Talk:Barrier troops

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): J.F. Rowland, Murfyderf3, Vsquad93, Jrlane1, Conortleonard, Jparry2. Peer reviewers: Marxcayla33.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 15:20, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

A mistake?

As far as I know, these troops belonged to SMERSH, not to internal troops of NKVD. Shoud this be fixed?Biophys (talk) 00:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, just need to find a source--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 06:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

the name the name

I really don't like the name as it is now. The task of barrier construction, as most military people understand it, is the job of the combat engineers, even in the Red/Soviet Army. There was no Arm or Service of Barrier troops, as in Cavalry troops either. I had a look at some sources, and use for these particular activities seems to be blocking detachments, in the sense that they were intended to block unwanted retreat by troops. This is also the best translation from Russian--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 07:44, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Aren't these people just the military police?

As far as I know, military police in most modern armies serve the same function. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.149.159.247 (talk) 02:59, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Except that modern military police don't indiscriminately shoot their own soldiers on purpose without a court-martial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.1.1.3 (talk) 06:53, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Did this happen anywhere besides in the Hollywood movie "Enemy at the Gates"? The andf (talk) 23:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

You're ignorant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.43.130.111 (talk) 06:13, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Barrier troops don't indiscriminately shoot their own soldiers. You must to know it, if you read russian documents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.45.78.191 (talk) 08:31, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Generalissimo Suvorov (talk) 21:17, 10 February 2016 (UTC)Suvorov

Early History Paragraph

Should the second paragraph, Early History, be deleted? Though the paragraph is important for this article, there is very little information presented, information is not cited, and there is no sources for claims.J.F. Rowland (talk) 22:29, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Repetition

My issues with the repetition in opening section has already been corrected by me. Please review my work and feel free to edit away on what I've done with it. Thanks. Conortleonard (talk) 06:27, 29 March 2018 (UTC)Conortleonard

Peer Review

I enjoy the background of early uses of the block troops and how that lead in to your article about being used in the Red Army.The body of the article is very well done with the references and the the usage of it throughout the revolution to the 2nd World WarGrubberry (talk) 19:22, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Peer Review

I thought that this article was very well organized, and I like the chronology in which you are tackling the article. The "Early History" portion of the article is rather sparse, but I'm sure more information will be added as we go along. Another strong quality about this article is the use of citations, and reliable sources. The fact that many of these sources are in Russian is awesome because it gives the information a more authentic feel. The section of Barrier Troops in the Red Army is very thorough, and makes up the majority of the whole article. All in all, I am excited to see the finished and completed article! LoAnsons18 (talk) 13:45, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Documents

Its a perfect work with documents. No one link to order about organization of "Zagradotyad", only link on biased sources. Update links please. This for example https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7_%D0%9D%D0%9A%D0%9E_%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0_%D0%BE%D1%82_28.07.1942_%E2%84%96_227 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.76.235.26 (talk) 11:28, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Bias

This article is incredibly biased and lacks the sources needed to justify its extreme claims. I'll have to go through my books and will do a revision soon — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kilometerman (talk • contribs) 16:58, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Barrier Troops Under Attack

Recent edits to this article are Historical negationism to the point that they completely alter the nature of the article. Especially, one source citation is appealing to authority by using the (poorly translated and thus non-sensical) title 'Army General Hero of the Soviet Union' to completely alter the definition of Barrier Troops as used in the USSR. This source citation can be compared to editors appealing to authority. Since the use of Barrier Troops can obviously be seen as non-flattering for a country's history, the article should use references directly from the Army involved in their use with care, if at all, just like an article on the SS would need to be careful in quoting a book from an SS-general regarding their actions. Lklundin (talk) 15:01, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

--- Smersh

Smersh was active between 1943 and 1946. It was the counterintelligence agency of the Red Army. It could not act as blocking unit in 1941-1942. Maja33 NL (talk)Maja33_NL

Use of Volkogonov in Red Army Section

Hello, I am new, so please forgive mistakes. I have tried to use this article as a jumping off point for learning about blocking detachments in the Red Army, but the sourcing here is dire. First of all, all three examples of the use of Volkogonov's Trotsky have the same page, and no chapter, making it impossible to use if you have any different edition. Secondly, I have looked all over the book for the following described events and cannot find anything relating to them, they seem to me manufactured.

1. Any discussion of the creation of troops in 1918 with the names, 'anti-retreat' 'blocking' in English or the proposed Russian originals.
2. Any discussion of the Cheka having blocking duties
3. Any mention of Tukhachevsky before his debut, according to the book, in 1921 to put down the Tambov Rebellion, including orders to use blocking detachments. He was given a "more than 50,000 regular troops, three armored trains, three armored units, several mobile machine gun units, about seventy field guns, hundreds of machine guns, and an aircraft unit" (Chapter 6, Peasant Predators)
4. Trotsky's December 1918 order, or any of the quoted phrase. A search of this quote will show you only this page and people copying it.

There is one mentioning in the book of 'blocking units', and that is in reference to how Lenin described 'retreat' in the context of the New Economic Policy as being an organized retreat, and mentioning that Trotsky had, with Lenin's approval, applied blocking units to prevent troops from retreating. However, the sourcing on this is also not provided in Volkogonov's work, as he cites Lenin's quote regarding the NEP and the seizure of Basmachi chieftans for some unknown reason.

The work itself is rather flawed in some sections, and I think that either proper sourcing should be found for these claims of Trotsky's usage in the Russian State Archive of Socio-Political History. This is a well known tidbit that people repeat, and I'm sure there must be some sourcing, but this is not it, and I am not near Harvard to go and look through the archive's microfilm reels.

Transient Phantasm (talk) 22:02, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Russo-Ukrainian war

There are two citations for the use of blocking units in Ukraine, but they both cite unsourced statements from Ukrainian online news. They additionally claim that blocking units are killing wounded Russians, which is absurd. You need better proof before making inflammatory claims about an ongoing war. At the very least you need to edit the page to indicate that this is an unverified claim. 2601:4C0:8002:B70:6C8E:73FB:5F73:A32E (talk) 16:39, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Kavkaz Realities is not Ukrainian online news. Or do you expect to see such news on Russia Today? Russia claims this is not a war, so it will not say "we were using barrier troops provided by Ramzan Kadyrov" 195.72.144.142 (talk) 07:35, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Ukrainian Ground Forces

On December 31, 2023 Hindustan Times published video footage taken from a Russian kamikaze drone showing Ukrainian Anti-Retreat forces firing on Ukrainian soldiers attempting to flee the front lines. 174.250.210.252 (talk) 20:43, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

WP:REDFLAG. Link to soources please? –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:25, 12 January 2024 (UTC)