Talk:Baby of the House

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Inconsistency on World Record and lack of Citations

The article has two uncited claims, within a handful of lines, of World Record holders as youngest MP for both Sweden and Uganda. I say uncited as the citation which refers to the youngest MP for Sweden links to a Wordpress article seemingly about the Ugandan MP but is however dead.

Also, in general, this article has an astounding lack of references, citations and reliability that is somewhat shocking, with most referring to the United Kingdom's Parliament (10 of 16), the dead reference above, and several articles lacking citations altogether, though highly linked to other pages which may or may not be reliable, as if editors had been so lazy as to simply scalp the information off of them without regard to citations. 80.47.174.102 (talk) 09:24, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

Add ages? Morwen - Talk 11:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC) RodCrosby Yes note 4 superfluous, really. If there was any confusion at all, it was resolved within days of 1997 Election RodCrosby[reply]

Not on dozens of websites - I think this pre-emptive note should avoid helpful users who have seen those incorrect sites attempting to "correct" our entry. Warofdreams talk 15:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

if we had to add a note to clarify every error on every other website.....RodCrosby

And indeed in the Commons in 1999, someone claimed that Ward was the youngest MP, and was then immediately corrected by her. Morwen - Talk 15:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There will always be confusion over the youngest MP, youngest woman, youngest conservative, etc. Probably has been on every occasion since the year dot... Nothing special about that...1997 is ancient history now anyway...If it was the current holder I could see the point, maybe.RodCrosby

I think this is a particularly widespread error. I searched a lot of internet sites to check information on this list, and the only errors I found were this one re: Claire Ward, some accepting Archer's claim to have been the youngest MP (which is now covered in the intro), and many listing Mosley as the youngest MP in '18, when he was actually just the youngest to take his seat (and which I reckon is worth a note when the list gets that far back). I can guarantee you that if the note is removed, the name will be changed by someone. There's no disadvantage in keeping the note, to clarify the situation. Warofdreams talk 17:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

factoid

RodCrosby don't quite get this David. If it's what I think you mean, shouldn't it be from sometime in 1999, when Kennedy became LibDem leader? Hague 1997-2001, Blair 1994-

changed 2000 to 1999. RodCrosby 11:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Awww

Now I feel bad, I'm 22, and some of these guys were serving in the house at my age...cries at lack of accomplishments in life - interesting article though, cheers. Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 20:30, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bobby Sands and Owen Carron

As neither of these men took the oath to the Queen, though elected, they were never MPs and thus never "babies of the House." I have removed them as such. Wally 03:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edward Turnour

Edward Turnour also served as Father of the House!Lisiate 23:50, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Who was the youngest?

The article on Bernadette_Devlin_McAliskey makes a number of claims about her record, but this article has no definitive statement about who was the youngest ever, and at what age? Can those who know rectify this? --mervyn 15:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I note also that the article Mid Ulster (UK Parliament constituency) says: "At the age of 21, Devlin was the youngest person ever elected to the House of Commons in the era of universal suffrage." Can this article also clarify that claim? --mervyn 15:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to [1], the main source for this article, Devlin was 21 years and 344 days old at election, making her the youngest MP only since Hugh Lucas-Tooth who was 21 years 290 days at election in 1924, so the claim that Devlin was the youngest MP under universal suffrage is incorrect. Philip Christopher Clarke may well also have been younger; his date of birth seems to be unknown, but he is known to have been 21 at the time of his election. Devlin is, however, the youngest female MP ever. Edward Turnour is the youngest MP on this list whose date of birth is known; he was 21 years 144 days at election. As you go further back, fewer MPs have a date of birth that is known, so it probably won't be possible to definitively find the youngest ever. Warofdreams talk 21:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure I read somewhere that there were teenage MPs sitting in the House of Commons a few centuries ago, long before most men could vote. Dovea 14:45, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some clarifications

Edward Turnour was actually aged 21 years 221 days [born 4 April 1883; elected 11 November 1904] so he is "eliminated"
The youngest male is Esmond Harmsworth (born 29 May 1898; elected 15 November 1919 aged 21 years 170 days)
universal suffrage in the UK is usually taken as running from the Representation of the People Act 1928 so that eliminates Hugh Lucas-Tooth
There are cases of minors being elected pre the Reform Act 1832 - but the facts are very muddled e.g. Edmund Waller is given as 16, ODNB says 18.

So it seems fair to say that: (of those whose age can be verified)

Bernadette Devlin is the youngest female MP and the youngest MP elected in the era of universal suffrage (by my calculations she was actually aged 21 years 350 days).
Esmond Harmsworth is the youngest MP since the Reform Act 1832 (21 years 170 days).

Any advances!!! --mervyn 13:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Devlin was born 23/4/1947, elected 17/4/1969 NOT 7/4/1969, making her 21 years 359 days.... bbc report[2] RodCrosby 20:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the check - I also checked it at this useful site. I see that the BBC itself offers two other different incorrect dates here and here !!! --mervyn 13:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Emily Benn

The 17-year-old granddaughter of Tony Benn was recently selected as youngest ever Labour PPC, for East Worthing and Shoreham, and will be the youngest (since 1832) if elected at the next general election. -- !! ?? 13:59, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't you just know it?

"Becoming the Baby of the House is regarded as something of an achievement, and for example, Jeffrey Archer incorrectly claimed to have been the youngest MP at the time of his election."

No comment. BTLizard (talk) 14:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Basil de Ferranti

Could someone else look into the possibility that, on 6 November 1958, my father Basil de Ferranti became the "baby of the house", albeit for only 14 days? The page [3] would appear to support this claim. Incredibly enough, if it is true, it never came to my attention before. Viewfinder (talk) 07:39, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you appear to be correct, if the recorded dates of birth of Robert Cooke and your father are accurate. The Morecambe & Lunesdale and East Aberdeenshire by-elections were 14 days apart, so your father was indeed the Baby during this period. I will update the main page accordingly... RodCrosby (talk) 21:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I added a footnote and by-election source in case the update is disbelieved or challenged, I hope this is OK. Interestingly, my mother also had no knowledge of this, but I checked out the winners of all the other 1957 and 1958 by-elections and found none who were younger. Viewfinder (talk) 07:03, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Benn versus Teevan

Tony Benn in his autobiog "Dare to be a Daniel" claims that for 24hrs he preceded Thomas Leslie Teevan as BotH, Benn taking his oath on 4 December 1950 and Teevan on 5 December 1950. Can anyone check this against the sources? --mervyn (talk) 15:49, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to be correct

Benn Teevan RodCrosby (talk) 16:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for checking that and updating this article. I have updated Benn, Teevan and Peter Baker (UK politician). Hopefully no loose ends. --mervyn (talk) 09:19, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Inconsistency

Does one have to take the oath to be considered Baby of the House? The inclusion of Benn ahead of Teevan (note 5) seems to imply that one does - but the inclusion of Sands and Carron on the list implies one does not.

Can someone with more knowledge than me please resolve the inconsistency? LondonStatto (talk) 17:57, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ted Kennedy and Henry Clay

Henry Clay was sworn in to his first term as Senator when he was still 29, and Ted Kennedy was sworn in on his 30th birthday. Why aren't they on the lists?

I placed them on the list. DJ Jones74 (talk) 06:37, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Title passes WP:V?

Lots of RS for who was the youngest in various places at different times, but is there any verifiability for the term "Baby of the House"? I couldn't spot it - but may have missed it. --Dweller (talk) 11:53, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are various reliable sources using the term in relation to the British House of Commons returned by Google Books - see [4]. Warofdreams talk 12:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Al Franken ( Seniority & Baby of the United States Senate )

From: Seniority in the United States Senate 100 Al Franken (D-MN) July 7, 2009[14]

[14] Al Franken was elected to the senate term that began on Jan 3, 2009, but due to legal challenges, could not be sworn in until July 7, 2009. (see United States Senate election in Minnesota, 2008 for more details). His seniority date is based on the date he was sworn in (see Rushing, J. Taylor (July 8, 2009).

Is Al Franken the "Baby of the United States Senate" ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.79.57.4 (talk) 14:24, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No Gang14 (talk) 18:23, 25 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why ? Can you explain please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.79.57.4 (talk) 15:04, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Franken is 58 years old; Kirsten Gillibrand is 42. Frank | talk 15:24, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

thank you very much! I thought the Baby-title was due to seniority sorry !

This is Wikipedia. We have a list for that too! Frank | talk 12:18, 2 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This term is not used in the United States at all

I'm planning to rewrite the article to change all references to "Baby of the House/Senate" to "youngest member," which is how they are actually referred to. The article should not apply the title inappropriately.JTRH (talk) 13:45, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. In fact, since these "baby" terms are not used in the U.S., I don't understand why the U.S. is even mentioned in this article other than to say the terms are not used here. I don't think we need lists of the youngest members of the House or Senate since no real note is taken of that fact in this country. I don't think we have lists of the oldest members. (We do have articles on the "Deans" of the houses but that is based on tenure, not age.) I have mixed feelings about removing these tables since it appears that someone(s) did a lot of work in creating them. What does anybody else think? Neutron (talk) 18:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A google news search certainly reveals credible hits for both "baby of the Senate" and "baby of the House". I'm not claiming this constitutes widespread usage of the terms, but they certainly have been used in the past. And, while the construct may differ, being the youngest member is noted in the House and the Senate and apparently has been for over 100 years. Frank | talk 19:24, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I see no problem with preserving the youngest member tables, even though that role doesn't even have symbolic responsibilities associated with it. It's an interesting statistic, the youngest member is indeed noted and acknowledged, and there are several tables on Wikipedia related to longevity of both age and service for members of Congress. I changed the term "baby" to "youngest member" and inserted the statement that "baby" isn't used in the U.S., because I didn't know it had even been used historically until the above editor posted those links. It certainly isn't in contemporary use in the U.S.JTRH (talk) 21:11, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is 2006 in USA Today not contemporary? Frank | talk 20:30, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not an official title in the U.S., as it appears to be in many parliamentary systems. Applying that term to U.S. officials in this article makes it seem to be an official designation, which is inaccurate. JTRH (talk) 21:18, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The originally stated reason for the rewrite is that the term is not used in the US, which it clearly is. Now that a reference has shown it in contemporary usage (and it's already been shown in historical usage in the US), the new reason is that it's not official. Yet the very first sentence of the article clearly defines the term as an unofficial title. How would that then make it "seem to be an official designation"? Frank | talk 21:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I rephrased it to be somewhat less definitive. I hope that addresses your concerns. JTRH (talk) 23:15, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I am kinda holding out for the tables, which I think added to the article. Frank | talk 23:30, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have no issue at all with the tables being there. I just think the appellation "youngest member" rather than "baby" more accurately reflects usage in the U.S. JTRH (talk) 01:52, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

New Baby of the House in Canada!

After the May 2nd election in Canada, the youngest MP in Canada to be in Canadian House of Commons is Pier-Luc Dusseault, elected at 19 years old in Sherbrooke (Québec). He was born May 31st 1990. Just someone make the correction on the page! Thanks! Fabzzz (talk) 02:06, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence

Is there any evidence that the term "baby of the House" is used in the UK at all? Not one reference is cited. The suggestion that the term, if it exists at all, is "most often applied to members of the British parliament" looks like the work of a Wikipedia editor with an overactive imagination, or a practical joke at the expense of Wikipedia and its editors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.196.231.122 (talk) 16:26, 13 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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