Talk:Battery regenerator

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Comment[edit]

This page and its corresponding section on the battery charger page should be nominated for deletion. The sources cited are not proper sources. It contains a lot of pseudo-scientific terms even a layman is able to recognize are gibberish such as "lead plates resonating" and in fact appears to be a form of advertising for untested and unorthodox battery chargers. One hint is that it was not created until December 2013 which given that Lead Acid batteries are nearly 200 years old, it's odd that up until December 2013 nobody had made an article about this form of magic battery charging.

Notable, but probably pseudo-science[edit]

I came here trying to find out more "hard fact" type info, even thinking of creating a page if none existed. So I think it is worth retaining an article about this subject, it is a "thing", and is quite popular (whether it works or not). Otherwise I generally agree with the unsigned comment above. I know these devices as desulphators / desulfators, which (I believe) is the more popular term, especially for the high-frequency type of device described in the article. I don't think anybody claims to know of a way to regenerate a battery that has failed due to corrosion or some other mechanical failure mode, so the article title may have been chosen to sanitise the technique's fringe science roots, to put it bluntly. As far as I know, high frequency desulphators don't work, or at least haven't been shown to work universally. Which is a shame. The description is generally accurate enough; what they attempt to achieve is cause the plates to mechanically ring at an acoustic resonance. Some claim the devices attempt to have the lead sulphate crystals piezoelectrically resonate, which is a different process. It is never entirely clear. In the mainstream battery world, light sulphation is dissolved or dislodged through equalisation charging (overcharging for a while, then topping up water if needed). There is also evidence (and conventional literature) around somewhere showing significant benefits of pulse charging, but where the pulse length is around a second (to allow for gas recombination), none of the MHz stuff. As it stands, the article sounds authoritative that the technique not only works, but is well understood, both of which appear to be generally unsupportable. --Adx (talk) 10:50, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I can confirm the technique seems to work, having actually tried it (definitely OR!). I did this on a car battery earmarked for this test 10 years ago after it sat discharged and would no longer charge. 10 years later it was not far off open circuit (<1A at 60V) and had puffed up a little. On opening some bungs to add water (unnecessary), the plates looked unexpectedly normal. I applied short pulses of around 100A and 200V at an average of around 10Hz for a total of about 8 hours over a few days. After this, the battery almost looks capable of accepting useful charge, easily current limiting at 5A at normal charge voltage. Note I can't expect it to end up "repaired", the test is just proof of concept and summary to show the technique is plausible (the "hard fact" I refer to above). There are more references available these days from people who have documented similar tests, but few to no academic sources, so unfortunately this article will remain thinly sourced, with unsubstantiated and perhaps fanciful explanation of the mechanism. It's not awfully surprising that it might work because high voltages are a good way to puncture nonconductive films, which at first thought is exactly what has to exist in a battery which appears to have grown internal insulation. But surprising that it sort of works and charges from this very dead state. Adx (talk) 00:24, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Check calculation[edit]

Also, someone should check this statement: "Each complete reaction produces about 2.11V. A typical 12V battery consists of six individual "cells" wired together in a single box, producing 13.2V when fully charged." 2.11 × 6 ≠ 13.2 98.185.227.75 (talk) 03:11, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sulphate does not go into solution[edit]

Lead sulphate is not soluble in sulphuric acid, it deposits on the plates as soft lead sulphate. Over time this will harden into hard lead sulphate, which can no longer react. This is the process known as "sulphation", and is the reason why lead acid batteries fail after a time. There is no hope of a "desulphator" putting the lead sulphate back into solution, because lead sulphate is insoluble. 104.172.216.137 (talk) 23:33, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a chemical or structural difference between soft lead sulpate and hard lead sulphate ? - Rod57 (talk) 23:49, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Resonant Plates[edit]

I edited the pseudo science about "resonant plates". There is a self resonant frequency for any metal structure, even a battery, but it has no effect on the electrochemical processes at work. There is no point in driving it with RF at the resonant, or any other, frequency. Also the acoustic resonant frequency is completely different from the RF resonant frequency.104.172.216.137 (talk) 21:32, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Will a Battery Desulfator (Regenerator) Recover or Extend the Life of My Lead Acid Batteries?[edit]

Simple question complicated answer.

I will try to answer as succinctly as possible.

Sulphate crystal build up leads to over 70% of premature failure of lead acid batteries. However all batteries wear out over time and no device can stop that happening.

Over the last 30 years or so battery manufactures have made great strides in combatting sulphate build up and improving the life span of their batteries, and in ideal circumstances, proper maintenance and correct charging, sulphation should not be a problem. However we do not live in a perfect world and sulphate build up remains by far the major cause of battery failure.

Controlled overcharge or equalisation charge has always been a way to keep lead acid batteries in good condition. The key to this method is that it should be used sparingly and always CONTROLLED.

Around 25 years ago a simple device that created high voltage pulse sent to the battery was developed, called a pulse generator or battery desulfator. This, in practice, created an uncontrolled overcharge, so over time these high voltage pulses damaged the battery plates. This negated the positive effect. They provide a Short-term solution, but long-term damage.

At the same time alternative solution were considered and experimentation showed that if a frequency pulse was sent to the battery it could break down the sulphate build up if the correct frequency could be achieved, however different frequencies were required for different sizes of crystal that built up on the plates. So the devices using the single frequency method are hit and miss, some work some worthless.

What was needed was a device that would work over a range of frequencies, voltages and size of battery. Until the last few years building this type of device was very expensive (in excess of $2,000) and large (the size of an old style video player). Recent dramatic drops in the size and cost of components has allowed companies to produce small reasonable prices products able to clean the plates of batteries.

A small number of manufactures around the world now produce products that can clean the plates of old batteries and stop the sulphate build-up on new batteries, so recovering them or keeping new batteries clear of the build-up. In effect recovering many old batteries and extend the life of any battery that is not charged or maintained in the correct way. This is ALL they do and is the only thing responsible manufactures claim that their desulfators can do, they cannot recover batteries with any internal damage, shorted cells or AGM batteries that have dried out.

A couple of the better known desulphator manufacturers offer money back guarantees valid for 60 to 90 days, which allows buyers ample time to see if the product works for them, and if it does not, return it for refund.

In conclusion modern multi frequency desulfators are not a magic bullet that will repair all faulty batteries, but they can significantly extend the life of your lead acid batteries, and recover a large proportion of batteries that are sulphated and would otherwise be scrapped. This will greatly reduce replacement battery costs, which is not insignificant on applications like solar storage batteries, ride on golf carts, fork trucks, large boats and motor homes.

The page may have some drawbacks but I feel it should be left as is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C0:A4C:5F01:A045:E4B5:59EB:3D05 (talk) 16:48, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

here is some science on the subject[edit]

Hi, this link would be in my references if I knew how to add them. Someone please pick through this article and add. Thanks batteryuniversity . com /learn/article/sulfation_and_how_to_prevent_it

wow, it came up as a blacklist! Sounds a bit harsh. Are the regulators blacklisting this guy? cheers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.108.171.184 (talk) 03:41, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Recommendation for rewrite[edit]

There seems to be a ton of pseudoscience, original research, unsupported claims, and generalized assumptions in this article. There are very few credible in line references and citations, and the tone is more like someone's eighth grade essay than an encyclopedic article. This article needs to be rewritten by someone willing to do it right. Chanceober (talk) 20:15, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]