Talk:CSS Pickens/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) 08:24, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'll take this one. Feel free to question my comments where necessary and/or ping me!

Prelim

No copyvio
Duplicated links: Confederate States of America twice in lede, Louisiana twice in service history
- Removed both links
No images to check, would it be possible to add a more general image of an event or actions Pickens was involved in, or perhaps something like File:Revenue Cutter Jefferson Davis model.jpg would be appropriate?
- I've added the model of Jefferson Davis, with a caption indicating that it was a sister ship to Pickens

Lede & infobox

"that saw service for the" > "that saw service in the navies of the"?
- Done
"South West Pass, Mississippi" needs some kind of link
- I'm not entirely sure how to link that. I think it's probably actually Southwest Pass (Mississippi River), but the source isn't clear on this and I don't want to original research the link
...probably "New York" as well
- As with above, I'm not sure if it's a reference to New York (state) or New York (city). My guess is the latter
Infobox has the builder as "Somerset, Massachusetts". Unless the town itself was the primary contractor, J.M. Hood should be noted here too
- I've added J. M. Hood
Some more parts of the infobox can be filled in, such as ship flag, name, namesake (if possible for Pickens as well), propulsion, armament
- I've added quite a bit in (the infobox is now almost as long as the whole article!)
The infobox could more generally do with some work. You've bundled together her service in the US and CS navies which looks a bit messy. Suggest following the layout of an article like USS United States (1797) for the change in navies etc
- Split out

Service history

Again, link New York?
- See above
Link short and long tons as in infobox
- Linked on first usage
Link commissioned
- Done
"Christened" and "launched" direct to the same ceremonial ship launching page, not sure what the use of that is
- I've removed the latter link
"and reached the place" - reads a little clunkily to me, perhaps "and reached there" might suffice
- Done
"sent to Bermuda to transport dispatches to vessels located there" - would this be to part of the Home Squadron?
- I haven't seen anything that would allow me to make that connection. It was a little difficult finding sources for the USRC
Could expand on the event which led to Robert McClelland carrying the dispatches which was this [1]
- Added a bit about this
"with orders to exchange officers and crew with Washington" - it seems like this would be just her picking up the original crew she left here before going for her refit but I'm not sure if you can definitively say so or not?
- That would be my guess, but it's not explicitly stated in the sources I've been able to find
"ordered Second Lieutenant Samuel B. Caldwell to take command of the ship" - note that per this source [2] the order never reached the ship?
- I've added this as well
You title the ship's officers as e.g. "Captain J. G. Breshwood" while one of your sources [3] titles them as "Revenue Captain J. G. Breshwood". Was this a separate rank? I'm not that familiar with US ranks.
- The majority of sources don't use Revenue Captain, so I think it's better to leave it as standard Captain
"Breshwood and the ship's two lieutenants" - 3 commissioned officers in a crew of 13? Wow!
- I thought something similar
second lieutenant could be linked more directly to the US part of the article
- Done
"entered the Confederate States Revenue Service" - considering the ship was named "CSS Pickens" instead of something like CSRC Pickens was this service actually separate to the main navy?
- I actually originally had this at CSRC Pickens. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history/Archive_162#Getting_the_proper_italics_for_warship_articles for why it's at the current prefix. The CS Revenue Service was separate on paper, but only briefly existed, because it looks like Pickens and Washington were the only CSRC ships and both were burned about a year into the war.
Where possible introduce what type of ship something is when naming them for the first time, e.g. "the sidewheel gunboat USS Water Witch"
- I think I've got all of these (Ivy, Jackson, and Water Witch). The fact that the Confederates were using a tugboat and a towboat
"withdrew to Fort Jackson." - can you categorically say why, for example that Water Witch was too much of a superior force or something?
- Source doesn't say. I'm not sure. My guess would be that a sail-propelled revenue cutter and an armed towboat didn't want to mess with an actual steam-powered naval vessel, but I don't have support for that
"Water Witch fired 23 rounds at the two ships before bombarding riverbank positions" - is this after they withdrew to Fort Jackson?
- I've clarified the chronology here
"followed by Ivy." - this sounds quite passive. Was Ivy tailing her, pursuing her, etc?
- I've added it to be "passively followed", as Ivy followed "at a very respectful distance"
Two "gathered"s quite close together, perhaps the second could be replaced with "reported to"?
- I've changed the first one to "collected"
"for an attack on Union vessels at Head of Passes" - I realise this is more background than anything else, but so far the article leads me to believe that it was CSA ships stationed here. What are these Union vessels/where do they come from?
- I've added a couple sentences about the Union occupying Head of Passes
"towards the Union positions during the battle." - did they win?! Don't leave me on such a cliff-hanger!
- I've added some more content about this
Link Battle of the Head of Passes somewhere in the main text so readers know this is that battle
- Done
"When Hollins and most of his ships moved upriver to Kentucky" - when?
- Added
"they could conceivably help defend the city" - did they actually have to do this? Was this a required role of the ships or just something that it's been suggested they might have been able to do? Could be clarified
- Clarified - mainly a hypothetical
"During 1861 and early 1862, Pickens served on the lower part of the Mississippi River." - it seems most of 1861 had already come and gone by this point. Perhaps "during the remainder of 1861"?
- Rephrased
"Flag Officer" - never heard of this before, what a strange rank!
- Odd story, too. The United States thought "admiral" sounded too aristocratic when the country was first formed, but they needed ranks higher than captain. So they used Flag Officer until they finally bit the bullet and created "admiral" in 1862

References

References and sources look good.

That's all I have for now. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 08:24, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: - I've taken a first pass at responding to these, although I don't have great answers for some. Thanks for the review! How do the changes so far look? Hog Farm _Talk 05:40, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Hog Farm: I've made a few small changes to wording and the infobox which hopefully you won't have any issues with. A shame some of the information I questioned about isn't available but the article isn't really harmed by its absence. Just some minor queries remain:
- Any idea where the name Pickens came from?
  - None that I've been able to find. Possibly Francis Wilkinson Pickens, but I haven't found anything that says where this name comes from
- "She then traveled along the coastlines of Texas and Louisiana." - this sounds like it's just one voyage made some time in 1854, but as it's the only information from 1854 to 1859 was this actually a repeated patrol route? Could clarify either way
  - Source implies this is a patrol route, so I've rephrased to reflect this
- Thoughts on changing the CSA infobox flag to ?
  - Note done - that flag didn't enter use until after Pickens was burned. is likewise anachrostic.
- "she arrived at South West Pass" > "she returned to South West Pass"?
  - Done
- Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:36, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: - replies above. Hog Farm _Talk 01:32, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Hog Farm: Thanks. I agree with your explanation vis a vis infobox flags and am happy with the rest of your edits. I am passing this article as meeting the GA criteria. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 08:48, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]