is shown. Also a mailman, interrupted while driving his rounds, is interviewed; the Cracker Barrel (which the reader might recognize as a franchise eating-spot-and-store) on the local interstate interchange is shown.)

The message of the piece is that Mr. Yettaw is a but kindly and well-meaning, self-styled man of self-initiated, international travel and study involving helping people.

[Prior discussions in the archives mention the Newsweek article's hints about Mr. Yettaw's academic credentials to engage in research on individuals' withstanding psychological ordeals, along with his higher than "everyman" level of social standing from an academic standpoint.]

Nonetheless, the sheriff can be seen to bring up the question of Mr. Yettaw's finances. Apparently he has managed to keep up on his credit card payments (what, with his property and income, I guess) so that he's able to keep his cards active in order to fund his study-and-action adventures on credit cards. ↜Just M E here , now 19:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

No context to guess genesis of post traumatic stress

Newsweek's interviews of family members said Mr. Yettaw suffers as-yet-undiagnosed post traumatic stress disorder. Of course, at the beginning of this talkpage post, I mention that Mr. Yettaw served in Germany only for a little over a year, which itself seems a little hard to have been the source of this military service trauma. But -- I'm venturing into "what if?" stuff. And I'm not going to do that.

Suffice it to say that whatever these details are, with concern to Mr. Yettaws' past traumas, whether they had been suffered while he had been working for Uncle Sam or whether they had been suffered completely independently from his having worked for Uncle Sam, at this point, they remain private information that we are unaware of, relying only on present sources. ↜Just M E here , now 19:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Nifty eyesocket hold

I in particular do dig this comment posted immediately after Newsweek's "Lady and the Tramp" article; it's by "nafgim," who writes, "He [Yettaw] did not put his thumb 'through' a man's eye but in fact took the drunken, gun-wielding man down with an eye socket hold after he threatened his wife with a gun in front of several witnesses."

You see, there is a police report of Yettaw's having pushed his thumb into a guys eye. But this commenter insists that Mr. Yettaw, rather, was merely executing some professional, not-ultimately-harmful "eye-socket" hold in order to disable a gun-toting weirdo.

A pretty run-of-the-mill doctoral candidate in rural Missouri, who wields highly sophisticated maneuvers against armed opponents -- who expressed anxiety to the point of tears to his confidants before his recent, self-initiated mission to visit both refugee activists and "the Lady" in Burma. (Which suddenly has become not a psychological research mission but one following a "Latter-day Saints" type of vision quest.) ↜Just M E here , now 19:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Coatracks of unsubstantiated claims via prose by the mainstream media

A news article from the day before yesterday (”US man at center of Suu Kyi uproar has troubled past” (AFP)) sums up nicely for me how news organizations seem to be following the lead of VOA spin (or the spin of Mrs. Suu Kyi's lawyer, etc.) rather than to openly report the facts.

(1) Mr. Yettaw's spy paraphenalia is entirely amateur.

"He [Yettaw] was found with a pair of homemade flippers, along with an amateur “spy kit” in his black haversack that included a flashlight, folding pliers, a camera, two 100-dollar bills and some Myanmar currency notes."

How does AFP know the gear is amateur?

(2) Mr. Yettaw suffers from compulsive religiosity.

"A picture eventually emerged of Yettaw as a somewhat tragic figure on a spiritual quest, a devout Mormon who sought redemption after his teenage son was killed riding a motorcycle that Yettaw had bought for him as a present.

"[... ...]

"He’s a very sincere and pious person," Yettaw’s lawyer Khin Maung Oo told AFP.

"[... ...]

"It later emerged that he had been to Aung San Suu Kyi’s crumbling villa once before, in November 2008, when he walked along a lakeside drain and left a copy of the Book of Mormon at her house before escaping.

"[... ...]

"Yettaw went on hunger strike after his arrest, which resulted in a series of epileptic fits he experienced in early August."

(3) Mr. Yettaw is a ne’er-do-well.

"Military records showed that Yettaw spent a short time in the US military in the 1970s, though Yettaw told Myanmar authorities that he was a Vietnam veteran with a history of post-traumatic stress disorder.

"[... ...]

"His US neighbors described Yettaw — who lived in a trailer home, was married four times and had a history of drinking problems — as something of a misfit who briefly studied psychology."

_____

Let’s examine the facts.

(1) Any scratching below the surface of the image that has been promulgated reveals Mr. Yettaw to have conducted investigations of various sorts that appear to have been competent.

Exhibit A: Yes, a Newsweek piece “Lady and the Tramp” follows the script with regard to Mr. Yettaw. (It’s the only major publication to research and print something on him.) However, observe:

The piece briefly mentions that Mr. Yettaw (i) “thought” he had received a directive from someone in Burma to visit Mrs. Suu Kyi; and it (ii) quotes his un-named friend/confidant of Mr. Yettaw’s who said that Mr. Yettaw had uncovered information that would jeopardize ize him if the government of Burma were to find it out.

Exhibit B. A random snip from an old AP peice: “According to police in Myanmar, Yettaw said that in Thailand he met with Bo Kyi of the Assistance Association for Political Prisoners (Burma) and made 10 visits to a clinic that serves refugees from Myanmar.”

There are scores of such snippets. The guy was busily engaged in research: fact.

(2) Another fact is that this story we’ve all swallowed hook, line and sinker with regard to Mr. Yettaw’s extreme religiosity only surfaced after his arrest. But, before that? NO SUCH STORY!

In fact, his family only said that Mr. Yettaw had left poetry and other writings for Mrs. Suu Kyi, along with, yes, some of a religious sort, when he had visited the compound previously back in very late part of 2007.

After Mr. Yettaw's arrest at the conclusion of his 2009 visit, however, Suu Kyi’s lawyer quickly began to emphasize that Mr. Yettaw had prayed and that he’d left a Book of Mormon on whichever his visit to the compound. Suddenly that was the emphasis everyone was to give. Yettaw himself got the memo and at his own trial he said he’d been on a mission from God. But people who knew him before his arrest describe him as a competent person who just happened be religious.

(3) The easiest way to look beyond the coatrack that has been placed in front of the real John Yettaw is to examine how he spends his time and his possessions and means of income. Mr. Yettaw is some ne’er-do-well? Let’s see. (And once this card is shown to be bogus, the rest of the what's false about the picture comes to the fore, too, even if whatever is the true picture remains slightly hazy. That is, we know that the image offered doesn't make full sense, even if a competing image remains, in part, unsubstantiated.)

Well, yes, I'm afraid that Newsweek had, of course, embarked on what I have been characterizing above as "the VOA tour," too.

And, in any case, Newsweek's reporters stated that the only job they could discover for Yettaw was for him to be ferrying service personnel to and from Leanard Wood ( http://www.newsweek.com/id/201938/output/print ):

"After a house fire and a messy divorce from Yvonne, Yettaw found himself living in a trailer on his property, where a veritable Noah’s Ark of trash began to accumulate on the lawn: two broken-down cars, two derelict trucks, two rusted satellite dishes and a pair of portable basketball hoops that still stand in the tall, tick-infested grass. Debt began to snowball, as Yettaw pursued increasingly impractical dreams. He started driving a USA Tours bus in part to ferry soldiers from their homes to nearby Fort Leonard Wood, began work on a 6,000-square-foot turreted home and started putting up drifters in a local hotel. ¶ A darker side also emerged. He put his thumb through a man’s eye during a fight in a bar parking lot, say Brian and Yvonne, and, according to police records, spat in the face of a woman who accused him of taking her car. (Although no charges were filed, Yettaw admitted to the spitting, and the woman won a restraining order against him.) In 1997 he graduated cum laude[...]."

But, hey, whoa-whoa-whoa-whoa-whoa-whoa! Back up the film and put it on pause, OK?

Next to the General Lee with the welded-shut doors, parked next to outside decor reminiscent of Sanford and Son, our Missouri bumpkin has the almost-completed, 6,000-square-foot house?

Then, of course, the current AFP news report says that Yettaw studied psychology for a short time; but this is supposed to be informed reporting about a guy who graduated in it cum laude and thereafter entered the doctoral program at the Springfield, Missouri–based Forest Institute’s School of Professional Psychology? Whose kids are likewise honor students, and whose entire family are pillars of the community? ↜Just M E here , now 19:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Balancing POVs of those who know Yettaw have been given short shrift in MSM

Since Mr. Yettaw's recent release, there is footage showing him riding in a van. Other than that, there is footage of when he stepped off the US government plane in Bangkok the day before yesterday. I personally think it was taken by reporters with the Voice of America -- the AP copies a frame from television coverage to illustrate its recent piece. And, meanwhile, Mr. Yettaw himself hasn’t said a word to reporters.

(I doubt there will ever be extensive interviews...maybe one, to construct a carefully pre-arranged picture, and then no other requests will ever be granted.

(The Kansas City Star’s Tony Rizzo reported yesterday, “Betty Yettaw said her husband has been unfairly described as being crazy or eccentric.”

(Oops, that was off-script!) But, seriously, what I do say is, “Believe those who knew him! not Mrs. Suu Kyi’s lawyer who had not met him previously, nor the news reporters who have never met him (and, to a certain extent, who’re simply at a keyboard typing up stories, just about like any of us are here, on Wikipedia?)

And, yes, also do ignore what the “crazy-acting-man” Yettaw said about his motivations at his own trial. [After all, a captive must likely keep a fellow captive’s best interests at heart, so could well be expected to attempt to obfuscate and/or deceive, by exaggerating things that the fellow captive's lawyer has indicated he wanted to be exaggerated, perhaps, right?]

In a blog conversation on a Mormon-themed website, back when Mr. Yettaw had been first arrested, a commenter showed up named B. Erith, who said, "His [Yettaw's] only political belief is that Burma should not be pushed, change should come gradually, based on forgiveness and trust."

Sounds like, instead of crazy, Yettaw is a man with his head on his shoulders straight! Later in that thread, B. Erith also had asked, "His [Yettaw's] religion being mentioned often by the press, not him, makes him a 'headcase' and 'mentally suspect'?"

Touche, Mr. or Ms. B. Erith. Touche! ↜Just M E here , now 19:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

BLP

In light of Betty's Yettaw's belief that her husband is unfairly characterized as eccentric, I believe we (when we get around to it) need to comb through the article and make sure that the little pieces that have been highlighted in the media in order to construct this image receive proper context and give them whatever their precise attributions. (And, incidentally, I don't believe that the statements that Yettaw made during his trial should not be relied on to dismiss our need to provide such context and attributions elsewhere in the article, either. Obviously, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that Yettaw's statements there could have been exaggerated to portray just that effect.) ↜Just M E here , now 20:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions.

1. All of the "premonitions" material needs attribution and disretionary wording so as not to lead the reader. I suppose we could do either by attributing whomever the mainstream publications quote on these matters or by attributing the mainstream publications themselves, or both. (I know a lot of people who would tell me similar inklings, but to string them together in their BLP could verge on an unacceptable level of wp:COATRACK-iness, in my opinion.)
2. We should look over the eyeball gouge incident and the spitting incident. The report of the eyeball incident was attributed by Newsweek to a family member but I'm not sure that the context is explained adequately. It sounds like an eyeball gouge which would certainly be an extremely serious form of assault, the way Newsweek had written it. It should probably just be removed since there is no extant police report, etc., that we have in the public record to attribute it to, until and unless we get more information on it. ↜Just M E here , now 00:04, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
3. Newsweek:

   "...only to be forced from a doctoral program at the Springfield, Mo.–based Forest Institute's School of Professional Psychology in 2007. According to family, he was "blacklisted" for exploding at a professor during a field trip to an area mental hospital. (Forest officials declined to comment, citing privacy regulations.) Determined to get back on track, he was set to speak with school officials at the institute on the very day a far worse crisis engulfed the family."

   I think that whatever tales about a person that family members share with a reporter -- when they are obviously very negative and when it cannot be independently verified that the reporter got the tale's context right -- ought to end up being considered fairly much "hearsay," as far as that person's BLP on Wikipedia is concerned. Let's delete mention of this alleged conflict with the professor, for now. ↜Just M E here , now 02:03, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
4. The sources seem to indicate that Yettaw gets along well with his his wife and family; hence the article's reference to its being Betty Yettaw and the kids that live near Camdenton is confusing? Did they move there in his absence? Or is the portrayal of John's residence at present being in Falcon just an excuse to concentrate on "Yettaw lives at this godforsaken-appearing place in a crusty trailer in the Ozarks" as a coatrack? ↜Just M E here , now 13:31, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
         Upon contemplation, I think the burnt-down house and the new construction (cast as an impractical-for-a-trailer-dwelling hillbilly, turreted castle by Newsweek) are one and the same. If so, should the article say Yettaw and his family moved into the house (now burnt down) in Falcon rather than into a trailer? ↜Just M E here , now 19:39, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

reply to Justmeherenow...

It is enlightening (to say the least) to see how one report, without secondary verification, publishes a quote from a family member, then other reports refer to the quote in their stories as fact, not opinion or hearsay. Eventually, the stories get rehashed so much that the original quote, which was never verified elsewhere, becomes hard fact. Reporters are mostly going on what Yettaw has said or what family members have said he said. He told his family he had fought in Vietnam. It's not like they are going to question it, or go and try to verify it. Few reporters try to get actual verification of Yettaw's or his family's claims. I tihnk the Newsweek article has done the most work thusfar verifying claims.

The media tends to take liberties to juice up their stories, using hyperbole and biased vocabulary. But it is unlikely that Yettaw would or could sue anyone for using the word amateur. The media has a free pass to jazz up their stories. That is why this article on Wikipedia is so important. I hope we've donea good job at avoiding hyperbole and drama. Like, we've left out the "eye socket" bit because it seemed suspiciously written.

We need to make sure this article is void of POV and spin. You've mentioned some, but are there other parts of this article thta need to be toned down or addressed for POV? Also, is there a way to get a copy of that police report you mentioned? Kingturtle (talk) 16:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Yettaw did not visit Suu Kyi in 2007. He left on his first trip to Asia in May 2008 and went to her home later that year.

P.P.S. Not all people see him as competent. See this online forum thread from his home area: http://lacledeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628. Kingturtle (talk) 16:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I got the dates mixed up, sorry about that. (So far Yettaw has not answered reporters' questions shouted out at him, with the exception to a question asked him during his stopover in O'Hare International Airport.

"'If I had to do it again, I would do it a hundred times, a hundred times, to save her life,' he said, speaking through his surgical mask.

"Though Yettaw was released, Suu Kyi and her two live-in aides remain in detention because of Yettaw's visit. Although defended by Suu Kyi, Yettaw has been called a fool and a madman by some of her supporters.

"'That they locked her up, it just breaks my heart,' and exhausted-looking Yettaw told the AP about Suu Kyi.

"As he waited for his flight in Chicago, Yettaw sat with his head in his hands, his eyes bloodshot. His companion, who did not identify herself, said he was 'very tired.' He flashed the sign language symbol for 'I love you' and nodded and smiled when asked whether he was happy to be home.

"When asked later if he would comment further, Yettaw said 'I wish I could talk more. I can't'"(link) ↜Just M E here , now 23:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Um, wrong. John left for China first and got stuck in China, until November of 2008. John is my neighbor, please get your facts straight before you post anything about John.

Um, wrong again, Yettaw ONLY signaled "I Love You" to the reporters. Please get your facts straight again.

John Yettaw is my neighbor, I have driven his kids on my school bus for years. Most of you on here have no clue as to what you are talking about. Yes, John is a little "odd" but that dosen't give you the right to come on somewhere like this and spew crap about my neighbor like you do.

If you want to know more about John visit my forum, www.lacledeforum.com/forums

or more directly follow the links below, but please if you don't know the man like we do, get your nose out of other people's butts!

http://lacledeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734

http://lacledeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1216

http://lacledeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628

(Note: The preceding was posted by IP 76.3.52.152 ) ↜Just M E here , now 00:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

76.3.52.152, what "crap" do you see in the article that needs fixing? Kingturtle (talk) 02:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC) A lot of the information about John is NOT TRUE. And, his son's name should not be listed, due to the fact the he is a minor. John did NOT take his his kids to California to be with Yvonne before he left. He left them here for his neighbors to fend for. It wasn't until we all got notice of John's arrest that Yvonne sent for them. Don't let her fool you in the crap she's been spewing in the media, Yvonne is no cake walk. Yvonne has had several opportunities to get the kids back (this being just another one), and yet she still won't come and petition the court to get them. Instead, she sits on her duff, and let's the kids live alone in the house (just like John did). This is just for starters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.3.51.62 (talk) 09:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

And yet again the kids are NOW BACK with John in Falcon, they have been enrolled back in school. Why didn't Yvonne petition the courts for the kids? How Great of a mother can she be that she let's them go back yet again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.199.182.228 (talk) 17:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I removed the son's name. That was a good idea. As for information about Yvonne, we can only go by what sources provide. I encourage you to call Newsweek or your local paper to try to get a story published with your version of the story. Then we can use it here. Good luck! Kingturtle (talk) 11:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Visions?

That Chris Allen, Yettaw's spokesman, mentions no "visions"

...per se, is interesting, in my opinion. (link) ↜Just M E here , now 14:53, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

• Link to an excerpt from Yettaw's interview (video).] He apparently warned her of what he believed to be an impending assassination. (He says nothing about how he became aware of the same; and CNN does not press him, apparently.) ↜Just M E here , now 22:26, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

The new Newsweek piece

also doesn't fill in new "visionary" tidbits.

Thus, again, it is not Yettaw's talking about his religion than makes him into a freak (other than his going along with this at his trial)...but it is the mere fact that he happens to be a believing Mormon that renders him thus. What a coatrack!

And, Newsweek's last report went to super-great lenght to paint Yettaw as non-political, yet now it quotes him as saying,

"I want to free Myanmar. I want to stop the suffering there. I am antijunta. I will never be at peace, emotionally or psychologically, until that woman is free, until that nation is free."

Nope, I don't see anything political there. Do you?

Instead, the "lone Don Quixote" interpretation continues to be taken by Newsweek (the lone scribe interested in Mr. Yettaw) as the explanation for his adventure.

Is Yettaw on disability? Newsweek says Yettaw has given up on his former occupation of ferrying servicemen and women around in a bus (that is, it labels him a retired busdriver).

Yet, what is Yettaw's current work? "[...A] "dissertation"[...]and a book[...]."

OK.

But, to backtrack here: What are the details about Yettaw's disability?

Either Yettaw wasn't asked by Newsweek for specifics or Newsweek isn't saying. Yettaw did, though, tell Newsweek, "I am not bipolar."

Well, geez, what is his [alleged] disability, then?

Isn't this kind of info usually leaked to the press from government sources? But, we get nothing.

Instead, what we get leaked to us is this: Newsweek fills out a super-interesting tidbit that had previously only hinted at, within Newsweek's initial profile of Yettaw from some time ago:

[...O]ne Western diplomat, who requested anonymity in order to speak freely, [explains that] intelligence reports show that senior Burmese officials were told to come up with a way to keep the Lady incarcerated, as her May 27 release date loomed. Around a week before Yettaw's second swim, this person says, two men posing as members of the reform-minded National League for Democracy allegedly approached Yettaw in Mae Sot, an untidy border town in Thailand, and told him that the Lady was ready to receive him.

• * *

OK.....

So Yettaw was set up by the junta to believe he was a secret agent.

(Which is to say: No visions. No trying to convert her to believe in the Book of Mormon. No crazy guy. But, rather, a case of a guy allegedly duped into thinking he was relaying information from parties associated with Suu Kyi on to her. Whatever.)

Thanks US goverment. Great leak.

• * *

Newsweek says, "After years of questions that have gone unanswered[...Yettaw's family] have come to accept Yettaw the way he is[...]without asking too many follow-ups."

It seems to me that it is the general media that is not all too interested in doing much of a follow-up in investigating Yettaw's background. (I have visions of Newsweek's exclusive interest in the story being a result of Newsweek's deciding to make itself an private version of the Voice of America.)

• * *

(OK, it may well turn out that Newsweek's "lone Don Quixote" theme is completely correct; and, it is the US government's leaked conspiracy theory about a fake set-up for Yettaw to go see Suu Kyi that is the right conspiracy theory to believe. But, let's keep our minds open until we see the proof. Which we may never, so....who knows!) (link) ↜Just M E here , now 20:29, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Yettaw does tell BBC about his visions

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8228098.stm ↜Just M E here , now 20:08, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, Justmeherenow. I discussed more about the visions with BBC than was presented - in one word editing. In one interview with the BBC the line-of-questioning was so poorly presented that they scrapped the interview - they insisted on asking propaganda-generated questions concerning the Special Agents letting me through the front gate. They based many/most of their questons on the assumption that I had presented Burmese intelligence identification. Likewise: The CNN interview was heavily edited and included information in which I stopped the questioning in mid-interview due to inaccuracies that would - potentially - lead to misunderstanding - they worked several poinnts that I had objected-to anyway. For the record and in-front of a legal team - I discussed the visions (Inter alia) with CNN and they were completely edited-out. John Yettaw JohnYettaw (talk) 23:50, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I changed the focus of this article

from its being a biography of John Yettaw to its being an article about the incidents.↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 19:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Biography section problems

The biography section has some problems. It is true that its subject was involved in an event which caused there to be a certain amount of speculation about his background in the media, however, is it really Wikipedia's place to amass speculations about relatively obscure individuals who have not made themselves -- nor even have become, due the events that they have become involved in -- public persons?↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 19:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Due to the above concerns, I have moved most of the detail within the biographical section into its own article at "John Yettaw," which article I have nominated for deletion.↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 20:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Interpolations by User:Johnyettaw

I have reverted recent edits, including commentary, by User:Johnyettaw and left a note on their talk page. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

• Note - Commentaries appended to the article in main space by Yettaw himself are here. --> (Link.)↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 18:48, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Some NPOV observations

I am an American news junkie and I have never heard a solitary mention about this event until I read it here. To my eyes, it is filled with salacious and scandal-mongering details that are not ordinarily considered important in describing an event. There are several editors working on this article that appear to really care about the intimate details. I assure you that at least one editor, me, could not disagree with you more. The discussions on this article are verbose to the point of gibberish and not worth reading. I am going to spend a little bit of time helping with this article, and I request that all interested editors try to get some perspective.Jarhed (talk) 20:29, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Agree the article has problems. It's too long, for one thing, with WP: undue weight given to some aspects. It could be easily summarized, especially the trial. All that is needed there is the outcome, with mention of Yettaw's hospital stays intervening during testimony, etc. And then mention the sentencing, and then the U.S. rep bails him out, etc.Malke2010 20:42, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable to me. From the US perspective, the most notable thing about this incident, almost the only notable thing, is Jim Webb's involvement. Another thing: the image illustrating this article in the info box is idiotic and needs to be changed.Jarhed (talk) 06:14, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I've merged the JWY bio here (the article about the event)

per a discussion on the bio's talkpage.↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 04:36, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I reverted the redirect pending discussion, thanks.Jarhed (talk) 06:56, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I disput some of the statements perpetuated in this article there were pooly sourced and inaccurately quoted in the press.

I only want to address "inaccuracies" quoted/sited in the press that Wikipedia has used in this article. Can anyone please help me? On what forum can I be allowed to list the inaccuracies to remedy this situation? Please advise. JohnYettaw (talk) 07:56, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Jarhed's statements are so short and overstated as to be koans or aphorisms. My best, longer version of what he has been trying to say is this: Avoid (quoting from WP:BLPHELP now)

...edit warring and other disruptive behavior, threats, games, refusing to discuss or listen, or editing to an agenda that does not match that of a neutral encyclopedia

Other than doing any of that, you'll be OK. In fact, the only hard-and-fast rule on Wikpedia is don't be a dick uh, putz. And, in a bit of my personal advice for you, John: If some Wiki-cops are so brusk in their explanations of policies that they come across as putzish, in fact; please note their intentions to help move things along and simply react in a manner that you feel to be polite and civilized. Then, everything will be OK. In any case, I've boiled down the kernel of the stuff found at the pertinent guideline for you. It is lengthy and not every harried Wikipedian has every last detail memorized or on the tip of hi/r tongue. Here goes.

At times the editorial process can be frustrating and slow; however, obvious problems, unwarranted negative approaches, or misrepresentations in a biography can often be corrected very quickly.

Oops, sorry about that "quickly" bit, John. IMO you're such minor of a "public" person (or, still, "private" person-become-notable, due some event) that few editors are around to try and accomodate your requests.

Editors may take note of an article subject's wishes if the matter is borderline or if the coverage the subject receives in other sources is very low. Equally, editors might not do so if it would jeopardize neutrality or significantly reduce article quality. ¶ Managing your biography. [... ...] The best place to start is the very active biographical articles noticeboard, where all questions and concerns about biographies can be posted. [... ...] (Other common places for discussion are the article's discussion page and your talk page.) ¶ If you wish to discuss the matter privately, you can email the OTRS team (contact details), a volunteer team of experienced users who often help with biographical articles and privacy-related matters. However, if the matter is one of editorial discretion, then you may need to discuss it with article editors anyway. ¶ Commenting and editing on the Wikipedia pages yourself. It can be quite effective to edit Wikipedia yourself. [... ... ...C]orrect the article in ways that any reasonable person can agree is fair. Always drop a note on the "discussion" page to explain who you are, what you changed, and why. Simple corrections like this include [...] correcting errors of fact (you will need to cite one or more verifiable sources), and removing sections that grossly unbalance the biography's point of view and which are not justified by any encyclopedic need. If there is actual privacy-related information you want permanently deleted rather than just corrected, please ask for help. ¶ If you are removing unsourced or poorly sourced facts the policy as described on the Biographies of living persons page is:

§ • § • § “Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons — whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable — should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion, from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space.” § • § • §

Remove any contentious material about living persons that is unsourced; that is a conjectural interpretation of a source (see Wikipedia:No original research); or that relies upon self-published sources (unless written by the subject of the BLP; see below) or sources that otherwise fail to meet standards specified in Wikipedia:Verifiability. The three-revert rule does not apply to such removals. Editors who find themselves in edit wars over potentially defamatory information about living persons should bring the matter to the Biographies of Living Persons noticeboard for resolution by an administrator.

OK? Good luck!↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 18:45, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

John Yettaw

"On March 30, 2010, the article John Yettaw was redirected to this article. The discussion page of that article is located at Talk:John Yettaw Off2riorob (talk) 21:27, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

What is illegal?

It is written in the article that

"It is illegal in Myanmar to have a guest stay overnight at one's home without notifying the authorities first."

I wonder if the word "foreign" is missing from this sentence or if it is forbidden to have a guest staying overnight irrespective of the nationality.--91.14.187.143 (talk) 19:09, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

it is forbidden to have a guest staying overnight irrespective of the nationality. Kingturtle = (talk) 17:03, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

That law is very rarely enforced in reality, unless you get into legal trouble like Yettaw did. The way it works is, anyone who wants to stay overnight as a guest must go to the town office in the host's district and register on the "midnight guests list". That permits you to reside past midnight at your host's address for, I think, two weeks, after which you may renew if you wish to stay longer.

In practice, as you might imagine, this is rarely enforced due to the impracticality of such enforcement, unless you get into legal trouble. Who wants to patrol the streets, checking doorways and making sure everybody who walks into a house after midnight is registered in thick paper books; by midnight they want to freaking sleep! While in Burma I have slept over countless times at friends' houses and none of them have bothered asking me to put my name in the local register to become a legal overnight guest. Some of the offices will even wave you away because they can't be bothered. Funny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.33.75 (talk) 01:04, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Yettaw entries

Yettaw's "Travel Blog" is included in the list of external links. The blog is located on www.travelblog.org, which is a free website allowing anybody to join and blog about their travels.
According to his profile on the website, Yettaw joined on 30 April 2008 and last logged in on 23 July 2008. His "blog" consists of a single entry relating to a 23 June 2008 walk of a section of the Great Wall of China.
This is neither notable for nor relevant to this article; I have therefore deleted it.

I suspect there are more instances of similar irrelevancies within the article.2600:1700:EA01:1090:3C91:BAF1:533A:8920 (talk) 02:12, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 20 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 16:29, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

---

Suu Kyi trespasser incidents → Aung San Suu Kyi trespasser incidents – In accordance with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Burmese)#Use full names, this article should be renamed with the subject's full name. Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 14:03, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom. This is her common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:19, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Yettaw possibly died

According to these obituaries https://www.holmanhowe.com/obituaries/John-Yettaw-Lebanon/ and https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/news-leader/name/john-yettaw-obituary?pid=198750904 a John William Yettaw born 1955 died on May 21 this year, considering he not only shares the full name of Aung San Suu Kyi's trespasser, but also the birth year (1955) and birthplace (Detroit), the chances of these two being different people is small. Are obituaries reliable enough to be used as a source here (like including a small paragraph on #Biography of Yettaw or updating the infobox at there) Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 16:43, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Nope, they aren't Wpakxl (talk) 06:56, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I found it a bit entertaining that in this family-written obit it says simply " In the years following, John engaged in international travels to Asia, which led to many adventures." Kingturtle = (talk) 14:01, 29 April 2024 (UTC)