Talk:Austrians/Archive 5

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Where is Hitler in this collage of famous Austrans?

Where is Hitler in the portrait of famous Austrians? Hitler is the most famous of all those added in the collage many of whom have died centuries ago who many around the world have no clue who they are. Most people around the world have known or heard of Hitler and to deliberately omit him out of this collage is just another example English Wikipedia bias. 2.30.8.77 (talk) 19:26, 16 July 2015 (UTC)


Agreed, 100%. He's just about the only Austrian than many people are aware of being Austrian. Perhaps, one of the top 5 most well known historical figures from any country.Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:18, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Not agreed. I wonder if Hitler would agree being depicted as an Austrian. Or Mozart for that matter.... Gerard von Hebel (talk) 18:29, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
If the collage of famous Austians was still up, it would be funny to have Hitler inside. Not only because he's undoubtedly the most famous austrian in human history this far, but also because he preferred to view himself as a pan-german aryan living in the Third Reich. So portraying Adolf Hitler as an austrian could be intended as an insult to his figure and other aryan myths. A foreigner as head of nazi Germany: a beautiful insult to that horrible xenophobe and mass murderer. --82.48.141.68 (talk) 19:34, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
So, where's Freud in the collage? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 02:36, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Hebel, you're right !! I don't think Hitler would agree with being depicted as Austrian, didn't you hear? He's dead. He won't agree or disagree with anything. But if you think Freud belongs there, then remove someone less famous and put him there. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 07:26, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
If we are in the process of replacing/adding new people, I would also argue that Arnold Schwarzenegger belongs on the list. More so than Christoph Waltz. Nymf (talk) 07:31, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
As you know, the point is that Hitler wouldn't have agreed even when he was alive. He basically terminated the country and it's nationality altogether. For about nine years into his Thousand year Reich. Well, at least he made an effort. Let's replace Hitler by Freud and reinstate Rilke? I like Rilke. Shouldn't these galleries be representative of the nationality involved rather than tell people things they already know? Well.... I'm a fan of the idea of removing them altogether, as you might have gathered. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 17:26, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately, what someone considered themselves to be, is not really relevant. Hitler is mentioned later in the article, there are 1000s of sources to confirm his background. If I consider myself to be a high notable Austrian, can I be on the gallery? Of course not, because facts about your background are far more important than how you self identify. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 06:39, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

It is dubious whether Hitler can be considered an Austrian. --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 09:00, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Austrians : A real ethnic group distinct from Germans?

In that page Austrians are referred as an homogenous Germanic ethnic group, closely linked with Germans; in the page of Swiss people is described that the german speaking swiss people belongs to german people. I live near Austrian order and i can't see any difference between austrians and the bavarian population in germany. In italy the german speaking population of South Tirol, the same of people of austrian Tirol is recognized in italy as german minority. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TizStriz (talk • contribs) 21:41, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

The article currently states "Austrians may be described either as a nationality or as a homogeneous Germanic ethnic group". Generally speaking, Austrians are acknowledged as ethnic Germans but they have developed their own national identity since 1945.--Sein und Zeit (talk) 20:33, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

The overwhelming majority of Austrians today (2018) do not identify as Germans or ethnic Germans but have their own separate national identity. Everything else (outside views, assumptions etc etc,) are not relevant. Self-definition should be recognized and decisive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsteinacher2 (talk • contribs) 18:44, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

You need some third party sources - the fact there is a national identity as well is not really relevant -----Snowded TALK 15:18, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
I want to make the case with third party independent sources for my argument that Austrians are not part of an imagined (see Benedict Anderson) Germanic nation - Germanic applies to a specific branch of languages rather than nationalities – e.g. English is a Germanic language but wikipedia does not speak of the English people as a Germanic nation and ethnic group. Most Austrians do speak Austrian German and therefore speak a Germanic language, but there is no Germanic nation. [Germanic might refer to the German nation = Germany in some dictionaries, but not to Austria] Wikipedia therefore does not see "Germanic" as a term for defining nationalities but languages - see definition of Germanic in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic ) - for the definition of Germanic see definition by cambridge dictionary https://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/worterbuch/englisch/germanic see defintion by Oxford dictionary https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/germanic Using "Germanic" for defining Austrians as part of a "Germanic nation" was common in the Nazi years, nowadays however this view is only used by Neo-Nazis and extreme right-wing circles see https://diepresse.com/home/science/1395265/Auf-der-Suche-nach-den-alten-Germanen User: gsteinacher2
the linguistic aspect is closely related to the ethnic aspect. there is no germanic nation and no one who knows the matter would refer to germanic as germany. germans is a preamble ethnic group of other groups in germany(Swabians, Bavarians, Saxons etc.) and are in the germanic group in the same way as austrians and liechtensteiners are. You posted the disambiguation link of germanic yourself, which states that the ethno-linguistic group of germanic people includes Austrian people. There are also Bavarians who consider them bavarians first and then germans, which doesnt change the fact that they belong to the group of germanic people. J3010daahfuq (talk) 17:40, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

They're not a separate ethnic group. Austrian identity is nothing more than historical revisionism. Before the end of World War II, they were regarded by themselves as ethnic Germans. Even the Austrofascist regime which was strongly opposed to pan-Germanism referred to Austrians being the "Better Germans". It wasn't until after World War II that a non-German Austrian identity was created to corroborate the first victim theory, allowing them to avoid any blame for the crimes of the Third Reich. Charles Essie (talk) 16:01, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

It's a really similar situation to Moldovans and Romanians or Greek Cypriots and Greek Greeks etc or Even Indonesian Malays, Malaysians Malays and Bruneian. Of course nationality and citizenship exist but ethnic groups existing isn't trying to annex another country, my Singaporean friend who says he is Chinese isn't saying that Singapore is now a part of the Chinese state. This is s much more controversial than it should be.165.225.114.210 (talk) 05:07, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

After somebody changed the definition in the first sentence to "are ethnic German nationality", I changed to "the people of Austria", hoping that that definition is broad enough to serve as a compromise between the conflicting concepts of "separate ethnic group" / "part of the German ethnic group" / "group of Austrian citizens". I also removed the unsourced formula of "who share a common Austrian culture, Austrian descent, and Austrian history". Similar formulars have been introduced into a lot of articles about European peoples (e.g. Germans, French people), but always without sources or with misrepresented sources. --Rsk6400 (talk) 08:34, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

@Rsk6400: Which is still vague compared to other similar articles, as this is not an article about the whole population of Austria. The article on Germans itself, says a "Germanic ethnic group". Modern Austrians are at very least a Germanic nation/group. So I'd suggest a change to "Germanic group/people native to Austria." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.174.25 (talk • contribs) 16:34, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
Germanic peoples is about the Germanic peoples of antiquity and early Middle Ages, so that's not a good article to link to. The article Germans doesn't call Germans a "Germanic ethnic group" any more. That claim (which was unsourced or badly sourced) has been removed there after a long discussion. If you want to call Austrians a "Germanic ethnic group", you should provide a WP:RS which focuses on all aspects of Austrianness (i.e. not an encyclopedia of ethnic groups which naturally focuses on the ethnic aspect). --Rsk6400 (talk) 16:48, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
How about something along the lines of "Austrians are the people who either nationally or ethnically identify with the nation of Austria"? --Lmagoutas (talk) 12:20, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
Since both nationality and ethnicity are vague terms, I don't think that would be better. --Rsk6400 (talk) 09:01, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

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IP edit

Dear IP,

no, just some parts of today's Slovenia were part of Austria, other's were part of Hungary, etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:56, 10 July 2020 (UTC))

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