Talk:Bajirao I/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Untitled

Reverting possible vandalism by a number of users - around the time a popular movie has been released based on Bajirao Peshwa I, a number of users have destructed this article into a small ineffective one. A number of users including but not only Sitush have removed this article in a series of unnecessary edits. I believe these edits when a movie is released on the Peshwa Bajirao I is politically motivated. In true spirits of Wikipedia for sharing knowledge and facts I have reverted some changes. Rahulchic (talk) 04:15, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

@Rahulchic: Nothing is politically motivated. Sitush removed a large chunk that was copyright violation, besides quote farm / POV / unsourced. Please don't simply add it back without addressing any of those issues. Copyright violators will be blocked. utcursch | talk 04:42, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
@Utcursch: This selective inclusion and exclusion based on fancies of a few people or a group on the basis of so called copyright violations (can you be sure that for all other matters published in this article or in other Wikipedia articles a written permission has been taken?) is naturally suspicious. This article used to be extensive and after removing aspects like caste of Peshwa Bajirao saying (caste claim removed) and so other things, especially time of this edit campaign (when a movie is released) easily point towards political motivation. You did ban me without giving me a chance to reply back to you. You can be seen as a trigger happy moderator with little patience. Rahulchic (talk) 05:28, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
Replied on your talk page. utcursch | talk 06:06, 24 December 2015 (UTC)


Map of India

The map of India in this page is not accurate. It seems to be of a foreign language, possibly Russian and the J&K map is not correct. I have checked other maps of India and they are in line with the map of India that 'INDIA' claims to be right. What is the Wikipedia India group's stance on map of India?

Harishamur (talk) 15:10, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


Personal Life

The "personal life" section of this article is not only subpar but thouroughly misleading. Probably linked to the 2015 Movie. Current article version seems to suggest the entire "Mastani" romance is fiction, whereas linked articles regarding both {{Mastani}} and {{Shamsher Bahadur I (Krishna Rao)}} cite them as existing.

Entire section should be reworked.

Most of the text in there is cited to verifiable content. You are most welcome to revise/ correct/ re-phrase the info, as long as you are able to provide the necessary citations :) I am more than willing to help. Please do not hesitate to ask if you don't know how. -MayureshK 14:48, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
In any case, I have revamped this section to remove text so as to have it focus more on Baji Rao instead of his wife and children - which have their own articles. Hopefully this should give you sufficient space to add what you feel is missing. -MayureshK 16:52, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Bajirao or Baji Rao?

This is an interesting one. The "rao" in the subject's title is a traditional Marathi honorific suffix usually added to a person's first name (in my case, it would be Mayuresh-rao or Mayureshrao). This is loosely on the same lines as San (Japanese honorific) in Japanese. Does it make sense for the article to be renamed "Bajirao I"? This would also bring it in line with Madhavrao I and Raghunathrao. Also, this article currently uses a mix of "Baji Rao" and "Bajirao" - something I intend to fix. This comes in response to this message by @Mkarja. I have been provided these (1,2,3 and 4) references. I thought I'd put this up for discussion before making any changes. Any comments/ objections/ I agree-s? Thanks. -MayureshK 10:53, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:27, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Baji rao or Bajirao

One rarely finds a person with the first name, Baji. Even in his hometown of Pune, the road named in honor of this Peshwa is called Bajirao road, and not Baji rao road.Please guide me in what I need to do the name corrected. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 22:17, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes its Bajirao not Baji Rao. Mahusha (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:46, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Untitled

I cleaned this up somewhat, but it still needs work.

--BKHal2007 03:33, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)BKHal2007

Shamsher Bahadur statement Mahusha (talk) 09:46, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

For shamsher bahadur statement Mahusha (talk) 09:47, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Citation is provided to that one statement also, which didn't have citation Mahusha (talk) 03:20, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Ok Mahusha (talk) 18:17, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I have tried to correct the neutrality issues please check once. Thankyou! Mahusha (talk) 06:51, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Citations

I have compiled and cleaned up the duplicate citations using {{harvp}}. However, Sitush pointed out that I am possibly violating WP:CITEVAR. While I don't completely disagree now that I have read it, there was definitely a lot of duplication (see WP:DUPREF) and inconsistency in citations of the same source, which I have fixed through my work. If it is still a major issue then I am willing to revert my edits. SerChevalerie (talk) 08:46, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I think you are going to have to. I like {{sfnp}} but it causes a lot of problems for people and this is likely to be a high-traffic article with a lot of inexperienced contributors. Many won't even know how to use {{cite book}} etc, let alone anything more complex that involves having a separate bibliographical list. In these circumstances, experience has taught me to stick with the most common of the many template variants, which is what this article was already using, and just live with the clutter they create. - Sitush (talk) 09:47, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
By the way, I think you may have misunderstoof DUPREF. There were already consolidated cites and any remaining ones could have been consolidated using the same <ref name="xyz"> and <ref name="xyz"/> style. - Sitush (talk) 09:50, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I forgot to mention, I've already reverted my edits. I would like to, however, propose the change in citation style so as to clean up the wiki markup. It looks neat on the frontend too, for the reader. Best regards, SerChevalerie (talk) 11:16, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
By the time we have shifted all of the poor sources from the 1940s, many of which we seem to have either copied directly or very closely paraphrased, there won't be much left of it anyway. - Sitush (talk) 08:53, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Information Plaque Pictures

Mr. Ghatus, I do not see any reason why the pictures of information plaque (describing greatness of Bajirao I) should not be here. If the greatness of Bajirao The First should not be on this page, then please suggest which page it can fit in? Those information plaques were installed by the Government. It is not my personal work!

Amit20081980 02:31, 31 Jul 2014 (UTC)

Titles and Commemorations

I agree that there might have been some kind vandalism due to a movie being released on this topic, but strongly suggest to reinstate two things - one is titles of nobility and the other is the commemorations. Please check the below references.

  • Painting - a painting of Peshwa is present at Parvati Hills. Not sure why that picture was removed. What's the big deal in it?
  • Commemorations - There are two statues of Bajirao I in Maharashtra. It had a citation from Times of India. Again, this is something which is not sensitive. Not sure why was it removed

All in all, I feel the entire article has been revamped and somehow the new article looks like a product of vandalism

Amit20081980 16:17, 25 Dec 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Baji Rao I/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Majun e Baqi (talk · contribs) 16:13, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


@Mahusha: Hi, I would like to review this for good article status

Comment article seems to be complete with sufficient media for good article

comment article is not showing copy right violationsMajun e Baqi (talk) 16:53, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

@Mahusha: The article is still containing some statements which are lacking citations, so article needs improvement before promotion to Good Article, Please let me know if you are interested to improve, thanksMajun e Baqi (talk) 05:38, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

There is only one statement that needs citation, I will find the citation for it but I think the article is suitable for good article criteria. Thankyou! Mahusha (talk) 06:10, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

@Mahusha: It would be better if you will provide Inline citation to this

Baji Rao's dash on Delhi may be said to mark apogee of his career. It was executed with such daring and audacity that neither the Mughal generals nor the Mughal intelligence could comprehend or predict Bajirao's moves.Majun e Baqi (talk) 06:28, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Ok, there is citation for it I will provide. Mahusha (talk) 06:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Done provided the inline citation for the above statement. Mahusha (talk) 06:38, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

@Mahusha: thanks, please provide Inline citation for it

Nanasaheb was appointed as Peshwa by Chhatrapati Shahu in 1740, succeeding his father. and this

The boy was eventually named Shamsher Bahadur and brought up as a Muslim.


Majun e Baqi (talk) 06:52, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Done, provided the citation. Mahusha (talk) 07:14, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

@Mahusha: kindly provide the page number to the citation to above statement, so that statement can be verifiedMajun e Baqi (talk) 09:11, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Page number 27 Mahusha (talk) 09:36, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

@Mahusha:

For which statement?

For Samsher Bahadur statement Mahusha (talk) 15:25, 12 July 2020 @Mahusha:

I have Verified that statement, thanks  Done


@Mahusha:

Please provide the other statements page number mentioned above which you citedMajun e Baqi (talk) 10:09, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Kindly provide an inline citations along with its page numberMajun e Baqi (talk) 10:22, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Baji Rao moved his base of operations from Saswad to Pune in 1728 and in the process laid the foundation for turning what was a kasba into a large city.[55] Bajirao also started construction of Shaniwar Wada on the right bank of the Mutha River. The construction was completed in 1730, ushering in the era of Peshwa control of the city.

Done, provided the citation Mahusha (talk) 10:55, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

@Mahusha:

Comment The article is cited with the verifiable citation with no original researchMajun e Baqi (talk) 09:52, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

There is a bit neutrality issues, kindly be active on the discussion for further improvement, thanksMajun e Baqi (talk) 09:52, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

@Mahusha:

In his 20 year career, Bajirao never lost a single battle,

However, as a new Peshwa, he faced several challenges:[3]

His appointment as the Peshwa at a young age had evoked jealousy from senior officials like Naro Ram Mantri, Anant Ram Sumant and Shripatrao Pant Pratinidhi. This led Bajirao to promote as commanders young men like himself who were barely out of teens such as Malhar Rao Holkar, Ranoji Shinde and the Pawar brothers. Also, these men did not belong to families that held hereditary Deshmukhi rights under the Deccan Sultanates.[23]

His skill lie in manoeuvering of a huge cavalry with a great speed.[61]

Liberal in rewarding merit,


although it is giving information about the subject but likely to praising the subject, please write in more encyclopaedic form, kindly let me know if you're interested to improve, thanksMajun e Baqi (talk) 09:56, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

1) In his 20 year career, Bajirao never lost a single battle,

After studying the whole history of Baji Rao, we can see that he remain undefeated in his whole career. Yes that line is praising the subject, but I think that line is important in the article of warrior like Baji Rao who remain undefeated in his whole career. If you want citation for it, I can provide. A news paper article can be provided as a reference for it.

2) However, as a new Peshwa, he faced several challenges:[3]

His appointment as the Peshwa at a young age had evoked jealousy from senior officials like Naro Ram Mantri, Anant Ram Sumant and Shripatrao Pant Pratinidhi. This led Bajirao to promote as commanders young men like himself who were barely out of teens such as Malhar Rao Holkar, Ranoji Shinde and the Pawar brothers. Also, these men did not belong to families that held hereditary Deshmukhi rights under the Deccan Sultanates.[23]

This is truth. I can provide one more authentic reference for it.

3) His skill lie in manoeuvering of a huge cavalry with a great speed.[61]

This line shows the battle tactics of Baji Rao. I think it is important to write this line. It was one of the main battle tactics of Bajirao.

4)Liberal in rewarding merit,

This kind of praise lines are even found in the articles of other great warriors like Alexander the Great, Napoleon Bonaparte etc. But I am ready to take this line down, but I cant remove the line Cowardice and remissness were the two things he hated the most in his men, and when he detected the least sign of them he came down upon the offender with a very heavy hand, because this is supported by authentic reference. There is a contemporary letter of Bajirao in which he have scolded a man because he didn't done his work properly. This line is authenticated by a contemporary reference.

I have provided my points. But please reply me, I am happy to improve that lines and write it other ways. Mahusha (talk) 17:56, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

@Mahusha: It is better to be on safer side, kindly write the above mentioned statement into more formal toneMajun e Baqi (talk) 15:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Ok Mahusha (talk) 15:05, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I will improve the lines Mahusha (talk) 15:08, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Mahusha, thanks for your cooperation towards the reviewMajun e Baqi (talk) 15:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, because I worked on this article for years, I want this article to get a good article status Mahusha (talk) 15:17, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Mahusha,
The nominator of this article was active in the review process and substantially improved the article according to good article criteria, so in its present form it is clearly passing all the criteria for good article so promoting it to Good Article, thanksMajun e Baqi (talk) 15:21, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Mahusha, hoping that you will solve the neutrality issues soon.
===Quick fail criteria===
  • Not a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria: checkY
  • No copyright violations: None per copyvios.toolforge.org checkY not considerable
  • No cleanup banners: checkY
  • Stable: checkY
  • No previous GA review: checkY
Well written with no original research
So promoting it to Good Article  Done Majun e Baqi (talk) 15:25, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
Mahusha, kindly solve that minor neutrality issues as early as possible Majun e Baqi (talk) 15:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes I will Mahusha (talk) 15:46, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Mahusha, kindly inform me when you will finish it, thanksMajun e Baqi (talk) 15:53, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Please check, I have tried to solve the neutrality issues. Majun e Baqi Mahusha (talk) 12:33, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Mahusha, the article is seem to be written with neutral point of view now
So closing the caseMajun e Baqi (talk) 09:18, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Mahusha, one more suggestion, kindly use wikipedia guild of copy editor option before nominating it for featured article, It needs copy editing by profession experienced editor before nominationMajun e Baqi (talk) 10:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Ok Mahusha (talk) 11:33, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2021

Change calling Maha Mastani concubine to calling Maha Mastani 2nd Wife. 207.255.57.230 (talk) 04:21, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Where in the article does it say Mastani was a concubine? In the 2nd paragraph of Personal Life it says "Baji Rao took Mastani as his wife" Cannolis (talk) 04:39, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Portrit

I have replaced File:Baji Rao I.png with File:Peshwa bajirao3.jpg as it shows his face in more detail so it is more appropriate in the info box. Neither portraits say they are original so nether can be proven "authentic" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8806:403:5100:21CC:96AC:D6A:959B (talk) 23:46, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Nizam's Carnatic campaigns

The user @Thewikiuser1999 have been reverting the topic related to Nizam's Carnatic campaigns in which involvement of Bajirao is noted. I need an explanation or someone else should give an explanation in order to avoid an edit war. Ajayraj890 (talk) 16:18, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi there Ajay, that section of the page is related to BajiRao's Wars which he personally commanded especially Main Article sub-section. It is not related to campaigns where he merely accompanied people via sending his forces or any other means.
However, I respect your efforts and if you feel like it you can still add this new page of yours to the description down below and hyperlink it. Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 21:54, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
It is the subdivision of the military conflicts of Bajirao with the Nizam. Bajirao was accompanied in the conflict, as the sources in the article says. The link should be displayed over the section so that the viewers could learn more about it. Already the links leading to that article is very less. So please don't remove it. Ajayraj890 (talk) 04:31, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
It's alright, you can have it. Thewikiuser1999 (talk) 11:44, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Image

Painting of Bajirao And Mastani c. 1740

This image was taken from Wikimedia but the cited source does not have it. We don't have any proof on it being from 1740 or later, and whether the people depicted in the image are Bajirao and Mastani.I will start a discussion on it on Wikimedia as well. Please comment.Thanks. Jonathansammy (talk) 14:14, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Bajirao I painting

Hi User talk:SKAG123, Is the image in the infobox your own work? Please let us know. Thanks. Jonathansammy (talk) 16:25, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

The portrait is from Collection of Dr. B.R Ambedkar Marathwada University, Aurangabad. I corrected the Source in Commons. SKAG123 (talk) 03:48, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
SKAG123, Is this image from any particular collection? Is it in any book published by the university? or is it on display in the university's museum on maratha history / arts? I am curious to found out. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 17:08, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Balaji and Bajirao painting

Bajirao as a young boy hunting with his father Balaji Vishwanath.

SKAG123, This image seems like a fake or if genuine then wrongly attributed to the Peshwa Balaji Vishwanath and his son. The two hunters almost look identical in age. Alsotheir outfits seem more like those seen in images of Adil shahi sultanate. Thirdly, this is the first time I am seeing this image, and seems from a "private collection". I think if we want to keep this image then additional reliable sources are needed. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 19:46, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

The source does not state the age of Bajirao. It only states "Belaji and his son Bajirao Hunting c.1700-1725"
This is the source.
Navin Kumar Gallery
most of the other paintings are labeled accurately. SKAG123 (talk) 17:42, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
SKAG123, This is a private gallery, and unless you have a good reliable / academic source to back the claim that this is a picture of Balaji and Bajirao hunting then I would request you to remove it. Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 17:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
The gallery where the image is from has various sources for the paintings. I am trying to find the exact source. I will get back when I do.
https://www.navinkumar.com/content/books/india1983/bibliography.html SKAG123 (talk) 17:16, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Intro Battles

They're changing his career highlight battles where he won to newly created battles where they show him as losing in intro section. Battle of Palkhed and Battle of Bhopal already existed as his career highlight, I just reverted it. Hope this clears and if possible protect this page from vandalism. HistoricPilled (talk) 20:00, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Also, the pages where they're changing these already established battles with are controversial because Bajirao didn't have direct involvement in the battle according to their (talk) page and sources.HistoricPilled (talk) 17:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 December 2023

Plz add the following in the first line: Bajirao I (Bajirao Ballal;[1] Marathi pronunciation: [bad͡ʒiɾaːʋ bəlːaːɭ]; 18 August 1700 – 28 April 1740), born as Visaji,[2] also known as "Bajirao the great". SOURCE-> (1) Bajirao the great Peshwa by Cs Srinivasan, 2. Rau by NS Imandar I wanted to add Bajirao the great i have also provided the source besides it which u can cite above it. Plz do it soon. Mohammad Umar Ali (talk) 17:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: as per WP:Commonname. More sources are needed to determine if this is a common used nickname in academic sources. SKAG123 (talk) 01:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Rewriting the article

This articles has had many disrupts by IPs and socks. Therefore a lot of the content is poorly sourced and writing. Many sections, including the lead are to short need to be expanded.

@Sitush can you help with this?

SKAG123 (talk) 05:23, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 December 2023

Change "देवयोद्धा novel" link in "Further reading" section of this article to this link - https://granthpremi.com/products/devyoddha RealDwitiya (talk) 07:38, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Deltaspace42 (talk • contribs) 18:04, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Battles Parameters

@IndicHistorian555, you are removing links from the infobox where there is a seperate parameter for the respective data. And the reason you gave is, that is 'too long', 'poorly sourced' and 'created by myself'. As long as it is strongly cited with reliable sources in the parent article, there is no problem in adding those into the infobox. And your the statement that 'it is too long' is like childish. The infobox have the parameter Wars/Battles for a reason. Don't remove it. Ajayraj890 (talk) 02:12, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

@SKAG123, could you please look into it? It was between @Hassan Gangu and him. It is now semi-protected but I think this will lead to an edit war. Ajayraj890 (talk) 02:14, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
The war section already exists down below no need to add it to template to make it too big and repetitive. Also, I checked, all the articles related to battle wikis you created which are new and not verified plus it shows a bias. You only post articles showing as if BajiRao lost all war because I've not seen a single one of them showing he won any and they're relatively with poor sourcing some of which aren't even contemporary. IndicHistorian555 (talk) 03:06, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
I have restored the page to how it was previously, stop messing up and targetting Hindu pages. IndicHistorian555 (talk) 03:13, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Targeting Hindu pages? Wdym? And for your knowledge, Wikipedia only allows secondary sources. Ajayraj890 (talk) 11:51, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Your sources aren't reliable to begin with and you only create biased battles where you try to show a Hindu Commander or ruler losing to a Muslim Guy, for example, you created several battles recently showing BajiRao losing in wars be wasn't even involved with or had already retreated or went complete opposite to what was portrayed. IndicHistorian555 (talk) 15:05, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
There's a clear bias which is why I removed those new unverified battles. You fail to admit it. IndicHistorian555 (talk) 15:07, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Why should I admit it? You are making your own stories. Additionally, you are not the one who judges the reliability of the sources. And I did't understand what you meant by 'unverified'!? Ajayraj890 (talk) 15:14, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
I would suggest omitting this parameter. Most of these conflicts and battles listed are recently created. I am not even sure if they actually happened or were proper battles as sourcing in the articles is poor. This is also creating edit warring. SKAG123 (talk) 04:41, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I have fully protected the article to stop the edit warring. @IndicHistorian555: I will post at your talk explaining that new editors should ask questions rather than issue directives. You will be blocked if further edit warring occurs. Johnuniq (talk) 03:44, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

I reduced the protection to semi-protection as there will be no further edit warring at the moment. Johnuniq (talk) 05:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
Why is Battle of Palkhed link not there in second para, add that as it happened in 1728 before maratha invasion of deccan and was a prominent battle. Secondly add, Battle of Bhopal link also in the third para as it was one of the most important if not the most important battle in his miltiary career.@Johnuniq

Mohammad Umar Ali (talk) 01:54, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Addition of information in second and third paragraph

Add Battle of Palkhed link in second para, add that as it happened in 1728 before maratha invasion of deccan and was a prominent battle during his tenure as peshwa. Secondly add, Battle of Bhopal link also in the third para as it was one of the most important if not the most important battle in his miltiary career. Mohammad Umar Ali (talk) 16:49, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done cannot link as the first mention of Palkhed is much further down the page and already has a {{main}} hatnote. Same logic for Bhopal. If you want to include more text in the lead, please write your edit request as "add X" or "change X to Y". microbiologyMarcus (petri dish·growths) 19:17, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
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