Talk:Big Thunder Mountain Railroad/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Accidents

I'm aware of a second accident on BTMR - I don't have enough information to post an edit on it.

"Trivia"

I really feel that the death should be taken out of the "trivia" section and be given its own "deaths" section, along with the second BTMR injury(death?). Putting the death under the guise of trivial fact is insulting. Anyone willing do it before me feel free. Lue3378 09:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed - LordBleen 00:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

In addition, the trivia section seems to have NPOV issues.

^^ Agreed. This section sounds pretty outrageous: "A guest was killed on the Disneyland incarnation in 2003, purportedly as a result of neglecting ride maintenance. The blame was passed to Paul Pressler, the Disneyland Resort head of the Walt Disney Parks and Resorts division at the time, who was notorious for enforcing tough budget cuts."

I remember when that happened, yes, someone died on the ride. Supposedly it was because of poor maintenance, the CMs couldn't stop the train even though they felt something was wrong because of policy. I'll add a couple of references. Paul Pressler is notorious for his budget cuts, don't know if its his fault, but I wouldn't put it past him. --blm07 22:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the accident should be an article. It made the headline news afterall. How many derailed rollercoaster "incidents" killing a passenger have there been? --Lamrock 16:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

WDW Image Change

I changed the last image of the Walt Disney World version of BTMR because the original image was too panned out to see anything. Now, you can see the train more visually and can make out beter scenery than the last one. 01kkk 23:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Blog article

A link I submited was rejected by a bot. I think it is relevant to this article as bringing more information to the general differences of the worldwild versions of the attraction. I'm hereby submiting this link. Please be kind enough to read and accept it shall you consider it valuable to the article. here it is http://5kingdoms.blogspot.com/2008/05/4-big-thunder-mountain.html

Thank you for your time Regisphilibertwiki (talk) 19:52, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see WP:EL and WP:NN as to why this was rejected. Tiggerjay (talk) 21:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

"Statistics"

I'm trying to figure out why the Statistics section is so named. Where I come from statistics are usually made of numbers. Is there a better heading for this section?--→ $JJOlsen$ 04:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I can explain. This section used to contain info such as ride length, time, etc for each incarnation of the attraction. I moved all that info into the infoboxes (see revision history from late October/early November 2008), but the information still under that section heading didn't really have a place in the infoboxes. I will re-name the section and add a {{trivia}} tag to flag it for proper disposition as such. KuyaBriBri^Talk 17:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

On second look (5 minutes later), I have deleted this section outright. Neither remaining "statistic" was really encyclopedic in content. The first was fansite information and the second one was explicitly a rumor. KuyaBriBri^Talk 17:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Mine Train Thru Nature's Wonderland

Why is there not a wiki page on this extinct ride? (Or is there one, and I've mis-spelled)?--TimothyJacobson (talk) 12:39, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

See List of past Disneyland attractions#Frontierland. If you think you have enough information to create a separate article on Mine Train, I say go for it. If you would like to discuss this further, please use my talk page. KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:42, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Chainsaw

According to my Dad who went on BTM in the early 80s, one of the effects was a chainsaw which almost took the riders heads off, but swerved at the last minute. Is he accurate? If so, why was it removed? I'd be interested in more details, so I can add it to the wiki page?--TimothyJacobson (talk) 12:39, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I see a couple of problems with that, the biggest being whether it is verifiable. Even if it was verifiable, there is also the issue that "Wikipedia is not a directory of everything that exists or has existed", and is also not a collection of trivia. That being said, I'm hoping that someone from WikiProject Roller Coasters or WikiProject Disneyland still monitors this talk page and can chime in. KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Banksy

Is it worth mentioning in the article the "Banksy" that was at BTM in California for a couple of hours, dressed as a Guantanamo Bay detainee?--TimothyJacobson (talk) 12:41, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Sounds to me like trivia and doesn't belong. If you look at the page history there has been other non-notable trivia on here that was deleted. See also WP:TRIVIA. KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:46, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Dallas McKennon

Why is he not mentioned here? And where might I add him? Tymime (talk) 18:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

additional animals in the Disneyland version

I have added some additional bit of info to the Disneyland section since I can clearly confirm several other animals (aside from the goat) appear in this ride (I was on it several times during spring break and identified these). trainfan01 18:46, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

WDW Big Thunder Mountain soft opening date

The article credits September 23, 1980 as the soft opening date. On September 27, 2010, however, the ride celebrated its 30th anniversary of the first dispatch of a train (at precisely 1:37 p.m.) with a short ceremony and small gifts for the riders of the train that was dispatched at 1:37 p.m. on 9/27/2010. Perhaps the September 23 date is a soft opening for cast member (employee) preview, and September 27 for guests? Does someone have more definite information? I work at Big Thunder and do not know this detail. (My coordinators at the ride agree that the "ribbon cutting" and official grand opening was in November.) Jnmwiki (talk) 15:58, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

External Link Change

The external link to DLDHistory.com is: http://www.dldhistory.com/2k7deainj.asp?Tab=Disneyland&Page=21&Ident=54&MenuLink=5 which forwards to: http://www.dldhistory.com/2k9deainj.asp?Page=7&Ident=54 the current link in the article will become unavailable on 1/1/2012 the new link will be: http://www.dldhistory.com/2k11deainj.asp?Page=7&Ident=2140 i am unsure if i am the one that sure edit this?Dldhistory (talk) 22:50, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Davy Jones

The tunnel mentioned in the WDW points to the character from the Pirates movies, but this can't be right. The ride was made before the movies. One website says that it was actually a tribute to Davy Jones (musician) and my guess is that it could be talking about Davy Jones' Locker. --blm07 05:04, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Certainly so. Powers ^T 18:15, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The history section for the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad claims that The Pirates of the Carribean ride was built in 1973. That is impossible because I have been to Disneyland only once in 1969 and I rode it then. How can that be? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.94.182.5 (talk) 16:21, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean attraction dates to 1967 IIRC. Magic Kingdom's version was added in 1973, two years after the park first opened. So not impossible, depending on which version was being discussed where that phrase appears. --McDoob AU93 14:09, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Big Thunder Disneyland status

While the common vernacular around Disney is that attractions are "being refurbished" when they are, in fact, being completely redone, RCDB lists the attraction as being closed, much as their version of Space Mountain was closed in 2003 and re-opened in 2005, even though the track profile was basically the same. For purposes of roller coaster articles on Wikipedia, RCDB is considered a reliable source, and that site indicates that the ride has been closed and will reopen in new form. Since the entire track is being replaced, I believe, that would match the reconstruction of Space Mountain, which also resulted in the closure of the original ride. --McDoob AU93 14:14, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

RCDb.com says it's defunct. Defunct and closed can be two whole different things. As for comparing the refurbishment to Space Mountain, I believe that is considered original research unless a reliable source says that.Wackyike (talk) 01:01, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I think RCDB.com has been changing recently. On RCDB.com there is one page for the closed ride and one for the one to be opened whose current status is under construction.Sapiens scriptor (talk) 09:19, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Does that mean that they need two different sections on the article?Wackyike (talk) 23:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

To clarify, I'm not suggesting that we mention in the article the potential parallel between this attraction's redevelopment and that of Space Mountain; Wackyire is correct that no known source has made that connection. The point I was making was that there was apparently some changes suggesting that the ride was only being refurbished, not being entirely redone as RCDB is indicating.

As to how that would be included in the article, there would need to be some mention of the differences when reliable sources indicate exactly what has changed. That could be something as simple along the lines of "The original version closed in 2013. Over the next several months, the park removed all the old track and replaced it with new track, along with making other improvements to the attraction site. The new version opened in 2014".

--McDoob AU93 23:27, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

As for now, should we just leave it as defunct for Disneyland then?Wackyike (talk) 01:56, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Per RCDB, it is closed. But of course we cannot ignore the fact that it is going to reopen very soon. So we may need to tweak the infobox to reflect two different variants of the Disneyland attraction. --McDoob AU93 01:59, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

There are plenty of reliable sources that indicate it is under refurbishment. RCDB does not have a status for under refurbishment. See DIS Board, Disney's own site, Screamscape, or Anaheim.com to name a few.—JlACEer (talk) 19:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I thought we were going to tweak the info box. Remember, RCDB is reliable.Wackyike (talk) 20:37, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

A reliable source is not necessarily a definitive source. RCDB may be the favored source for a lot of amusement park Wikipedians, but it has its limitations. The site does not have a classification for under refurbishment, it either has a coaster as operating or defunct. We don't have to be so restrictive on Wikipedia. There s clearly enough evidence to show that the ride is only temporarily closed while it is being refurbished. Thus the change to under refurbishment. I don't think we can classify this refurbishment the same as the Space Mountain rebuild. That was a complete removal of the ride and a brand new installation. All the sources for BTMRR indicate that just the track was replaced. I haven't seen a source mention that the entire structure was removed. Track replacements happen quite frequently on wood coasters, although I will admit that an entire steel track replacement is very rare. Still I don't think that constitutes a new ride or a the need for a new wiki page.—JlACEer (talk) 01:50, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

RCDB also has SBNO, which it has used in the past for rides receiving major modifications that require extensive closures but don't change the ride profile or the track itself, such as X2. Disney coasters do go down for refurbishment all the time, and RCDB's status never changes from "Operating". Its own description has stated that maintenance closures and off-season periods do not change a ride from "Operating" to "SBNO" or "Defunct" (formerly "Operated"). Defunct means the ride, in that form, is never going to re-open ... for example Space Mountain Disneyland prior to 2003 and, potentially, Big Thunder. Space Mountain Florida went down for an extended closure in 2009 that included (IIRC) a lot of track replacement, but it never changed to SBNO or to Defunct during that period. I agree that RCDB is not infallible, but we have to weigh its RS status against Disney's marketing-speak and fan-written blogs appropriately. --McDoob AU93 17:52, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Ah yes, I forgot about SBNO, which given the duration might have qualified in this case. So what are you suggesting? Do we want to make this a new ride, or just a refurbishment? I wish I had more information on exactly what was replaced — just the rails, entire track, or entire track and supports. This one is certainly a unusual case.—JlACEer (talk) 18:03, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Original research tag

Recent edits to the ride description areas, while well-intentioned, lack references and inline citations. Unless suitable references can found, some of this content may need to be removed.—JlACEer (talk) 14:45, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Much of it has just been removed. GeorgeLouis (talk) 21:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

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I just removed a so-called "Official Link" purporting to show a compilation of video footage of the ride from a passenger's POV. The link led to a Youtube account that has been deleted due to "numerous copyright violation notifications." 75.101.104.17 (talk) 05:05, 22 July 2018 (UTC)