Talk:Blazon

Improvement drive

Heraldry has been nominated to be improved by Wikipedia:This week's improvement drive. Vote for this article there if you want to contribute. --Fenice 19:56, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Insanely complex blazons

Who the heck is that last description for, and is there an image of it somewhere? --Carnildo 07:53, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Not sure yet--the text was on the heraldry page as its own section. I moved it here because it seems to fit better. I'm making a push to overhaul this article and give it a decent length and depth of content. One goal is to identify the listed blazons and try to get images put in for comparison (or else find equivalent examples for which that information is known. -- EncycloPetey 13:03, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

We need an image for each description.

We certainly do! The blazons are pretty useless as examples without a picture at least. A Google search on the last one came up with this page (about 1/4 way down), on the arms of Croatia. It would appear that the quarters are: I. Dalmatia, II. Croatia, III. Slavonia, IV, and escutcheons ????. Looking at the Coat of arms of Croatia page, there is this image of the arms of Austria Hungary. The blazon is for the right hand shield. There is also Image:Coat of Arms of Hungary 1867.jpg, which is the same shield. So, I guess that is the answer. I am now so pleased with my own detective work I will even update the page! ::Supergolden:: 08:37, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Update: mystery blazons with no image removed:

• "Sable, two swords crossed in saltire argent, between four fleurs-de-lis Or, all contained within a bordure purpure"
• "Party per fess argent and sable, in chief a falcon close vert, in base a plate charged with a fleur-de-lis vert"
• "Party per fess: The chief Argent, charged with five bezants, the centre bezant charged in chief with a Latin cross of the field, on a canton in sinister base of the first, a bucket: The base party per pale Azure and Argent, the dexter side charged with three rings conjoined at their centres in pairle, the sinister side charged with a bend sinister Azure bearing three quatrefoil of the field. Behind the shield a pastoral staff. The shield contained within a cartouche and ensigned with an ecclesiastical hat supporting six tassels on either side of the shield."

Gdansk shield with no blazon also removed: Image:PB Gdańsk CoA.png

The last part about the escutcheon (overall an escutcheon tierced in pale a lion rampant Gules crowned Or, Gules a fess Argent and Or on a bend Gules three allerions Argent) is the central shield in Austria Hungary, so I removed it from the blazon so the blazon now describes the image shown.

Oh, finally: Arms of Hungary! Time for a cup of tea... ::Supergolden:: 09:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Not a stub?

Probably should remove the stub categories -- it's not as compendious as it could be, but it seems beyond a stub. AnonMoos 03:44, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Soon, but not quite yet (depending on your definition of a stub). Personally, I don't go by length, but by the answer to the question "Could anyone contribute significantly by searching the web for more information?" In this case, yes, though I'm hoping to rectify that in the next three to four weeks. --EncycloPetey 13:12, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Pay attention!

Is it just me, or is the first picture on this page sable, a bend or, when it has the caption azure, a bend or? That is an embarrassment.

It's a very dark blue, but still blue. If you've got an older CRT monitor, that's probably why it looks black. --Carnildo 20:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep, definitely blue. I mean azure. ::Supergolden:: 08:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

globally unique??

What does this mean? (emphasis added)

For reasons of tradition, many French terms are used, even within English heraldry. This practice ensures that a blazon is globally unique.

French terms are not used in German blazon — so the "globe" excludes Germany? —Tamfang 06:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure what the intention of 'globally unique' is - but please feel free to correct it if you know different. Thanks, ::Supergolden:: 08:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't know different if I can't tell what it means! —Tamfang 20:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

To me "globally unique" means "exists only once on the whole world", as opposed to "unique just in Germany" or "unique except for France, where there are three dozens". —Nightstallion (?) 08:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Right, well, how does Anglo-Norman blazon help maintain such uniqueness? Translation mostly isn't hard. —Tamfang 12:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed that sentence. It didn't make sense to me either. Kpalion 15:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, probs with Image:PB Scrope CoA.png

Before, no picture was showing, only the caption. When I took out the 120px parameter, it displays properly. But now, it's a big honking picture and is out of proportion to the others in the article. Any help would be appreciated. :)  — MrDolomite | Talk 22:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Curious. At 121px it's happy. —Tamfang 00:59, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

LOL. Looks like I literally "missed it by that much."' Thx for the fix. — MrDolomite | Talk 04:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Strange, it used to be ok when I added the image... Someone must've meddled in the matrix I guess. //Halibutt 07:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

French-speaking blazon project

The French-speaking blazon project has been entirely revised, the creation of blazons is now vectorial. A start guide for newcomers has been created and many new charges, ordinaries and surrounding elements have enriched the already existing base, in order to give to the most what is necessary for a simplified creation of free blazons. Thus, don't hesitate to participate, you'll see it's easy and fun to do. What we particularly need is draftsmen for charges creating. See more details on the welcome page of the project. Amically, the French-speaking blazon project team.

"of the nth"

I undid the edit by Denelson83 who reasonably asked, "Aren't each tincture and metal only mentioned by value exactly once in each blazon?" The answer is that the stylistic avoidance of repetition is applied only within each component coat, not to a marshalled coat as a whole. —Tamfang 17:59, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Request for assistance

Hi, I happened on the article for Ansfelden via reading about the composer Bruckner (ain't WP a great time-waster?) and noticed a description of a CoA. I thought I'd have a go at blazoning it for them from the image on the town's website. I'd appreciate it if an expert could cast an eye over it for me. It's on the articles Discussion page. Replies to me or on the articles talk page. Thanks in advance. JustJimWillDo (talk) 07:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks EncycloPetey for that prompt advice. All I've got to do now is get the OP of the CoA to tell how he knows that the bend "represents" two rivers etc. I'd hope that since the Arms were granted only in 1985, there will be a reference. Thanks again. JustJimWillDo (talk) 11:00, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Typo?

In the long description of the Arms of Hungary I noticed what seemed to be a typo: "in the chief a demi-eagle able displayed addextré of the sun in splendour" since the eagle is not described as black, I assumed able was supposed to be sable. If I am mistaken, by all means, revert! Fëaluinix (talk) 13:07, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I should pay more attention...I followed the reference, in which the word in question is sablem. Perhaps another typo? Fëaluinix (talk) 13:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the ‹m› is an error for a comma? —Tamfang (talk) 08:47, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Correct description for this?

This is somewhat trivial but I was wondering how to describe the heraldry used in Lord of the Rings by Aragorn. Essentially it's black, with a white tree, an arc of seven five-pointed stars over the tree, and a tall helm above the stars. I was thinking something like "Sable a white tree proper below seven mullets argent a helm" - but I'm sure it can be done better. (The "white tree" is an actual tree in Lord of the Rings so it's akin to "oak tree proper") 203.217.150.68 (talk) 08:27, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

talking trumpets

At the dawn of heraldry in Teutonic lands, a knight on making his entrance would be announced to the assembly by a certain series of musical notes, describing his armourials, blown by the herald. These notes, when heard by the educated hearer of the chivalric order, enabled him at once to mentally reconstruct the coat, thus identifying the entrant.

Smells like a just-so story to me, even if it is cited to the EB! —Tamfang (talk) 18:23, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

None of my dictionaries (all much more recent than that edition of the EB) accept a derivation of blazon from German blasen 'to blow a horn'. Funny, I thought I removed that passage already. —Tamfang (talk) 08:46, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Boiled down the passage and cited the OED for a proper etymology of blazon. BTW the 1902 Britannica does not support that colorful account of "the educated hearer" identifying a knight by notes blown on a trumpet that describe the knight's emblems. Given the limitations of a natural trumpet, the whole concept is even more absurd than it seems at first. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 23:45, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

caps style

User:Ludger1961 changed Quarterly argent and gules to quarterly Argent and Gules and so on. I'm inclined to simply revert, but let's discuss. In most books I've seen, only the first word of a blazon is capitalized. I believe English grants capitalise all words except grammatical particles (of, and, &c); does anyone prefer to imitate that? —Tamfang (talk) 19:09, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

No comment in two weeks? I'll revert. —Tamfang (talk) 03:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Although by no means universal, it is a fairly common practice to capitalize the tinctures to ease reading. This is purely heraldic convention and has nothing to do with common English writing. o (talk) 13:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

bordure

where is the bordure listed in a blazon? 98.206.155.53 (talk) 23:04, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Last, unless something overlies it. —Tamfang (talk) 22:43, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Question about software

Forgive me if it's not appropriate to ask questions like this here, but what software was used to render the coats of arms seen on this and related pages? They look very nice. Squaregear (talk) 14:11, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Inkscape. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 23:48, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

undoing See Also changes

Hex (talk · contribs) changed See also by removing Flag terminology and adding Achievement (heraldry), Charge (heraldry), Escutcheon (heraldry), Ordinary (heraldry). The last three are linked (some more than once) in the body of the article, and so are redundant here. I question the relevance of Achievement (heraldry). So I simply undid. Hex, do you wish to discuss? —Tamfang (talk) 00:08, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

No, that's fine - I had somehow missed their previous appearance in the article. I noticed after your undo; thanks for mentioning it here. I thought seeing as a blazon can describe part of an achievement that it was a related topic, but you may know better. — Hex (❝?!❞) 12:19, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

My thought (not explicit until now that you prod me) is that you need Blazon to understand achievements but you don't need Achievement (heraldry) to understand blazon. —Tamfang (talk) 19:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Arms of Hungary

The blazon quoted for the Arms of Hungary includes "enté en point Gules a double-headed Eagle proper on a Peninsula Vert ...". But the peninsula is not shown vert. I don't know which is wrong, so I won't try to correct it. Maproom (talk) 08:40, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

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