Talk:Battle of Dunaverty

Descended

Niall, 10th Duke of Argyll opined that it was quite possible that the Macleas descended from Anrothan the O’Neill prince who married a Princess of Dalriada, inheriting her lands of Cowal and Knapdale. The old Argyll families of Lamont, MacSorley, MacEwen of Otter, MacSweeney, McCorquodale, Maclachlan, Macmillan and the MacNeills of both Gigha and Barra are all supposed to descend from Aedh Alain. This hypothesis has become the perceived wisdom and quite possible has become read as highly likely or even fact. There is no doubt that MacLea derives from MacDunshleibe as there are numerous deeds that show the evolution. However, the argument for the MacLea descent from Anrothan is based on the fact that a Dunsleve existed in Cowal in the 1200s, and that the name Molmore used in the 1544 Charter was often used by MacSweens. A very flimsy case!

The case against this theory is this:
1. Dunshleibe ua Anradhan was an O’Neill - a tribe at war with the Ulidians, the tribal group of St Moluag.
2. Dunshleibe ua Anradhan married into the Cenél nGabráin. Given the antipathy between them and the Cenél Loairn, I cannot see how someone of the Cenél nGabráin could become the Coarb of St Moluag the patron saint of the Cenél Loairn.
3. Under Brehon law the succession should have gone to someone of the Fine Erluma, (Tribe of the Saint) or the Fine Grin (Tribe of the Land). Anrothan was not from either tribe so would not be eligible to be Coarb of St Moluag.
4. Anrothan would have O’Neill DNA – and although he married a Princess of the Royal House of Dalriada the Y chromosome is passed down the male line and his descendents would have the O’Neill DNA – not Dalriadic DNA as in the Livingstones of Bachuil.

Dunshleibe Ua Eochadha - 1137 According to Byrne the Ulaid rigdamnai [persons eligible to be king] alone used the name Mac Duinnshleibhe “So for instance when after 1137 the Dal Fiatach kingship was confined to the descendants of Donn Sleibe Mac Eochada (slain in 1091), the rigdamnai set themselves apart from the rest of the family by using the name Mac Duinnshleibhe (Donleavy)."
It seems as though Ruaidhri Mac Duinnsleibhe was the last king of Ulidia dying at the end of the twelfth century. Rory, son of Dunsleve, is number 54 on O'Hart's roll of the kings of Ulidia and described as "the last king of Ulidia, and its fifty-fourth king since the advent of St. Patrick to Ireland."
In Irish Pedigrees – The Stem of the Dunlevy family, Princes of Ulidia, O'Hart says “Tuirmach Teamrach, the 81st Monarch of Ireland had a son named Fiach Fear mara, who was ancestor of the Kings of Argyle and Dalriada, in Scotland: this Fiach was also the ancestor of MacDunshleibe and O’Dunsleibhe, anglicised … Livingstone….”
According to Dr O’Donovan, descendants of this family (of Cu-Uladh, the son of the last MacDunshleibe King of Ulidia), soon after the English invasion of Ireland, passed into Scotland, where they changed their name.”
The argument for our descent from Donn Sleibe Mac Eochada is based on much stronger evidence:
1. Since 1137 the name Mac Duinnshleibhe was reserved for the rigdamnai of Ulaid.
2. The Ui Echach Coba and the Dál nAraide descend from Fiacha Araide, ancestor of St Moluag.
3. Therefore the Mac Duinnshleibhe were of both the Fine Erluma (Tribe of the Saint) and the Fine Grin (Tribe of the Land) so VERY eligible to be Coarbs of St Moluag.
4. Fiach Fear mara was ancestor of the Kings of Argyle and Dalriada and also the ancestor of MacDunshleibe anglicised Livingstone. According to Dr O’Donovan, descendants of the last MacDunshleibe King of Ulidia soon after the English invasion of Ireland, passed into Scotland, where they changed their name.
5. A DNA project undertaken by Trinity College Dublin, has found that most Mac Dunshleibhe derived surnames such as Dunleavy have the DNA signature associated with the Ui Neill, Anrothan’s line. But there are a few Dunleavy families whose DNA is similar to the Bachuil line which is believed to be the line of the ancient kings.
Category:Wars of the Three Kingdoms articles needing attention to coverage and accuracy Bachuil 11:23, 14 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Young Bachuil (talk • contribs)

The distinction made towards the end of the article between Scots and Irish would not have been understood in the 17th century. The term 'Irish' was used widely among Lowland Scots to describe those who spoke Irish - what would now be called Gaelic. Therefore the defenders of Dunaverty would have been regarded as 'Irish' and righteously extirpated as vermin by the Godly.

Peter R Hastings 08:16, 2 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by P R Hastings (talk • contribs)