Talk:Autonomist Party

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Troublesome sentence[edit]

"...argued for the historical autonomy of the Kingdom of Dalmatia, stressing that it had no connection whatsoever with Croatia. Though he admitted that the majority of the population was Slav in language, mentality and outlook, he pointed out thats is higher culture was Italian."

This will never, I repeat: never, fly.
1) Firstly, he did not argue for the "historical" autonomy of Dalmatia, but for its contemporary autonomy. i.e. its autonomy at that time. Dalmatia does not really have a "historic autonomy" as a region.
2) "stressing that it had no connection whatsoever with Croatia" That point is extremely disputable, and I will not go into it. Suffices to replace "stressing" with "claiming". That's his view? Fine, make sure it is clearly pointed out in the text that this is his own personal view.
3) "he pointed out thats is higher culture was Italian." Outrageous. "pointed out" is unacceptable as it does not stress that this is his opinion. Replaced with "felt", which makes it clear these are his own opinions and not indisputable facts. Further, added inverted commas to "higher" since no culture is considered "higher" or "superior" in the non-fascist parts of the world.
--DIREKTOR (TALK) 17:25, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1) Yes. He wants the contemporary autonomy. But you should know that many Dalmatians believed that the Kingdom of Dalmatia had remained essentially autonomous in his title since the time of the ancient Romans. Even Giovanni Lucio / Ivan Lucic, strongly affirmed the concept in his "De Regno Dalmatiae et Croatiae". In a letter to his friend Da Ponte, he wrote: "se la disputa ha da stare nel titolo regio, le isole del levante non formano titolo; e se bene Sansovino dice che lo stato di terraferma, Friuli e Istria, formano un altro regno, questo è parte dell'Impero occidentale, anzi del Regno d'Italia, onde alli Veneziani resta la Dalmazia, ché, se l'affetto non mi inganna e se comincia a crivellare le cose, qui si cascarà al sicuro". I'm sorry for you, but Giovanni Lucio / Ivan Lucic never wrote in "Slavic".
2) Claiming, is better. Dalmatian Croatians of course did not agree with him.
3) Yes, it was his own opinion. But if you read something more (in the original text, maybe...), you will realize with great surprise that many Dalmatians - even of Croatian Party - said the same things, namely that the Italian culture had made civil Dalmatia. This is not an opinion of value: is an historical fact. Many Dalmatian Croatians then pursued the following policy: to awaken the spirit of the Croatian people, it should eliminate the Italians from Dalmatia, regarded as a dangerous and unwanted guest. Miho Klaic said many times: "We must eliminate any Italian influence in Dalmatia: schools and language. Then the fake Dalmatian Italians would revert to Croatians".--151.48.5.145 (talk) 18:02, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Italian names?[edit]

I think the IP is right. See for example Krekich, Ziliotto and Ghiglianovich.--MacLot (talk) 13:36, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A CU request will be filed. In the meantime, bear in mind that the history of Dalmatia is Croatian history, since Dalmatia is an integral part of Croatia. Furthermore, Dalmatia was, at the time, more than 4/5 Slavic (approximately). These people were known in their hometowns, and lands by their Slavic names. This article was written by Italian radicals already banned for their fanaticism and POV, their use of Italian names is understandable, however Wikipedia cannot allow such errors. Your sources are written in the Italian language and cannot be used to prove anything in this respect. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 16:11, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, I'll add what I've always cautioned in similar debates: there are always exceptions. Most of these good folks are obscure Dalmatian political figures, but if some were indeed later Italian citizens and senators(!), their names should naturally stay Italian, but these are exceptions, in general the italianization of Dalmatian names can't stand. In either case, if your recently created account turns out to be another sockpuppet of User:PIO, all your edits will be reverted. I've had enough of the guy. If not, please accept my deepest and most sincere apologies, I can only say in my defense that there have been very many of the guy's socks, and that you responded on this obscure article immediately after his IP did. I hope you can see that anyone can commit the error. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 16:29, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to request a CU. Please, provide sources about a certain "Luj Ziliotto". "Luigi Ziliotto" was an Italian irredentist, Italian Senator, first mayor of Zadar after 1918. His name was "Luj"? Are you really sure? Who, where, when?--MacLot (talk) 16:24, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I found also this source about Vincenzo Duplancich. In Croatian!--MacLot (talk) 16:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's one, he and the senators can stay in Italian, the rest should be translated to English without (non-Italian language) sources to the contrary. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 16:34, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Right.--MacLot (talk) 16:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Amazing. Excellent work on sourcing the party members. That's exactly the kind of work Dalmatian articles need: proper sources, and lots of them. :) --DIREKTOR (TALK) 14:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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