Talk:Blue Beetle (film)

Why is Bruna Marquezine not a starring actor?

Doesn't show up on the poster but why? Alexysun (talk) 06:03, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Because of contracts and star power. But that doesn't really matter, because we just follow the billing block. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:04, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

@InfiniteNexus: It is evident that Bruna Marquezine's character has a notable role in the film and her image is even very prominent in the poster art, despite the billing block. It's a similar situation to Spider-Man: Homecoming, where the absence of Jacob Batalon and Laura Harrier in the billing block led to this discussion (Link), which resulted in changes to the formatting of the "Cast" section. In the case of Blue Beetle, I also think it would be worth following the opening credits. YgorD3 (talk) 15:45, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

We can't just unilaterally decide to deviate from the billing block unless there has been substantial discussion about it like with Homecoming. However, I don't think it's a good precedent for us to arbitrarily bypass the studio's order every time we think it should be different — it's not up to us, after all. Before long, we'll have editors arguing that Superman (1978 film) should restore Christopher Reeve to his rightful place as the top-billed cast member, or that we should add Ben Affleck to The Flash (film) and Matt Damon to Interstellar (film). InfiniteNexus (talk) 15:55, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't think it's arbitrary to utilize main credits order. It's what we do for the MCU, which sets a strong precedent for cinematic universes. The Affleck and Damon examples would absolutely be arbitrary, considering they are uncredited, but adding actors that are in the main credits sequence is certainly a legitimate topic of discussion. NickH (talk) 04:43, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

The long-standing standard on film articles is to follow the billing block for the cast order, not the film's main titles. The MCU taskforce agreed to make a special exception for MCU articles to follow the main titles instead because of exceptional circumstances: the MCU's tendency to hide spoilery cast members in promotional materials ahead of a film's release. This special WP:LOCALCONSENSUS does not apply to any articles beyond the MCU, and just because the DCEU/DCU and MCU are both comic-book superhero cinematic universes does not mean their articles have to look the same. When I said "arbitrary", I meant that we shouldn't arbitrarily decide to deviate from standard conventions whenever we disagree with a film's billing block order. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:10, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Box-office bomb 2 - (determining a rough standard for a cut-off relative to box-office revenue, theater showings, and weekends since release)

1) After tomorrow we will have passed the 5th weekend of the movie being out.

2) It is currently shown in 62% of theaters relative to its opening weekend, 3,871 vs. 2,386. Movies typically see the drop-off start after the 4th weekend. Only a few movies stick around above 50% theater showings past 8 weekends. ~90% of the box-office is gained during the 1st 3-4 weeks.

3) The following is a small selection of movies labeled as box-office bombs on Wikipedia and their return vs. the break-even point which is used as a benchmark for box-office bombs.

Movie | Budget | Box Office | Break-even | Return miss | Note

The Flash BU-($210.0) BO-($268.5) BE-($420.0) [-36.1%] Note: "One of the biggest box-office bombs of all time."

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny BU-($297.5) BO-($382.7) BE-($595.0) [-35.7%] Note: "...a box office bomb, and resulted in a $100 million loss for Disney"

Ruby Gillman, Teenage Kraken BU-($70.0) BO-($42.9) BE-($140.0) [-69.4%] Note: "Box-office bomb… with projections of an $80 million loss for Universal"

Haunted Mansion BU-($153.9) BO-($106.2) BE-($307.8) [-65.5%] Note: "Box-office bomb."

Black Adam BU-($225.0) BO-($393.0) BE-($450.0) [-12.7%] Note: "Box-office bomb."

Blue Beetle BU-($104.0) BO-($115.7) BE-($208.0) [-44.4%]

Feel free to compare any one of these movies as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biggest_box-office_bombs

4) Blue Beetle would need at least $17 million more to get to -36.1%, which would match The Flash and $92.3 million to break-even. It's not happening. ~90% of the box-office is gained during the 1st 3-4 weeks, 95% is gained before the 6th weekend. This movie would have to gain 44% of its break-even mark in the remaining few weeks to not be a box-office bomb. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when is the appropriate time to label it as such.

5) For all intents and purposes the movie is an inevitable box-office bomb even given Wikipedia's "crystal ball" guidance. The only question that remains is when is the appropriate time to pull the trigger, meaning what counts as a full theatrical release. Some movies, like Black Adam remained in select theaters for up to 12 weeks, but after the 9th week the run is basically over as the theater showings drop from 1,304 (30%) to 178 (4%) from an opening at 4,402. Blue Beetle is currently at 2,386 (62%) from an opening at 3,871. These movies were labeled as box-office bombs well before their 100% concluded theater release, with the vast majority abiding by the reasonable initial run cut-off. In my opinion a reasonable cut-off for the average person, or journalists, would be the 4-week standard in which movies make 90% of their box-office. For Wikipedia's purposes I could see a longer period being considered based on the reasonable definition of what constitutes "enough time" as to not affect the box-office itself via the information of the box-office bomb. [This last point being the consideration that I came to in my self-rebuttal in the section above 'Box-office bomb info'.] I think once a movie drops below 1,000 theaters or 25% of opening weekend theaters and is after its 6th weekend or so, if it's still many millions and many % away from breaking-even then the update can be made.

6) All that being said, after the 6th weekend around 9/25/23, I'm looking to update the article with the box-office bomb info as well as the sources used before and more current ones. Pending any drastic and out-of-nowhere changes such as 'no decrease or an increase in theater showings' or a 'sudden spike in box-office versus the natural trend downwards'. Zombie Philosopher (talk) 00:33, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

SOURCES FOR IMPENDING UPDATE:

8/21/23 - BLUE BEETLE Likely To Become Next DCEU Box Office Flop After Disappointing $43.4 Million Global Debut | Blue Beetle opened in theaters this weekend and things aren't looking good for the latest DC Extended Universe movie. A lower-than-expected $25 million domestic debut was bad enough, but the international numbers are in and, unfortunately, they're not good. The movie has made only $18 million across 61 markets across five days; not only is that lower than Shazam! Fury of the Gods ($34.6 million) but it's also less than what Wonder Woman 1984 ($38.5 million) made during the height of the pandemic when theaters were at 25% capacity.

8/21/23 - Why Blue Beetle never really stood a chance | But as much as labelling a movie a flop after its opening weekend is jumping the gun (after all, look at Elemental crossing $450 million after a slow start), it's also reductive. In Blue Beetle's case, the wider context of its release has to be considered. Blue Beetle might eventually be objectively labelled a box-office flop if it doesn't rebound or sustain a long run, but it's also likely that it never really stood a chance in the first place.

8/28/23 - Box Office Analyst Predicts ‘Blue Beetle’ To Be Another “Massive Flop” For Warner Bros., Predicts It Will Lose Around $100 Million | “That being said because its opening was as small as it was, right in that $30 million range and then this film’s only adding $12.7 million in its second weekend its domestic is only at $46. So it hasn’t even crossed $50 million. And based on the numbers that we’re seeing we’re not likely going to see this film crack $200 million worldwide.” “But let’s just say Blue Beetle is not doing well for Warner Bros. It will likely end up being yet another massive flop for them."

8/31/23 - Is Blue Beetle Shaping Up to Be Another DC Box Office Bomb? | The cumulative effect of these challenges casts a veil of uncertainty over Blue Beetle's long-term box office potential, as the movie has so far grossed $82 million on a budget of $104 million, struggling to break even.

9/8/23 - ‘Blue Beetle’ Budget Breakdown: Another Box Office Flop for DC? | In the usual scenario, a film must generate double its production budget to achieve a break-even point. By applying this principle to Blue Beetle, the film would require global earnings of around $208 million to recover its costs and break even. For Blue Beetle to be deemed a success, it would need to finish its run around $300 million.

9/10/23 - Blue Beetle Box Office: Is It a Major Flop for DC? | Needless to say, Warner Bros. has yet another DCEU flop on its hands.

9/11/23 - Top 7 Biggest DC Universe Box Office Bombs Including Blue Beetle | Although, the film in currently in the top 5 earners at US, it is impossible for it to break even but it just might be able cover its production budget in the coming weeks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zombie Philosopher (talk • contribs) 05:09, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Blue Beetle just dropped on torrents 2 hours ago. That's a fairly big death knell as far as future box-office potential goes. Usually Marvel and other DCEU movies took 2 months before appearing on torrent, this one took exactly 5 weeks. I now support the recent change about the box-office bomb made to the opening paragraph, ahead of the 6 week waiting period I mentioned above. Zombie Philosopher (talk) 11:45, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

References

DCEU

Given the clear statements that this is a "stand alone film", I don't believe it should continue to be listed as a DCEU film.2002:620D:3AF:0:D45A:E14E:C419:7427 (talk) 02:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

It is reliably sourced and confirmed by the creatives to have been developed and released as a DCEU film. Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)