Talk:Backstreet Boys/Archive 3

I'm a BSB fan, but I don't want to be pulled my leg, let's get serious about musicianship

AJ violin?? I don't mind what you can play at home, if we want to be serious, we should just consider the instruments played in the albums (and being generous, in the tours). Not even the piano played by Kevin is credited in none of the 7 BSB albums. And we shouldn't even talk about the others being credited as musicians in the cd booklets. If we talk about tours, yes, Kevin has played the piano in several performances, Nick has played guitar and drums as something excepcional, Brian Guitar (but not as a backstreet boy, rather promoting his solo album), AJ bass in a solo song in 2001 as Johnny No Name, and stop counting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.54.194.92 (talk) 21:04, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 July 2012

Jjparys252 (talk) 23:22, 19 July 2012 (UTC) The Backstreet Boys' career started in the early 90's in Orlando, Florida with Donna Wright (owner of wrightstuff management) as their manager. She along with Jive Records launched their careers first in Europe, and then the United States.

if you can provide a source to that I'll add it. I also know they toured many high schools at the beginning before making it big in Europe.--Krystaleen 02:15, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

marking this answered. It can be reopened when a source is provided. RudolfRed (talk) 05:23, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Backstreet Boys Album Selling

160 million records http://www.officialcharts.com/features/backstreet-street-boys-interview/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramon.rlm (talk • contribs) 22:10, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

GMA photo?

Does anybody have a free photo of them performing at GMA? This article could use a new photo. I've searched but couldn't find any that is free.--Krystaleen 07:07, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Notability

Okay, let's see.

1. Richardson holding an intervention for him is notable because that's the sole reason he went to rehab. The postponed shows are also notable as it's a direct result of it.

2. "The group resisted the release as they felt that it was too early in their career for such an album and that it would ruin their plan to mark the group's 10th anniversary in 2003 with a greatest-hits release, but Jive Records went ahead and released the album after a long debate." this is notable as it's the beginning of their fallout with Jive.

3. "However, Carter chose to remain with The Firm to manage his solo career. Shortly afterwards, the rest of the group began recording their next album without him. Jive, according to industry observers, had no choice but to bank on releasing Carter's first solo album by the end of the year." This is also notable as it directly involves the group and how their relationship with label and among themselves fell apart, which caused the inevitable hiatus.

4. "As of 2010, the Backstreet Boys had sold over 130 million records worldwide and had 12 Top 40 hits on the Billboard charts." from WP:LEAD: "Significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article" Therefore it has to be put in the body of the article.

5. "McLean and Littrell later revealed on separate occasions that Richardson's return had been happening since 2010, before NKOTBSB Tour started; but he decided not to join the tour and just wait until after the tour to properly rejoin the Backstreet Boys. The group supported his decision and kept his return a secret until the tour was over." This is notable as it explains why he wasn't on NKOTBSB and it provides context to the following quote by Littrell since the quote is about why they postponed his return until after NKOTBSB instead of just why he's back.

--Krystaleen 10:42, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Let me first start off with points 4 and 5 as these are easy to explain:

4) What WP:LEAD says is that events, like ,say, them releasing a new album should be mentioned in the article if they're mentioned in the lead. But what we're talking about here is how many records they've sold; it's a statistic that summarizes their career, not an event. It's not something that happened at any particular time. Just see any GA article, like Linkin Park's.

5) Enough has been said about Richardson joining them and all the speculation that preceded it. Adding any bit of extra information is absolutely unnecessary, and it really doesn't explain why Richardson wasn't a part of NKOTBSB because he wasn't supposed, or expected, to be. He was not a part of BSB when NKOTBSB was formed, so why would anyone expect him to be a part of the new supergroup?

KingdomHearts25 (talk) 10:52, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I can take the point 4 explanation, but here's for point five. That's exactly the entire reason why I included that, because we just assumed he wasn't part of NKOTBSB because he wasn't part of BSB. However, McLean and Littrell just revealed that he actually was a part of BSB before it all started. It's just that he decided to sit that one out but he's actually had indeed been a part of BSB since 2010. They just kept it a secret. That is notable and hasn't been covered anywhere in the article. This has nothing to do with the speculation preceding the announcement.--Krystaleen 10:57, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Now, to the the other three:

1) We all know that Mclean went to rehab and that's basic. The behind-the-scenes events that forced him into the rehab is more detailed and that could be on Mclean's page.

2) and 3) Like I just said, these are more detailed and could be on The Hits: Chapter One's and Carter's individual pages. The basic information regarding this matter is that they released a greatest hits album, and soon afterwards (or before) they filed a lawsuit.

Again for 5) As I've said before, behind-the-scenes events can stick to the individual articles. There is already too much information regarding NKOTBSB and Richardson, and the whole point of my edits was to shorten the article.

KingdomHearts25 (talk) 11:03, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

1) I can see why you'd consider that unimportant behind the scene that is only suitable in McLean's page. I would agree IF the force behind that doesn't have anything to do with the group, like his mom or girlfriend, for example. But this is another member of the group who made it happen, and therefore notable for this main group article.

2) and 3) Same as the above, I still think it's notable because it directly involved and affected the group and explains why they took the step they took after these events. And also it mentions the group recording without Carter, I don't see how this is not notable.

5) I still disagree. That is very notable. You can shorten the article, and you've shortened it quite a bit, but there's no reason to cut off important info.

--Krystaleen 11:08, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Point 5 isn't important info. The important info would be that Richardson said he'd join (and later did). Anything other than that is unimportant. The secrets that members kept and later revealed can be used in news articles and individual pages, but on the main article, a couple of sentences is more than enough. Once again, the problems between Carter, the group and the company can be explained in detail in an MTV or a Business Insider article, but on Wikipedia, we don't have to make things too complicated. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 11:18, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

So we didn't reach a consensus here. I don't think those are too detailed or complicated, and they are indeed not more than a couple short sentences.--Krystaleen 11:23, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I meant that there were already a couple of sentences and adding a couple more would be unnecessary. We could bring in another, neutral editor to sort out this issue. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 11:28, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Yep. Just re-read the paragraph concerning point 5 though now. It looks weird as it started with Richardson rejoining and cuts off to a quote by Littrell explaining why he wasn't with NKOTBSB. There's no context. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about simplifying and shortening the article and I have no problems with all the other material you removed, but these 5 right here are notable. If you think they're too long you can simplify the sentences. I already did for point 5, before you reverted me.--Krystaleen 11:31, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Wasn't the quote just saying that it was a good thing to have Richardson back? I don't see anything about him explaining why he wasn't in NKOTBSB. Anyway, I still think that these five points should be left out as well. The article is bigger than it's supposed to be and really needs some work done on it. I was planning on removing and shortening more stuff, but I stopped as we had already started edit-warring. I think the best solution would be to bring a third editor and let him/her decide what needs to be done. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 11:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

No, the quote was why he wasn't in NKOTBSB. He specifically said that it's because to maximize the ability of them 5 it wouldn't be with another group (a.k.a with NKOTB a.k.a NKOTBSB tour) but on their own. The article is bigger than it's supposed to be? How? It's not even 75K. One Direction is much bigger (95K!) and it's GA. This article can't be much shorter, the group's gonna turn 20 next year, a lot has happened, you can't expect it to be under 50K or something.--Krystaleen 11:51, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I could point to a million artists much more accomplished than the Backstreet Boys who have much smaller articles. Artists that are currently popular like One Direction and Justin Bieber tend to have big articles (because of their massive fanbase), but for the BSB, I'd say anything bigger than 50-60k is too big. Besides, I think the One Direction article has the biographies of the individual members on the same page. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 11:57, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how accomplishment has anything to do with article size. It's about how many things have happened. Let's face it, these past 20 years BSB is full of drama. Besides, Spice Girls is also around 95K. This article is nowhere near "too big". And then there's the fact this article still needs an artistry/musical style section like all the other groups'.--Krystaleen 12:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

The Spice Girls actually have had a much bigger impact on the industry than the Backstreet Boys. And it's not about article size, it's about quality. When I said the article was too big, I meant that it had too much of unnecessary information. If the 75k (or 80) could be put out in a professional manner (like the One Direction or the Spice Girls articles), I would have absolutely no problem. Besides, for every Spice Girls or One Direction you mention, I could mention far more 90's artists who've done much more than the BSB, but who've a much smaller article. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 12:09, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

How is the article not professional? It's in a good shape, way better shape than the Spice Girls article in fact, and it serves its purpose just fine, not too big, not too small. And it's not like you copy edited it to be more professional, no, you just remove stuff. Like I said, I agree with the other stuff you removed, as they're not that notable, but I don't agree with these five. And I don't care how many 90s artists have smaller article, that doesn't even have anything to do with our discussion. Also, which artist have bigger impact depends on where you are located. Spice Girls and One Direction are never as big as BSB or Westlife over here. Besides, I still don't see any relation between accomplishment/impact/popularity and article size.--Krystaleen 12:13, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm guessing you're from the Philippines. It's in an alright shape, I would probably call it B-class. I never wanted to go into the "90s artists" and veer off the discussion until you brought up the Spice Girls. I haven't copy-edited it yet, but I'm planning to in the future. I thought I'd start with trimming it first and then refine it. So yes, the more I trimmed, the more the quality increased. KingdomHearts25 (talk) 12:20, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

To add my point, the info relating to the revised contract is notable but it's unsourced so I agreed with you when you removed it. I brought up Spice Girls' article, not the group themselves, you were the one who brought up their impact/popularity. Okay let's stop talking about other groups and comparing popularity as it's off-topic. I don't know about the quality increasing after you trimmed it. Yes it does increase before you removed these 5 points, but after you did that? I personally think no.--Krystaleen 12:28, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

So, it looks like we've failed to reach a conclusion. I can only think of bringing a third editor here to decide. What do you think? (and are you actually from the Philippines? Just curious) KingdomHearts25 (talk) 12:32, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I think it would be good, although I don't know how to bring in a neutral editor as we probably wouldn't trust each other to bring one lol Maybe just wait until one come along? And no, I'm not from the Philippines :) Oh and I hope we're not going to hate each other because of this, I really don't want to make enemies. I'm still open to rewording some of these sentences though, particularly Richardson confronting McLean, them recording without Carter, and the Richardson being back before NKOTBSB bits. The rest I guess can fit in the album article, although that means starting a new section in there (?)--Krystaleen 12:59, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

All right, I'll add these four points and re-word them. As far as bringing in a neutral editor is concerned, I'm not sure myself. The rest, as you said, can be added to the individual pages. And I'm still curious, where are you from lol? KingdomHearts25 (talk) 13:20, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

That's cool. Nice to finally reach a conclusion here. I'm gonna add some of those things to The Hits: Chapter One. I currently live in Indonesia, I'm not a native Indonesian though.--Krystaleen 14:25, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

It's been a while, I guess I'm gonna add these myself?--Krystaleen 04:12, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I've readded the parts, reworded them, added a section and tried my best to trim the article.--Krystaleen 07:27, 23 October 2012 (UTC)