Talk:Canadian public debt

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Canadian public debt article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is written in Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Canada: Governments High‑importance

	Canada portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Governments of Canada.

Business Mid‑importance

	Business portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Business, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of business articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BusinessWikipedia:WikiProject BusinessTemplate:WikiProject BusinessWikiProject Business articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Finance & Investment Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Finance & Investment, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Finance and Investment on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Finance & InvestmentWikipedia:WikiProject Finance & InvestmentTemplate:WikiProject Finance & InvestmentFinance & Investment articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Economics Mid‑importance

	Business and economics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Economics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Economics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EconomicsWikipedia:WikiProject EconomicsTemplate:WikiProject EconomicsEconomics articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Intro section is confused and contradictory. The government of Canada is separate from the provincial governments. Treasury securities are not the same as provincial bonds. Most important - the federal gov't owns the BoC whereas the provinces do not. So aggregating the debts is misleading. Mmtincanada (talk) 05:48, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

?Foreign ownership section?

Why have this section since the table is populated with no data? I'm not criticizing I just don't understand. Thanks, Hu Gadarn (talk) 14:40, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ideally so it gets populated, as well its present in other articles for other countries, not a specific answer but likely why its there. I havent been able to find reliable info to populate however and there was a standing award at WP:reward board for some time if it was. If you want to remove the unpopultaed table right now i dont think there would b e a huge objection Ottawa4ever (talk) 16:10, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source of data for gross debt column?

Does anyone know how the data in the 'Gross debt' column was collected? The article references www.debtclock.ca which contains some but not all of the numbers but does not cite the source of the data. As far as I can tell the figures do not represent gross debt but are actually closer to net debt. Statcan.gc.ca provides data up to 2008 and for "Gross federal government debt" it states:

1997	1998	1999	2000	2001	2002	2003	2004	2005	2006	2007	2008
651,124	645,725	648,389	648,212	644,900	640,526	629,638	628,830	626,217	619,701	618,765	594,390

Where as "Net federal government financial debt" is:

1997	1998	1999	2000	2001	2002	2003	2004	2005	2006	2007	2008
588,402	581,581	574,468	561,733	545,300	534,690	526,492	523,648	523,344	514,099	508,122	490,412

For example, for 1997 both the article and debtclock.ca state that the debt peaked at 562,881 which is lower than both gross debt and net debt from statcan which does not show this number anywhere in its figures for 1997.

Similarly for 2010 the article states 551,380 which is again lower than both total (not gross) debt and net debt stated in public accounts of canada for 2010 (http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/pdf/49-eng.pdf):

Statement of Financial Position

Total liabilities . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 883.3

Financial assets . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .300.8

Net debt . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 582.5

Accumulated deficit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 519.1

P.S. www.debclock.ca also contains contradictory data in the video stating at 0:43 that "National debt peaks in 1996 at $720 billion". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cdnxmax (talk • contribs) 20:55, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Graph or chart

A graph or chart should be included to help visualize the history of the public debt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.63.148 (talk) 11:38, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

High debt to gdp ratio section seems like it should go in a more general category. Its not just specific to Canada's debt situation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.32.26 (talk) 05:11, 16 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Reinhart and Rogoff?

This article has like 6 paragraphs about the Reinhart and Rogoff paper. That research is almost totally discredited now, and it also has nothing to do with Canada. The paragraphs themselves explain some of the debate around that issue, but the whole thing is off-topic and unreadable -- should it just be destroyed? --23.233.25.106 (talk) 09:33, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Seconded -- it's a bizarre inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.176.114.49 (talk) 02:25, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

FY2014 published in 2015

The main article is a little disorganized so I do not feel qualified to update it. But the official FY2014 numbers were published here: http://www.fin.gc.ca/afr-rfa/2015/report-rapport-eng.asp which show "net debt" increasing from 682.3 to 687.0 billion. I defer to others who might know the difference between "net debt" and "Federal debt (accumulated deficit)". Comment: the government claimed to balance the budget and yet both these debt-numbers increased; it would appear that the budget was only balanced as a percent of GDP Neilrieck (talk) 12:24, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Minor Errors with Official Canadian Numbers

While preparing to correct some numbers in the debt table I noticed an error with the official numbers published by the Canadian government. The 2012-2013 numbers here: http://www.fin.gc.ca/afr-rfa/2013/report-rapport-eng.asp indicate an accumulated deficit of 602.4 billion but the number changes to 609.4 when it is carried forward to the left-hand column of the next report here: http://www.fin.gc.ca/afr-rfa/2014/report-rapport-eng.asp (I will assume the later report contains the correct number). One more thing, at the bottom of these reports you will see what I believe is a more realistic GDP than what is published in the table here. I do not know where these numbers came from but do not feel comfortable correcting them without some input from the wiki community. Comments Please? Neilrieck (talk) 11:59, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

^ agree with the above comments, the GDP numbers are completely out of whack with anything I can find. Even the linked-to World Bank page does not show the numbers above. I suspect these numbers came from the US dollar equivalent at the time the report was pulled. Since this is an article about Canadian numbers, and the debt listed is in Canadian dollars, we should probably use Canadian dollars also for the GDP numbers (otherwise the ratios mean nothing). I'll update it if anyone seconds this suggestion (the correct data series would be here: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CN?end=2016&locations=CA&start=1960, using Current LCU series, as per https://datahelpdesk.worldbank.org/knowledgebase/articles/114942-what-is-the-difference-between-current-and-constan)
- Aminland (talk) 05:14, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Risks of high debt section as Off-Topic

The section titled "Risks of high debt-to-GDP ratio" contains information that is relevant to the national debt level of any country, but it is not particularly relevant to this present article. The content should either be shifted to another, more appropriate article on that subject (with links as needed), or deleted. Amornoguerra (talk) 08:50, 8 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GDP $Billions Column

The data in this column doesn't seem to match it's citation. The GDP listed in the source $1,823 for 2014, $1,779 for 2013 and 1,744 for 2012. But I may have overlooked something. The source lists "GDP (constant LCU)". Does this represent the most commonly accepted term of "GDP", or is it a variation? Urquanmaster (talk) 15:49, 28 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See my comment above Aminland (talk) 05:15, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The data is clearly inaccurate, and was probably taken from various sources. No credible source would have a 19% GDP growth in 2015. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.253.51.202 (talk) 20:43, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Canadian public debt. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091026151147/http://www.debtclock.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=42 to http://www.debtclock.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=42

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:21, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not written like an encyclopedia article

This article isn’t an encyclopedia article, it’s a jumbled undergraduate essay. 24.89.236.64 (talk) 02:31, 3 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OECD

Removed the following as it is cut and pasted from the RS: According to the OECD, changes in government debt over time reflect primarily borrowing due to past government deficits.^[1] A deficit occurs when government spending exceeds revenues.^[2] The OECD RS does not include this general statement, which does not belong in the lead without some reference in the main body of content: Deficit financing generally creates an intergenerational transfer because the beneficiaries of the goods and services the government provides today through deficit financing typically differ from the individuals responsible for repaying the debt in the future. (An instance where debt would not lead to an intergenerational transfer is if borrowing is used for a one-time purchase of an asset that supplies goods and services in the future which are matched to the debt repayment costs; for example, issuing debt today that is repaid over 50 years to finance a bridge that lasts 50 years.)

References

^ OECD Data. "OECD General government debt". OECD.org.
^ OECD Data. "General government deficit". OECD.org.

Oceanflynn (talk)

Plagiarism

After revisiting existing RS, quite a bit of plagiarism has been found and replaced as much as possible. This is an ongoing work in progress. I prefer to believe that this was unintentional on the part of the editor. The language in Statistic Canada's The Daily, is technical and maintaining its accuracy is so essential.Oceanflynn (talk) 17:35, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of resources for maintaining updates

Debt management report 2020-2011 (PDF). Department of Finance Canada (Report). 2022. p. 54. ISSN 1487-0177. Retrieved 26 September 2022.</ref>^: 49 published annually, preferably archived in .pdf form
Statistics Canada, The Daily (11 September 2020). National balance sheet and financial flow accounts, second quarter 2020 (Report). Archived from the original on 13 September 2020. Retrieved 25 September 2020. Statistics Canada's "The Daily" quarterly reports "National balance sheet and financial flow accounts"
suggestions...

References

Oceanflynn (talk) 17:04, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[oecdd-1] OECD Data. "OECD General government debt". OECD.org.

[oecdf-2] OECD Data. "General government deficit". OECD.org.

[1]

[2]