Talk:Battle of St. Quentin (1557)

Spanish?

Is it really correct to talk of a 'Spanish' army taking part in the battle?. As I understand it, only a minority of the soldiers were Spaniards, it was in fact the German horsemen who played the decisive part in the battle. Inchiquin (talk) 06:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

The battle was very much a combined arms (infantry and cavalry) operation by both sides - but the Habsburg side did it much better, indeed this was one of the advantages of [Spanish Habsburg] forces in the 16th century. The Spanish side was definitely a mixed formation that was typical of the times, with Low Country, Spanish, German and English soldiers. Spanish generals - Alonso de Cáceres led Spanish and German troops on the right, Julián Romero led Spanish, Burgundian and English in the centre, and on the left was the famous Spanish tercio of Alonso de Navarrete. The cavalry (led by the Duke of Egmont) was Flemish. King Philip II of Spain was nominally the overall commmander, but he was smart enough to leave the real commmand to a real soldier, his cousin, the Duke of Savoy. The greatest mistake of Montmorency was to underestimate the Duke of Savoy's military skills (probably emboldened by his numerical superiority) - his attempt to cross the river and reinforce forces in St Quentin was devastatingly dealt with by Spanish arquebusiers that spotted the danger and quickly manouevered into position to stop such a move - just 300 French soldiers made it (just an instance of the quick thinking and professionalism that made the Spanish famous in their day). After that initial disaster everything went downhill for the French; the Habsburg forces took control of the narrow bridge over the Somne and built a parallel pontoon bridge so as to allow them to attack the main French forces until finally Montmorency's forces had been pushed back into the forest where, while being hit from the rear by Egmont's horse, which had driven off the French horse (no mean feat given the reputation of the gendarmes) were met by a full frontal assualt by the Spanish, Low Country, German and English infantry - producing a massacre. By the way, there were also many Germans in the French army.

England?

Why so much talking about England in the article? England had little to do with this battle. The article was probably written by an Englishman. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.82.223.109 (talk) 01:06, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Commenting 9 years on - I was baffled there is a footnote about England entering the war earlier in the summer but nothing in the article connecting the battle with England. English volunteer troops were present at the battle, as Lord Herbert of Cherbury recalled in later years meeting Anne de Montmorency and being told the latter remembered 'my [Herbert's] grandfather at St Quentin". There deserves therefore to be some mention of the English contribution. These contingents would have been in sizeable groups under their own officers. It was fairly commonplace for major powers to hire troops from smaller countries whose alliance they could count on.Cloptonson (talk) 10:16, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Duke of Savoy

Why did the Duchy of Savoy got deleted off the page, when the main leader was the Duke of Savoy? Grav-Leo02 (talk) 13:28, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

@Grav-Leo02: What was the strength of the Savoyard forces in this battle? I find it odd that the duchy was able to provide troops for this battle against France knowing that it was under the control of France at the time...but I might be wrong and always willing to learn new stuff. --Dom from Paris (talk) 13:54, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

::You're in part right, the major part of the Duchy was occupied by the French, but important strongholds like Cuneo and cities near the Lombard border were still resisting the french forces, i know that the army that entered into France was formed by german and italian mercenaries, spanish soldiers and savoyard units were supposed to be there. I'm going to add sources for the participation of the Duchy in the battle — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grav-Leo02 (talk • contribs) 14:05, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

So you are adding things to the article without having the details and sources? This is against policy because everything here has to be WP:VERIFIABLE. I would ask you to autorevert until you do have the sources. --Dom from Paris (talk) 14:16, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

@Grav-Leo02: as per WP:NONENG please provide an extract of the source that you have provided with the figures for the Savoyard forces. Dom from Paris (talk) 15:28, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Striking through earlier edits of another sock of the same masteer. Doug Weller talk 14:52, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

What is happening with this article?

I see it has a recent history of edit warring and sock-puppetry by a user who is trying to systematically delete any reference to the Spanish empire from the article. This is at the least bizarre.Harlyn35 (talk) 13:09, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

I find it very interesting that a "new user", that has been here since Sept 2019, knows so much about the sockpuppetry concerning this article. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:48, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

::Excuse me Kansas Bear? Are you accusing me of anything? I have never seen this article until now in my life. I do notice you have been involved in edit warring for a long time here, I assume with the use of multiple socks? What is your beef with this topic anyways? Its ridiculous. Why vandalize an article in such a surreal way? Explain to me what your logic is... I can't imagine more than one person active on wikipedia trying to deface this article in this way. Harlyn35 (talk) 11:32, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

• Your accusation, ".. I assume with the use of multiple socks?"

Then I strongly suggest you file a sockpuppet investigation.

Quite honestly, I have never been happy with the prose of this article.

Your edit summary,

• "the breakdown of the ethnicity of the soldiers are not important for the lead. It was a battle in a confrontation between Hapbsurg Spain and France."

Actually, if a reliable source states how the ethnic make up of the army was important then it is important. This information is relevant and technically is not in the lead, but in note form and referenced by Kamen and Parker. Regardless, I have moved the note to the body of the article

What about this for the lead,

• "The Battle of Saint-Quentin of 1557, was a decisive engagement during the Italian War of 1551–1559 between the Kingdom of France and the Habsburg empire at Saint-Quentin in Picardy. A Habsburg Spanish force under Duke Emmanuel Philibert of Savoy defeated a French army under the command of Duke Louis Gonzaga and Duke Anne de Montmorency."

Thoughts? --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:53, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Struck through sock edits, removed one with no reply.

Should Savoy be included as belligerent when it was just their Duke who Participated?

It seems that no Savoyard troops participated in the battle so isn't it misleading to include them? DavidDijkgraaf (talk) 12:33, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Did no Savoyard troops fight here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.16.187 (talk) 02:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)