Talk:Bihar/Archive 1

Yes, Bihar the Land of Buddha

Hi everyone ... For last few days, I have been editing Bihar and reorganising texts and sections. Let us come closer and continue to contribute and improve this article.--Bhadani 09:35, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bihar, an independent article

I find that the article Bihar has been edited by some one and changed to Bihar (India), and other articles with the same name has also been referred there. I feel this is not a wise step. The matter requires assistance and discussions so that the article Bihar gets its former name. Please try to do something.

The edits of 17 April 2005 by User:Hottentot has been reverted by me as already there was a section in the article Bihar – Bihar (disambiguation) and as such there was no justifiable reason to change the main character by the name Bihar. The edits regarding Bihar by Hottentot are being placed in the section Bihar (disambiguation) . Here, it is also pertinent to note that though wikipedia sets its own standard, but even in Enclopaedia Britannica Bihar has been separately dealt with, and in my humble opinion the case with wikipedia should not be different. The article Bihar represents a state of India and 100 million people reside in Bihar and Bihar has a recorded history of 2500 years. In any case, the position of Bihar as a separate article was already accepted by the community of wikipedians as the legend Bihar (disambiguation) was there along with the main article of Bihar.

I trust that the position has been clarified.--Bhadani 04:26, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My message to User:Hottentot

Hello everyone. I am giving below a message which I have posted on the Talk page of User:Hottentot

QUOTE My dear sir, why you are reverting my edits of Bihar? Please be considerate.

The edits of 17 April 2005 by you were reverted by me as already there was a section in the article Bihar – Bihar (disambiguation) and as such there was no justifiable reason to change the main character by the name Bihar. The edits by you shall be placed in the section Bihar (disambiguation) . Here, it is also pertinent to note that though wikipedia sets its own standard, but even in Enclopaedia Britannica Bihar has been separately dealt with, and in my humble opinion the case with wikipedia should not be different. The article Bihar represents a state of India and 100 million people reside in Bihar and Bihar has a recorded history of 2500 years. In any case, the position of Bihar as a separate article was already accepted by the community of wikipedians as the legend Bihar (disambiguation) was there along with the main article of Bihar.

I trust that the position has been clarified. In case, you donot agree, you are most welcome to discuss the matter further.--Bhadani 04:32, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)Unquote

This page has again been reverted by User:Hottentot. Ok, I understand his feelings, but let all wikipedians should come closer to resolve this issue. With thanks ...--Bhadani 06:06, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My response

Mr. Bhadani,

My appologies for not explaining my edits. I just found out that Bihar around 1910/1914 had a population of 582,132 people, a lot less than the Bihar of India. So yes, I suppose that you are correct on the fact that Bihar in India is more prominent and more known (and also has more people) than the historical county of Hungary, also called Bihar, which no longer exists. (It is divided between Hungary & Romania) So I guess you can let Bihar in India be the main page if you want.

Sincerely, User:Hottentot — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hottentot (talk • contribs) 06:35, 17 April 2005 (UTC)

Yes dear User:Hottentot, Thank you

I find all wiki users are very considerate, as the above message indicate. I have sent my reply to "MR Hottentot" which I am quoting below: Quote Thanks Yes, what I should call you ... I donot know your name, anyway dear, I saw your kind message on the Bihar Talk Page. Your response is very balanced. However, let the matter rest for some time, as I had appealed to some more Users ... who have been using wikipedia for a period longer than me and you. In any case, I thank you for your kind response. I am searching the materials about "Bihar County" and try to contribute positively as soon as possible. Let all should come closer and build a great wikipedia --Bhadani 07:59, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)Unquote--Bhadani 07:59, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Corruption

Bihar is particularily noted for its political corruption, partly because of Laloo Prasad Yadav. Something about that is worth mentioning in the article. --GatesPlusPlus 13:11, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

And also because of Sardar Buta Singh I think. I could be wrong. --Hottentot

New Table

I'm trying to make a new table that looks like most of the other ones in the different Indian state articles, but it's missing a lot of information. Here's what I have so far. Please add on to this and help make it complete. --Hottentot — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hottentot (talk • contribs) 06:12, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

{{India state infobox|
state_name=Bihar |
image_map= IndiaBihar.png |
capital=Patna |
latd = ?|longd=?|
largest_city=Patna|
abbreviation=IN-BR |
official_languages=?|
legislature_type=? |
legislature_strength=? |
governor_name=Sardar Buta Singh |
chief_minister=Presidents Rule |
established_date=[[1947]] |
area=94,163 |
area_rank=? |
area_magnitude=? |
population_year=2001 |
population=82,878,796 |
population_rank=3rd |
population_density=880 |
districts=37 |
seal=[[]]|
footnotes = | 
}}

bihar in devanagari script

the name 'bihar' in devanagari script appears to be incorrectly spelt, it is rendered as "Bahir" in my browser (firefox 1.0.4). Doldrums 12:39, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I think Unicode has a problem putting the 'nagari short "i" character in front of an associated consonant. Of course it should go in front of the consonant, but Unicode puts it after. There may be a patch you can download to fix this. LADave (talk) 19:32, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

edit questions

Just finished a full copyedit. How do I get rid of that "seal" and "footnotes" in the "Bihar" box? I don't see anything about them when I use "edit this page". If it's part of some bigger states-of-India project, apologies, but until clicking on them doesn't get all sort of threatening "copyright violation" and "your article will be deleted" messages it seems to me best simply to omit them.

--Kessler 01:55, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Rollback

I have rolled back as the information removed by editor User talk:DogsBreakfast as a POV was plaintly unwarrantted. Perhaps, he is very new to the topic of Bihar. Please see my comments of date on his talk page. --Bhadani 15:08, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Lawless

I think that Bihar's lawlesness is well known by many Indians. I realise that this is an unfortunate fact that many would rather not mention. But in my opinion it is an important fact and we should mention it, we can at least warn tourists who want to visit this state to be alert because this is no "ordinary" Indian State. Comments? Mieciu K 21:34, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Agree. It's an encyclopedia article. However bad it might seem, the lawlessness is a fact and has to be mentioned. The phrase "Bihar, India's most lawless state" is used even in international media. Not mentioning it here will not change that description. It will only make this article incomplete or inaccurate.

While this is an encyclopaedia and it has to reflect truth as it exists, I am not sure if asserting that Bihar is the most lawless state is as undeniable truth as is made out to be. The subjective assertion above appears with a BBC article of 2004 giving statistics of crime of 5,000 homicides and 12,000 other incidents of rioting and abduction per year. Does that make it the most lawless place given the size of Bihar and the same statistic viewed as a percent?

The "agreed" statement of the anonymous user wtih unnamed statements from international press does not make it a statement of fact either.

To me, this only appears an attempt to perpetuate a stereotype which is dubious, questionable and objectionable. There are many related issues and qualifiers that would have to be mentioned if this has to remain here - and it would become a discussion on the law and order situation of Bihar rather than an article on Bihar.

I am deleting it as an encyclopaedia is not a place to denigrate a place nor to perpetuate stereotypes that serve the vested interests of some people. Nor for that matter a place for travel advisory.

I tried to go to the page of the user Mieciu K. I would encourage him to list all the places wtih an unsavoury past where a similar denigrating statement has been put in the first wiki paragraph itself. I am afraid that would mean all the places in the world for for I dont believe any place with a history can be without any unsavoury past. Once he has prominently displayed this in all other places, he can then moralise to have his "truth" to be put on the Bihar page.

TV 11:56, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Let me quote William Dalrymple: "Whatever index of prosperity and development you choose, Bihar comes triumphantly at the bottom. It has the lowest literacy, the highest number of deaths in police custody, the worst roads, the highest crime, the fewest cinemas. Its per capita income is less than half the Indian average. Not long ago it even had a major famine. Not mentioning any of this is not encyclopedic. Jpatokal 12:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Dalrymple and a few others are known Bihar baiters whose writing should be taken in the right perspective. He has even denigrated the supreme sacrifice of the leader of the 1857 Mangal Pandey.

Actually, there's a factual inaccuracy in the quote above: these days, Bihar's per capita income is not half the Indian average, it's one fifth ($148 vs $997). Jpatokal (talk) 09:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Bihar

Bihar is also the name of a county in Hungary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.185.236.228 (talk • contribs) of 22.10.06

For that there is an article: Bihar (county), and the matter of having this page (Bihar) as an independent page was discussed about a year back. --Bhadani 04:49, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

more to add

Hi, I've been using this article a lot for a project which I'm doing and I've noticed that the topic of economy does not have that much information to it. Also under culture, there is not a section of about clothing. I think that if either of these topics were fixed, the article would be much better. If anyone feels up to it, these sections need a little help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mincus5 (talk • contribs) 20:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Poverty

Fact: Bihar is the poorest state in India. With a GNP/capita of $91/year, it's also one of the poorest places in the entire world, and understanding this is highly relevant to understanding anything about the place. This is an encyclopedia, not propaganda. Jpatokal 07:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I was just trying to point out that, even though the reader should know these things, isnt it alittle weighty to make that statement within the first few lines? either way, if you feel its really that important than keep it - however please dont think that i was trying to make propoganda, i just thought that it hit me alittle hard while i was reading it. Pirus 17:24, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I do think it's important (and far more important that, say, the random 'freedom fighters' who were born there). Britannica says the same thing a little more nicely: "It is one of India's least urbanized states, and most of its population engages in agriculture." Jpatokal 05:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Its alot better now...and yeah the freedome fighters thing may also be alittle bit prematurely placed in the article, if tahts what you wanted to say...but anyways i think its a much better intro now Pirus 01:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

External Links

Please do not delete external links just because you think or do not like those links. The link that I have included is totallty valid and enchances the Bihar page. The link that I have included is about Bihar and fits in well with the others. People visiting this page should have other resources at their fingertips. A group of so called India group do not have the moral right to police the internet. Do not behave like the USA.

Please see Wikipedia:External links. Your website is clearly commercial (Google AdSense). utcursch | talk 04:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

SDP

"Ministry of Statistics and Programme Implementation" here [1] gives the 2004-2005 as Rs. 57145 Crore or 571450 mil = Rs. 57.145 bn ~ US$ 57.145/40=US$ 1.43 bn in real GDP. I dont understand the figure $19 bn. Can we have some reference ? Jeroje 23:54, 16 August 2007 (UTC)jeroje

I would like to point out the mistake in your calculation as mentioned Rs.571450mil=Rs.571.45bn and not 57.145?? hence the real GDP as per statics(cited by you) will be USD 14.3 bn and not 1.43 bn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.224.109.24 (talk) 21:16, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

thanks, Jeroje 18:41, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

per capita $155 and pop 85 odd mil gives $12.8 bn. which almost matches my calculation above (note I took $1=40 Rs. which over estimates the $ amount ) Jeroje 02:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

do you mean to say $12.8 bn is same as $1.43bn as calculated by you??? did you applied same yard stick to other state GDP calculations??? and tried to comment on them??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.224.101.191 (talk) 20:57, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Please read WP:civil. What I meant by "thanks" to your comment is that I accept your point of 571.45bn against 57.145bn, which gives the GDP =14.3 bn. In the next post I did a similar calculation based on per capita figure which came out to be 12.8 bn which is almost same as 14.3 (+ or - possible approximation error ). Jeroje 00:44, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

possible spellchecker error

in the Politics section, should "the socialist movement tried to break the stranglehold of the status quoits under the leadership of Mahamaya Prasad Sinha" perhaps instead be "the socialist movement tried to break the stranglehold of the status quo under the leadership of Mahamaya Prasad Sinha"? David Woodward (talk) 02:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Patna appears to be mislocated on topmost map

When I look at the top-righthand map in this article (Image:India_Bihar_locator_map.svg) as it is embedded in this article, the red dot for the captial (Paṭnā) appears to be located somewhere between Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh. (I'm not even sure how the red dot is made to appear given that it does not appear to be directly located on the WP image itself :-) .) Is my software wonky? Thanks for any suggestions or help. - 24.136.229.74 (talk) 19:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Someone has edited the introduction without discussion.

Someone has edited the introduction with discussion and consent. I am reverting back. 122.169.82.181 (talk) 12:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I modeled the intro on the basis of the FA on the state of Karnataka. The intro must indentify the location of the state, give some indication about its unique cultural identity, briefly describe the people that live there and briefly discuss its political and economic situation. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 18:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

"I modeled the intro on the basis of the FA on the state of Karnataka." Introduction of Bihar need not be based on the model agreed upon by the editors editing that page. The economy part if any, has to be in the right section and not the introduction.

The current introduction correctly describes the multi ethnic cultural identity the people of Bihar. It's based on the consent of may editors.

Please do not restore to vandalism. The forum is open to discussion.

202.144.93.138 (talk) 06:37, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Give the editors time before they come to a common consent and make changes in the article. Till then I would request everyone not to make any edit in the article (as has been done by Fundamental metric tensor) and instead discuss their points here.

I would request the editors to use scholarly documents as references (books, genuine papers, official documents etc.) and not news cutting or similar sources.

202.144.93.138 (talk) 08:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree that FMT's version is considerably better than yours. His is encyclopedic, yours is a confusing attempt to proclaim Bihar's greatness while whitewashing the negatives. For example, in an article on Bihar, why do you mention that Patna is richer than the Indian average, and ignore that the rest of the state is much poorer? Jpatokal (talk) 09:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

1st of all let me make it clear that I haven't edited the introduction yet. It has been written by may editors. Lots of people know many things about Bihar, which are most of the time not based on any scholarly source and are unreliable. People tend to use media to discover Bihar, which is biased as understood by many people and social scientists . I shall refrain from making any ORIGINAL RESEARCH here and will give proper references in time to come when I edit the page, unlike most of the references which in the following edit of Fundamental metric tensor is based on daily news papers, which one should refrain from using for an encyclopedia.

"Since independence, Bihar experienced considerable upheavals in the form of caste and class conflict, which resulted in political instability. The state has lagged behind the other states in human [1] and economic development [2] although the state government claims its economy has grown rapidly in recent years[3]. The current state government has however made significant strides in improving governance[4]."

"Since independence, Bihar experienced considerable upheavals in the form of caste and class conflict, which resulted in political instability." - it's a MYTH. Was is since independence or since early 70s, or even before independence?

I am reverting back the article with a minor edit on Patna economy, till more genuine edits are done. More over Fundamental metric tensor's edit lacks many informations, which make Bihar historically and culturally rich. The informations are genuine for the introduction of a state whose very name Bihar comes from buddhist - Vihars. These informations are necessary to give anyone sufficient information about Bihar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.144.93.138 (talk) 10:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

You're not answering any of the objections raised by FMT or myself. Also, newspapers are considered reliable sources, while random websites like www.bihar.ws are not. Jpatokal (talk) 13:29, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Jpatokal says that news papers are considered to be reliable source for encyclopedia! I don't agree.

Wikipedia:Reliable sources: Material from mainstream news organizations is welcomed. Jpatokal (talk) 06:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

The issue raised by Jpatokal has already been answered - "why do you mention that Patna is richer than the Indian average, and ignore that the rest of the state is much poorer?" The section has been edited.

No, it hasn't. You're still claiming that Bihar "ranks 14 out of 28" by state GDP, which misleadingly suggests that it's in the middle of the pack by wealth, when it's actually at rock bottom. Jpatokal (talk) 06:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Jpatakal and Fundamental metric tensor are trying to spread their propaganda of Bihar baising. Manoj nav (talk) 13:39, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, yes, it's all in fact a conspiracy! Muahaha! Jpatokal (talk) 06:28, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Manoj nav, let me point out first of all that I am not trying to bash anybody. I merely added the things most notable about a sub-national entity, its location and size within the nation, its differences from the rest of the nation, its history (if notable) and its current situation. Your edits seem to highlight recent economic policies (without citation) that should anyway be in the Economy section. You also claim that many different ethnic groups have migrated to Bihar, again this should be in demographics, as the most notable difference between Biharis is religion and language. You claim Buddhism to be 'iconic' which violates WP:APT. Its not that I completely disagree with what you are saying but I just dont feel its a good enough intro for an article of this importance. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 12:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I have checked multipule Indian states sites and Wikipedia. They are not very differnt to the one written by Manoj. It is understandble that you (Jpatakl) want to correct none cited sources and clear the introduction - you can go through the other 28 states which have similar overviews (The India introduction is not much different). The introduction by Manoj highlights serval important aspects of Bihar that users should read before they go any further. Your introduction needs to either improve on the one by Manoj. Your ending is also inaccurate and cannot be justifed because you simply cite a source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.16.109 (talk) 13:54, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I have edited the introduction with references, and shall also try to improve various other sections of the article in days to come. I am currently doing some reading on Bihar.

Following books on Bihar is available at http://www.flipkart.com/ or rediff.com

The republic of Bihar, by Arvind N. Das

Bihar: Myth And Reality by Ramendra Kumar Yadav

History Of Bihar 1740-1772 by Shree Govind Mishra

Socio-religious Economic And Literary Condition Of Bihar by B S Verma

Megahi Culture: A Study Of A Caste In Bihar by A Maitra

India: A Wounded Civilization by Naipaul V S

The Revival Of Buddhist Pilgrimage At Bodh Gaya (1811-1949): Anagarika Dharmapala And The Mahabodhi Temple by Alan Trevithick

Agrarian Crisis In India: The Case Of Bihar by Jannuzi F. Tomasson

History Of Magadh by L S S Omalley

Indigo And The Raj: Peasant Protests In Bihar 1780-1917 by Prabhat Kumar Shukla

Patna Through The Ages by Qeyamuddin Ahmad

The History Of The Bengali Language by B C Mazumdar, Bijaychandra Mazumdar

Ardha Magadhi Reader by B D Jain

Ancient India As Described By Ptolemy by John W Mc Crindle

Life In Ancient India: As Depicted In The Digha Nikaya by C Patra

Buddhism In India As Described By The Chinese Pilgrims by Kanai Lal Hazra

Ancient India As Described By Megasthenes And Arrian by John W Mccrindle

Magadhan Literature by Harprasad Sastry

Hindi Nationalism by Rai Alok

Report On The Excavations At Pataliputra , The Palibothra Of The Greeks by Austine L Waddell

Manoj nav (talk) 18:13, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Excellent introduction. May I recommend adding the "Suri" dynasty alomg with Maurya and Gupta as one of Bihar's empires. Looking forward to your analysis

  Bengali is also a language spoken in Bihar; recommend you add. pls read link. thanks

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Patna/Bangla_to_be_taught_in_schools/articleshow/2856621.cms —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.104.212.36 (talk) 12:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Ya the 2nd para of the introduction needs to be extended a bit more. Also Ancient Bihar wasn't just Magadha, but Vaisali and Anga as well. The core of the Magadha was just south Bihar.

Total Bengali speakers are around 20 lakhs, if I am right, where as Bhojpuri, Magadhi, Maithili has speakers more then 1.5 crores each. So they are the major languages. Angika also has lesser speakers. I recommend adding all the languages in the side bar, and keeping just Bhojpuri, Magadhi and Maithili in the introduction. Please comment. Manoj nav (talk) 19:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

  Agree. A side bar would be vry useful. The bit on racism against Biharis is fairly useful also given the situation faced by 
  Biharis in India today. 

  1) I think we also need the section on the Bihar economy cleaned up and a seperate page altogether and I am happy to 
  populate
  2) A section on the prejudice and racism (seperate page) faced by Bihari people in india today. If you create I am happy 
  to  populate.
  Let's make this a comprehensive overview of Biharis as of 2008.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.106.36.127 (talk) 10:14, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 

New articles related to Bihar

Racism_faced_by_Bihari_people_in_India and Economy_of_Bihar

Kindly contribute.

I think the page on racism should contain

• incidents which have taken place,
• reason for one sided hate (e.g total absence of Bihari sub-nationalism and presence of strong regional-nationalism in places like Maharashtra and Punjab ...),
• stand of Biharis on this issue in recent time,
• emergence of Bihari sub-nationalism among the educated Bihari elites in recent time,
• news items like " Singh Is Kinng bombs in Bihar" [2],
• Bihar gov. and Bihari political parties role [3]
• Developments in Bihar and changing attitude of Bihari middle class against Brain Drain from Bihar, apathy of the central government etc

We should make sure the there are suitable citations and the article is not an original research. Manoj nav (talk) 17:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

   i agree and will follow your instructions  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.106.36.127 (talk) 08:13, 23 August 2008 (UTC) 

History Section

please summarise history section on main bihar page, and transfer most of the information to the history of bihar page. like the economy section. same for the timeline. is that ok with you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.106.36.127 (talk) 08:12, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

ya .. the history section has become too long. We need to summarize it on the man page. I would also suggest to have new sections on 'Flora and fauna', Health, Sports, Media. Demographics has been included as a sub-section in culture. It should be outside, isn't? We may also think of have a table, which summarizes Subdivisions in Bihar, as it is there in Kerala article. Manoj nav (talk) 16:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Hay Manoj; i summarized the history section only for it to be reverted bck. pls check and revert bck —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.254.40 (talk) 21:03, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Intro is again unencyclopedic and too long

Why is stuff like its rural population %age, the distance of Kolkata, youth population mentioned in the intro ? That should be in demographics. Also lines like, "Bihar lies mid-way between the humid West Bengal in the east and the sub humid Uttar Pradesh in the west which provides it with a transitional position in respect of climate, economy and culture." need citations. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 18:02, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Do we need "It is a land–locked state, although the outlet to the sea through the port of Kolkata is not far away. Bihar lies mid-way between the humid West Bengal in the east and the sub humid Uttar Pradesh in the west which provides it with a transitional position in respect of climate, economy and culture. It is bounded by Nepal in the north and by Jharkhand in the south. The Bihar plain is divided into two unequal halves by the river Ganga which flows through the middle from west to east. Bihar has notified forest area of 6,764.14 sq km, which is 7.1 per cent [4] of its geographical area." in the intro? Manoj. Pls advise. Without this, i think the intro covers a lot of what needs to be said?

The article is in the process of improvement. Follow key figures ( and more ..) are necessary to understand Bihar and the people there.

• the 12th largest state in terms of geographical size
• 3rd largest by population
• 90 per cent rural population
• 58 per cent of Biharis are below 25 years age
• Bihar has a forest area of just 7.1 per cent

The introduction should introduce all the sections with a balance of geography, economy, history, demogaphy etc. I would request, people with sufficient knowledge of Bihar, only to edit the article. The article, along with the introduction is in the process of improvement. We aim to make it a featured article, but at the same time contents can't be compromised.

Manoj nav (talk) 08:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, Mr. Manoj, you are nobody to say stuff like "I would request, people with sufficient knowledge of Bihar, only to edit the article.", anybody who has the references to back up their claims can edit wikipedia. You still havent justified why the last 3 items in your list should be in the intro.I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 22:15, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Kindly sign your response. No body can stop me from requesting people here. In fact you don't have any right to attack me personally by saying "you are nobody to say stuff like .... ". You are repeating your conflict which I have already answered. The article is being improved, which will take some time. Those figures are very important to introduce Bihar. Gov. of Bihar's ( http://gov.bih.nic.in/Profile/default.htm ) introduction of Bihar starting with ... "Bihar is located in the eastern part of the country (between 83°-30' to 88°-00' longitude). It is an entirely land–locked state, although the outlet to the sea through the port of Kolkata is not far away." I think it would be a good idea to make a new page temporarily for revision purpose. Manoj nav (talk) 16:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

The Bihar gov. page is not part of an online encyclopedia. Have you looked at the intros of other states like Karnataka, Tamil Nadu that are WP:FA.I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 22:15, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Part of Tamil Nadu's very odd intro - someone shd go and edit? The state has the highest number (10.56%) of business enterprises in India,[4] remarkable compared to the population share of about 6%. It is one of the foremost states in the country in terms of overall development.[5][6] It is home to many natural resources, rare flora and fauna, grand Hindu temples of Dravidian architecture, beach resorts, multi-religious pilgrimage sites and three UNESCO World Heritage Sites.[7][8]While India ranked 128 in human development index calculated worldwide with 0.619, Tamil Nadu has performed well with an index of 0.736 in year 2006, inching closer to 0.800 which is considered high development.[9][10] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.254.40 (talk) 00:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The Tamil Nadu intro does not stay stuff like Bangalore is 300 miles from Chennai or something like that, apart from the first line there nothing strikes me as odd. Fact: TN is a leading state. Fact: It is home to many beaches and heritage sites. The HDI index is a fact. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations (talk) 03:22, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

FACT: Bihar what has been described correctly - those points are real. The TN facts do not need to be there but are defended by you and left there. Lets check England's intro (sub national vision of the UK)......

England [ˈɪŋglənd] (help·info) is a country, which is part of the United Kingdom.[3][4] Its inhabitants account for more than 83% of the total UK population,[5] whilst its mainland territory occupies most of the southern two-thirds of the island of Great Britain. England shares land borders with Scotland to the north and Wales to the west and elsewhere is bordered by the North Sea, Irish Sea, Celtic Sea, Bristol Channel and English Channel. The capital is London, the largest urban area in Great Britain, and the largest urban zone in the European Union by most, but not all, measures.[6]

England became a unified state in the year 927 and takes its name from the Angles, one of the Germanic tribes who settled there during the 5th and 6th centuries. It has had a significant cultural and legal impact on the wider world[7] being the place of origin of the English language, the Church of England and English law, which forms the basis of the common law legal systems of many countries around the world. In addition, England was the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution[8] being the first country in the world to become industrialised.[9] It is home to the Royal Society, which laid the foundations of modern experimental science. England is the world's oldest parliamentary democracy[10] and consequently many constitutional, governmental and legal innovations that had their origin in England have been widely adopted by other nations.

The Kingdom of England (including Wales) continued as a separate state until 1 May 1707, when the Acts of Union, putting into effect the terms agreed in the Treaty of Union the previous year, resulted in political union with the Kingdom of Scotland to create the united

and also.....Texas

Texas (IPA: /ˈtɛksəs/) is a state geographically located in the South Central United States and is also known as the Lone Star State. Austin is the state capital. Texas is the second largest U.S. state in both area and population, with an area of 268,820 square miles (696,200 km2) and a growing population of 23.9 million. Houston is the state's largest city. The Dallas/Fort Worth area is the largest metropolitan statistical area in Texas and the fourth-largest metropolitan statistical area in the United States.

Traveling east to west, the landscape of Texas gradually evolves from that of the Deep South into that of the desert Southwest, going from piney woods to semi-forests of oak and cross timbers, into rolling plains and prairie, then finally to desert in the Big Bend. These wide open spaces of the Texas prairie have lent currency to the phrase that "everything is bigger in Texas".[7] Due to its long history as a center of the American cattle industry, Texas is associated throughout much of the world with the image of the cowboy.

Historically and culturally, Texas has close ties to the American South. However, having once been both a Spanish and Mexican possession, it can also be classified as a Southwestern state. While residents acknowledge these categories, many claim an independent "Texan" identity superseding regional labels.

Spain was the first European country to claim the area of Texas. It was then part of Mexico until 1836 when it became the independent Republic of Texas. In 1845 it joined the United States as the 28th state. The state's annexation was one of a chain of events that led to the Mexican-American War in 1846 and the U.S. Civil War.

In the early 1900s, oil discoveries led to an economic boom in the state. Texas has since economically diversified. It has a growing base in high technology, biomedical research and higher education. The state's gross state product is the second-highest in the nation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Notashamed (talk • contribs) 10:33, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Culture and Contemporary Life section

This section is kind of touristy (festivals, art, folksongs, dance). Nothing wrong with that and I wouldn't want to see it deleted, but what about digging a little deeper and helping outsiders understand the ultra-nationalist Hindu movements that affect politics and make life insecure for too many Biharis?

Bihar has a number of cultures. They are generally tied to languages and dialects. The languages are mentioned in passing, but the language-culture nexus is left unexplored.

For example there's the Mithila culture (and Maithili language) that is apparently tied to the Kosi region. This culture always coexisted with floods and apparently regarded the river as both danger and a blessing for renewing and watering the soil. This could be in interesting sidelight to the 2008 floods. How did people cope with flooding before engineers in the Western model got involved? Isn't treating flooding along the Kosi as a purely technical problem a POV violation? LADave (talk) 19:57, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I have started following new articles.

• Culture of Angika Region
• Culture of Bhojpuri Region
• Culture of Magadh Region
• Culture of Mithila Region

Manoj nav (talk) 10:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I have merged them with a title - Culture of Bihar. Manoj nav (talk) 10:02, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

The birthplace of Hinduism?

The Punjab might have something to say about that... AnonMoos (talk) 02:41, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Why I feel Bihar, also, is a birth place of Hinduism because Ramayana was composed by valmiki who used to live at Valmiki Nagar, Bihar and composed Ramayana there. Sita was from Sitamarhi, Bihar. Manoj nav (talk) 07:25, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Dr.Rajendra.Prasad.jpg

The image Image:Dr.Rajendra.Prasad.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:

• Image:Nitish Kumar On India Today Cover.JPG
• Image:JP SK rally.jpg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --05:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Article

• History -- Should be small and Comprehensive
• Economy & Macro-economic trend should be merged
• Art - Should be small and Comprehensive. We can start new article Art in Bihar
• Media in Bihar - all subsection should be merged

Please Wikfy the article and put references 204.152.235.216 (talk) 12:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I have done some edits. Kindly give your feed back. Manoj nav (talk) 06:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't be online much for next 10 days. Manoj nav (talk) 10:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Just for the information - 221.148.185.85 is my IP. Manoj nav (talk) 10:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Sections which need to be expended -

I have edited the article in recent times. It would be good to expand following sections a bit -

1. Geography & climate
2. Fauna and Flora
3. Demographics
4. Media
5. Tourism

Manoj nav (talk) 21:26, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

New edits

1) Details about Buddha, Buddhism, Jainism should be added to the respective articles.

• Lord Buddha is said to be a descendant of Sage Angirasa in many Buddhist texts. Buddhists and scholars like Dr. Eitel connects linear to the Gautama Maharishi.There too were Kshatiryas of other clans to whom members descend from Angirasa, to fulfill a childless king's wish.
• Buddhism is also known as "Brahmayana" and Jainism is also a "Brahma-patha".

2)New section - Origin of the Biharis -

---

It is believed that a king of the Yadavas, nicknamed "Mahabali" ruled over this last in the very ancient times. He was impotent. His guru was Maharishi Dirghatamas. Mahabali had many wives and so Maharishi Dirghatamas with the permission of his king impregnated Mahabali's chief queen Sudeshna.

Queen Sudeshna bore five children or "Kshetrajas" (rulers of lands), one of them was King Anga, which is modern-day Bihar. From Anga sprang Anapana Anapana.

Bihar is also believed to be where King Satyavrata (सत्यव्रत) of the Pandya Dynasty resided after the flood in his kingdom, with the help of Vishnu-Avatar Matsya.

---

It's a POV. The section should be 1st discussed here before it is placed appropriately in the article.

Manoj nav (talk) 05:23, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It's not up to you to discuss what POV is. Biharis have to be educated about their heritage, their origin; where they originated from. - Combustion X

As far the section Origin of the Biharis is concerned, it don't deserves to be in the article Bihar because there is already an article called Bihari people. So sections such as Origin of the Biharis should be added to the article Bihari people. But before placing the section in the article Bihari people, the topic should be 1st properly studied. The content to the section is mythological and not historical. It's similar to the story of Adam and Eve. Also historical Anga constituted about 1/4th modern-day Bihar. Manoj nav (talk) 04:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

But Dirghatamas is a major figure in the ancient history of Bihar. Therefore, him, along with the traditional tale of the origin of Biharis has to be given. - Otherwise, why not have the "Etymology" section in the "Bihari people" article? - Combustion X

Kindly improve upon the article Bihari people and participate in the discussion there. Manoj nav (talk) 05:13, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

3)The name Bihar is derived from the Sanskrit word Brahmavihāra meaning living in the Brahman-heaven.

You have cited a tertiary source for the above claim. Citation of secondary source is prefered. Or atleast provide a note, of exact lines in the source, with the reference cited. It is more popularly known that Bihar is derived from the word Vihara. Vihara it's seems to be derived from the word Brahmavihāra as claimed by you. But still it would be better to keep the earlier sentence - The name Bihar is derived from the Sanskrit word Vihār, and then talk about Brahmavihāra. Manoj nav (talk) 11:13, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Every scholar knows that Vihar comes from Brahmavihara, the term that Lord Buddha established. - Combustion X

Do you have any reference which claims - Every scholar knows that Vihar comes from Brahmavihara? Lord Buddha might have established Brahmavihara. But this automatically doesn't means that Bihar is directly derived from Brahmavihara instead of Vihara.Manoj nav (talk) 04:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes but the derivation of the term Vihar needs to be given; the etymology of "Vihar" itself. - Combustion X

External links

Should we start a new sub section section - blog links, in the section - external links?

There are some good blogs, very informative and useful, which belong to groups or individuals with no profit motives. I personally feel that some of these blog links should be provided in the article, so that the article become richer and useful. Manoj nav (talk) 05:16, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

File:Patna.jpg may be deleted

I have tagged File:Patna.jpg, which is in use in this article for deletion because it does not have a copyright tag. If a copyright tag is not added within seven days the image will be deleted. --Chris 07:13, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Section Politics POV

I just read a few paragraphs in the section Politics and some fragments are POV. Not extremely POV, but it is clearly not NPOV, as it should be. Can a neutral editor with enough expertise please take a look and fix it? Thanks in advance, --Jeroen (talk) 19:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Too Big Article (Recomemnded 30 - 50 KB | Current Size 120 KB)

This page is 120 kilobytes long. It may be appropriate to split this article into smaller, more specific articles. See Wikipedia:Article size.

• Web browsers will have problems with long articles

We need to work on each section.. Devessh S N Bhatta (talk) 12:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

---

great article

this is one of the best articles of wikipedia (as i noticed),this article is been valuable in information ,delightful in picture gallery , attractive in discription and beautyful in genral model.interesting from from ethmology to tourism part.this article is historical ,political , religious and apart them humanistic value.but climate of bihar is short content that may be edited by any expert.

---

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.200.192.227 (talk) 12:29, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Politics section

While going through an interview article .. ref - http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/economy/how-real-is-bihars-stunning-growth_434747-1.html , I read "A place like Bihar has not been a functioning state. This was not the case only during the post independence period but even in the pre-independence period. For the first time there is effort to build a state structure."

Isn't it contradictory to the statements here in the article - "They ran an exemplary government in Bihar. Bihar was rated as the best administered among the states in the country at that time."

Bihar was a best administered according to some British. Is that information really reliable, if Bihar hardly had people centric administration.. Back in the history did people really had faith in the state system, as it is growing now. If the masses do not have faith in the state system and did not participate, how can it be called a functioning state. --Manoj nav (talk) 10:42, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Query

Anon posted this on the article page. —Aaroncrick (talk) 00:22, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Bihār or Bihar?

Which is more correct? Jason Quinn (talk) 17:55, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Anti-British

The reference to contribition to the "Freedom Struggle" is Indian-Nationalist, anti-British, and very POV.124.197.15.138 (talk) 07:59, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Irrelevant Information in the Introduction Paragaraph # 4

Today, Bihar lags behind the other Indian states in human, Only because of the useless fellow Mrityunjay Kumar singh who works with IBM and do not contribute to his state.

How can a single person not part of any Government be responsible for a state's dismal performance in Human Development Index and Economics ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.7.93.71 (talk) 21:57, 23 September 2010 (UTC)