Talk:Cambridge/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Emir of Wikipedia (talk · contribs) 14:50, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I hope to review this article soon. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 14:50, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria

Good Article Status - Review Criteria

Further information: WP:WIAGA

A good article is—

Well-written:

(a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and

(b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.^[1]

Verifiable with no original research:

(a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;

(b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose);^[2]

(c) it contains no original research; and

(d) it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.

Broad in its coverage:

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;^[3] and

(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

^[4]

Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

^[5]

(a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and

(b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.^[6]

Review

Well-written:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (prose)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined
(b) (MoS)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined

Verifiable with no original research:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (references)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined
(b) (citations to reliable sources)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined
(c) (original research)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined
(d) (copyvio and plagiarism)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined

Broad in its coverage:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (major aspects)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined
(b) (focused)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.

Notes	Result
The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined

Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Notes	Result
The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined

Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined
(b) (appropriate use with suitable captions)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined

Result

Result	Notes
Undetermined	The reviewer has no notes here.

Discussion

Please add any related discussion here.

Additional notes

^ Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style, or the Manual of Style mainpage or subpages of the guides listed, is not required for good articles.
^ Either parenthetical references or footnotes can be used for in-line citations, but not both in the same article.
^ This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics.
^ Vandalism reversions, proposals to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as copy editing), and changes based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply. Nominations for articles that are unstable because of unconstructive editing should be placed on hold.
^ Other media, such as video and sound clips, are also covered by this criterion.
^ The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement. However, if images (or other media) with acceptable copyright status are appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.

Comments by Ritchie333

@Ilikeeatingwaffles:, @Emir of Wikipedia: I was surprised to see this pass GA, particularly given the extent of reviews Portsmouth and Faversham had, and Cambridge is far more important historically. Amongst the immediate problems I see:

There has been no mention of why Talk:Cambridge/GA1 failed, and if any of the issues have been addressed
The inline citations in the lead should at least be commented on
The Roman history section is quite small. I am sure this should be longer, given its prominent importance to Roman Britain on the Via Devana
The medieval history section looks to be too small as well, I would expect more on the city's relationship between East and Middle Anglia, for example
The end of the first paragraph of the "Medieval" section is unsourced
The town north of the river was severely affected being almost wiped out - "wiped out" is a WP:EUPHEMISM and should not be used in a GA
I would expect even a summary of King's College Chapel to contain more than two terse sentences
Similarly, In 1209, Cambridge University was founded by students escaping from hostile townspeople in Oxford does not cut it, even as a summary, for the substantial historical importance the university has on the city
Personal opinion this, but I'm sure I have seen the college backs onto the Cam described as one of the greatest views in Europe, or something similar. I would recommend researching this and putting something about the backs in the article. It is the lead picture, after all!
Following numerous deaths due to plague - is this the Black Death 200 years earlier or something else? This needs to be documented
The "Cambridge SUDS Design & Adoption Guide" source is a dead link - this should be at least retrieved via the Wayback Machine if possible
The demography in Cambridge changes considerably in and out of University term times, so can be hard to measure - as well as being unsourced, this is not a particularly encyclopedic section of prose
What makes Cambridgefutures.org a reliable source?
The Transport section makes no mention of the numerous former rail services that ran from it, including the Cambridge to Mildenhall railway, the Stour Valley Railway and the Cambridge & St. Ives Branch Line
and the A1303 to Newmarket and beyond to Colchester. - the A1303 is a local road, the historical 20th century road between Cambridge and Colchester is the now-defunct A604, the modern way is probably the A14 / A12 via Ipswich or the M11 / A120 / A12 via Stansted. Either way, this is factually incorrect.
The A service continues on to the railway station and Addenbrookes, before terminating at a new Park and Ride in Trumpington. - this sentence is unsourced

I'm sorry, but just from a ten-minute look through the article, it does not appear to meet the GA criteria. We need to sort this out; either the review can be reopened and I'll look at it some more, or we can roll the article back to C-class status, which I think is fairer. I am not inclined to go to a full reassessment via WP:GAR, which I feel is overkill.

Also paging @J3Mrs: and @Eric Corbett: for comment. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 16:40, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think Portsmouth and Devon are completely irrelevant to this. The citations in the lead are minimal and are appropriate for both controversial content as well as content that isn't mentioned elsewhere. I think the history sections are adequate for a GA but not an FA. The end line of the first paragraph is non-controversial and can easily be deduced from the borders. I think that if you disagree you should go through with a full reassessment. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 17:17, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) I agree. Emir of Wikipedia, I have no doubt at all that you're working in good faith, but GAC isn't just a matter of working through a checklist, and there's no way that this is sufficient as a GA review for a 6600-word article. Just a skim through the end sections, without even looking at the body text, throws up obvious red flags. (What makes this a reliable source, for instance, and what is this section doing there?) I also agree with Ritchie that Following numerous deaths due to plague screams out as something that needs clarification as I'm unaware of any plague outbreak in East Anglia in the early 16th or early 17th century (the 'source' for this claim is a guide to country walks which is immediately suspect given that it claims plague is spread via untreated sewage, and "plague is spread by Y. pestis" is probably the one piece of epidemiology which every schoolchild knows). ‑ Iridescent 17:26, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As a basic rule of thumb, the more popular an article is, the more work is needed at a GA review, which is why minor albums need less overall work than an article like this one, which gets about 1,800 views a day, to the extent the talk page says "Please maintain high quality standards; if you are an established editor your last version in the article history may be used so please don't leave the article with unresolved issues". I mentioned Portsmouth's GA because the effort involved there (and it hasn't finished yet!) is orders of magnitude more than this one, which will give you some idea of what's required for something like this. Cambridge is a worthy article to take to GA, and would be an excellent benefit to the project if done correctly. You really don't want to go to GAR - I fully predict the article and review will be torn apart and you'll feel completely disillusioned. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 17:55, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just catching up, I don't think it's anything to do with popularity, more to do with complexity. Settlement articles are difficult and reviewing then takes some background knowledge. I don't think this article meets GA criteria 3a. I did a bit of copyediting but at no time thought it comprehensive enough to pass a GA. J3Mrs (talk) 09:17, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

By "popular" I specifically mean a cross between "has more page views" and "has more coverage in reliable sources"; otherwise I agree with what you say. As there is no clear consensus this can pass GA without significant work, I am closing the review as "not listed" for the time being. That's not to say the article shouldn't be improved - of course it should - but it's best to do this out of the spotlight of GAN. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 09:26, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style, or the Manual of Style mainpage or subpages of the guides listed, is not required for good articles.

[2] Either parenthetical references or footnotes can be used for in-line citations, but not both in the same article.

[3] This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics.

[4] Vandalism reversions, proposals to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as copy editing), and changes based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply. Nominations for articles that are unstable because of unconstructive editing should be placed on hold.

[5] Other media, such as video and sound clips, are also covered by this criterion.

[6] The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement. However, if images (or other media) with acceptable copyright status are appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.

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