Talk:Capsaicin/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Capsaicin. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Contradictions found within article

At one point within the article, Capsaicin is described as an effective cancer remedy - Statistical evidence has been quoted in this article and is used to prove that countries with a high capsaicin intake have a lower incidence of cancer - Another example is a reference to studies peroformed on human model mice with induced prostate cancers. Capsaicin was proven to reduce the size of tumor in those mice... Yet, the closing statement of the article links capsaicin to stomach cancer??? Something doesn't make sense.

In the infamous journal "Medical Hypotheses", a paper published in 2002 tried to make a link between spicy food and stomach cancer. It really only established that there are high rates of cancer in the (poor, rural) communities where meals include capsaicin-containing foods. The article seems to overlook that very spicy peppers and hot sauces might be used to cover the taste of cheap and stale food (particularly low-quality beef) in poverty stricken communities. This seems to be such obvious common sense, that some might even suspect a bias against certain ethnic groups for the claims that capsaicin causes cancer. There are four cookeries in the United States that are noted for their high pepper content: Mexican-American, Cajun, white Creole, and black Creole. Each is largely confined to a single ethnic-cultural group which is concentrated in some counties. By use of county population and mortality data, significantly higher rates for stomach and liver cancer were found in counties inhabited by these four ethnic-cultural groups than in matched control countiesMed Hypotheses. 2002 Oct;59(4):450-7. Capsaicin pepper, cancer and ethnicity. Archer VE, Jones DW. "Cuvtixo (talk) 16:30, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

How much capsaicin

How much capsaicin (i.e. from chilis) has to be eaten before ANY endorphins are released? Chiss Boy 18:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Fatal Doses

isin't pure capsaicin enough to kill you?

This is mentioned in the article. "In large quantities, capsaicin can be a lethal poison. Symptoms of overdose include difficulty breathing, blue skin, and convulsions." -- Wapcaplet 18:21, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, but pure capsaicin doesn't necessarily mean that it's deadly, just a large amount of it. If I were to put a small drop of pure capsiacin hot sauce, it should just be extremely painful and really really really hot. I don't know what the Scoville rating was for the hottest thing i've had, but it probably wasn't more than 100,000, and it was extremely hot (I'm no stranger to hot foods, and I was in a great deal of distress for at least five minutes, and even after it hurt like hell). With pure capsaicin being 15-16 million Scoville units, it would be painful, but probably not deadly unless you downed like 100ml of it. Note, though, that this is just my best educated guess. Someone should verify this by getting a culinary expert or a chemist/biochemist to give their two cents. Mk623SC20K 14:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I know capsaicin is used as a pest repellent for, from two-legged to eight-legged pests(Ha Ha). And as Eurekalert says it also tells Prostate Cancer cells to cease reproducing themselves, but I haven't heard of anyone being killed just by eating capsaicin.Sean 20:58, 17 October 2006 (PST)

Toxicological Data on Ingredients: Capsaicin, Natural: ORAL (LD50): Acute: 47.2 mg/kg [Mouse (CAS no. 404-86-4)]. DERMAL (LD50): Acute: >512 mg/kg [Mouse].

The above line is from an MSDS sheet. It also says that serious overexposure can cause death, but calling it a poison is a bit strong, I think. I have edited the main article to reflect this. I have also removed the Indian Infanticide reference, since the only citation I can find on it is on other online encyclopedias (copyvio?). --Mdwyer 04:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Endorphins

I was under the impression that the release of endorphins due to capsaicin exposure was fact, not theory.

Gardenweb

"When your body's nerves feel the pain induced by the chemical on these cells, they immediately start to transmit pain messages to your brain. Your brain receives these signals and responds by automatically releasing endorphins (the body's natural painkiller)."

Chileseeds

"Endorphins are a class of neurotransmitters produced by the body and used internally as a pain killer.

This class of compounds are similar in their action to opiates, attaching to some of the same receptors in the brain. They are a strong analgesic, and give a pervasive sense of happiness. They are proteins, and due to their many different types and their complexity, the release of endorphins lowers the blood pressure. Endorphins are best known to those who exercise a lot, and give rise to what is known as the 'runner's high'. Their release is caused by all pain, including that caused by chiles. Thus a dose of hot chiles will cause the release of these compounds, without any permanent harm."

I've seen this idea in many places, and it is expressed as a well known fact rather than theory. Where would I find information that suggests that it is only a theory?

Currently, the reference for endorphin release bc of capsaicin is a press release for a capsaicin nasal spray. Quick googling didn't turn up anything much better. We should find a source that is better for this claim. 140.247.240.170 00:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed using vodka as solution for burning. Light alcoholic beverages like beer may or may not work, I don't know. Liquors are guaranted to greatly increase the burning sensation - widening blood vessels, making absorption much easier. The amount removed by drinking vodka doesn't nearly make up for the effect caused by alcohol combined with capsaicin. (certain kinds of peppers in Bulgaria are forbidden to be served with alcohol for this very reason.)

In my experience, beer DOES work and is the next best thing to milk. I think the alcohol acts as a solvent. I do not know if hard liquor works though. I would recommend adding beer in if there is a citable source, and if there is controversy over it, mark it as controversial and let the readers decide. -Rolypolyman (talk) 03:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Theoretically, any beverage containing ethanol would help relieve the burning sensation. This is based solely off the fact that capsaicin is very soluble in ethanol. Staying with that idea, hard liquor should work better than beer because there's more ethanol and less water, so it would solvate it better. Beer, in practice, might relieve the pain better by causing a different kind of mild pain from the carbonation, which might distract you from the burning. In reality though, this might not be as effective as the theory sounds. Alcohol burns by itself, so I agree with the first person that it would almost definately make things suck worse for you. Then there's the issue of attraction. Capsaicin has an affinity for the TRPV1 receptor due to the electrostatic and other intermolecular forces drawing them together. Water is polar and capsaicin is nonpolar, so the two aren't attracted enough to pull the cap. off the receptor to stop the burning (remember, like dissolves like). Ethanol is less polar than water, so the attraction between EtOH and cap. is significant enough to remove SOME of the cap. from the receptor. Milk helps the best because the casein contained in dairy acts as a surfactant/detergent, since it has both hydrophilic and -phobic areas. So what happens is the hydrophobic (nonpolar) area on casein attracts capsaicin and pulls it off the receptor, then the hydrophilic area on the casein molecule is drawn to the water in milk, so the whole complex gets washed away. Its the same principle that soap works on. I'm not going to look for a source to prove the beer thing, since its just a theory, but the casein principle is basic biochemistry and should be located pretty easily. As for me, I just keep a gallon jug of water handy and keep drinking til the burning subsides...as long as i'm drinking, i don't feel the pain, lol. peace. Ohnoitsthefuzz (talk) 23:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Question of Wording

I wanted to post discussion about some wording in the article. The phrasng in quwstion is:

produces an illusion of burning in the mouth

I doesn't make too big of a difference to me, otherwise I would have altered it, but I think illusion isn't the appropriate word.

I think a more effective phrasing would be:

produces the sensation of burning in the mouth

I think this is more appropriate because illusion is something I more commonly associate with something visual.

I'm new at this, though ;).

(CloneArmyCommander 06:46, 15 November 2005 (UTC))

I agree with this and chose to change it as you said. (Be WP:BOLD!) And in this context, "illusion" seems to imply that it's convincing enough for people actually think their mouth is on fire, and need to be informed otherwise. (I think that's the point where they've overdone the hot sauce a little.) --Indium 10:35, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

69.160.28.71 04:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC) Hmm, I like the illusion phrasing, because it's clearer to me, but sensation *sounds* better. When you say illusion, I know it's a false sensation. But when you say the sensation of burning - OK, it this sensation because of some neurochemical reaction, and am I not actually being burnt, or am I feeling the sensation of burning because my tongue is getting a chemical burn?

I'd propose adding another line to clarify that no damage is actually occuring.

I think this is a semantics debate over the definition of the word "burning." The TRPV1 receptor is responsible for detecting the signal from both heat above 42 degrees C (about 108 F) and capsaicin. Detection of either sends an action potential from the neuron, which is interpreted as the same thing (with varying intensity). So whether you're being burned by chile peppers or hot coffee, it feels like "burning" no matter what. A hot iron will do the same thing, although it might feel different because of the greater amount of tissue damage. And yes, its true that no tissue damage occurs with capsaicin, unless there's something else to cause it...the feeling is caused by the nerve signal. Hope that helps! Ohnoitsthefuzz (talk) 23:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Internal Inconsistency

Scoville scale states "15 Scoville units is equivalent to one part capsaicin per million." Logically, the maximum value on the scale can then only be 15 * 1 million parts per million = 15.000.000 SCU, no 16 million as the list states. If nobody objects, I'll change the value in the list.

Also see Talk:Scoville_scale#Internal_Inconsistency. --Matthias Bauer 13:10, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

The plot thickens - we seem to have no reliable references to show that 15SU = 1ppm, nor that pure Capsaicin is 16e6SU. Until we have a definite value I'm going to leave this edit war. It is quite plausible that someone made an error somewhere and that error has been copied all over the net.

Also see Talk:Scoville_scale#Pure Capsaicin.

njh 16:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Scoville heat is not measurable precisely enough for the difference between 15 and 16 (or 15million and 16million) to be outside experimental error.129.97.79.144 17:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

drinking milk

To further back up the folk rememdy of drinking milk to alleviate the burning sensation brought on by Capsaicin, here's an interesting website on capsaicin and the other vanilloids:

http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/features/capsaicin.shtml

and here's a germane exerpt:

"One expects that the long hydrocarbon tail will make capsaicin less water soluble than vanillin. This is indeed the case. Capsaicin is insoluble in cold water, but freely soluble in alcohol and vegetable oils... For relief from a chile burn, drink milk. Milk contains casein, a lipophilic (fat-loving) substance that surrounds and washes away the fatty capsaicin molecules in much the same way that soap washes away grease."

It might be good to add something about Casein helping to wash away Capsaicin in the main article. Also, what about a page on the Vanilloids?

Agree about milk. I'm just going to add the quote and reference into the article. I'm surprised this poster didn't. Sometimes when editing articles, you must Be Bold!

Oops just food the mention of milk in food section I'll let it stand as is Cuvtixo (talk) 15:50, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I have heard something about swishing vodka in your mouth and then spiting the vodka out as a posible solution. should this be added along with the drink milk solution? Sanchasmcdude (talk) 04:56, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what happened to the aforementioned bit about milk, but I just added that info to the "food" section with some references. Vodka will help somewhat because capsaicin is soluble in alcohol, but it might just spread it around your mouth. --RedrumRedrum (talk) 01:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Biological reasoning

is Capsaicin as a neural irrtant a way to make fruits of an unriped stage not tasty to animals ? --Procrastinating@^talk2me 00:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

From what I understand, since many animals such as mammals are sensitive to capsaicin and others such as birds are not, it is inferred that the plant has evolved to repel animals that would eat and digest the fruit and seeds, but not the birds that would eat the seeds without digesting them and end up spreading the seeds wherever they excreted them. --Ed (Edgar181) 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I have a question........ does any one know what component (e.g. hidrogen, oxigen, etc.) makes the molecule capsaicin hot?

It's really the overall structure that makes capsaicin hot, rather than individual elements such as hydrogen or oxygen. If you look at the table in the article, you can see that small changes in chemical structure can lead to large changes in Scoville heat units. --Ed (Edgar181) 01:00, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

To clarify the questions asked here, capsaicin is an irritant that is very effective in repelling annoying critters from eating your plants. as far as sensitivity goes, if it was an evolution issue on the part of the pepper plant, it wouldn't have happened quite like that. the plant would have evolved another defense mechanism to repel birds (by means of natural selection...the plant with the mutation that gives them a defense against birds lives, the one without gets eaten), but regardless, birds still have to get through the outside of the pepper to get to the seeds (which they do digest), so they'd be exposed to capsaicin anyway. what's actually the case is that mammals and most other animals have a TRPV1 receptor that has a binding site for capsaicin, so they experience a burning sensation when exposed to it. birds have a gene encoding for this same receptor, except it doesn't have a binding site for capsaicin. this change could be something as simple as one amino acid substitution or removal. it would be more likely that avian species evolved this mechanism because chili peppers were a major food source in their habitat, so the birds that couldn't eat them because of the heat starved to death and couldnt' pass on their genes...nature can be cruel. anyway, the next question about the thing that causes the heat: its correct that the structure of capsaicin is what makes it hot, but thats only because the structure allows the molecule to bind to the TRPV1 receptor on pain sensing neurons, which sends a signal to the brain, which returns a response sensation of burning. mice that have the gene for this receptor "knocked out," or removed, will not experience burning, no matter how much capsaicin you expose them to. if you could create a gene for the TRPV1 receptor so that when the neuron made the receptor, only molecules of vanillin (what gives vanilla its flavor) would activate it, every time you sat down with a pint of haagen-daaz vanilla ice cream, it would set your mouth ablaze. science is fun! and i'm spending way too much time on this page when i should be working! cheers guys, Ohnoitsthefuzz (talk) 00:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Capsaicin high???

Where is the evidence to support this theory? I've never heard of this and couldn't find anything on Google.

From personal experience eating Habanero Chiles, I can tell you that: Yes, eating high-capsaicin containing foods does lead the body to release endorphins thereby giving a "Capsaicin High". (Of course, if your body's not used to Capsaicin you could get a nasty chemical burn on your tongue.) -- User:Sean 20:03, 16 October 2006 (PST)

I would say that in that case, no, you wouldn't get a chemical burn on your tongue - Capsaicin merely creates the sensation of such effects, reproducing the chemical reaction that nerve cells undergo to transmit pain due to heat. Thus, I'd say that while you may not get a chemical burn, you will indeed have a tender tongue, and a lot of pain. Also, I too, from personal experience, enjoy exposing my tastebuds to highly spicy foods, and it does indeed give you what you could term as a 'high'. Of course, this may vary from person to person, and for some things you probably won't find them anywhere on Google. Such as this. 60.234.132.245 09:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I can attest that the high feels very much like that given by opium alkaloids, and as endorphins are just endogenous opioids it doesn't take a great leap of logic to see a connection. The same applies with the similarity of a "capsaicin high" and a "runners high" - both are the result of the same biochemical process. This research shows the effect in rats. This paper discusses the effects more broadly. This page does a similar job, albeit with a more guerilla feel. Finally, this press release brings it down to the lowest common denominator, giving a citable source to the guy on the street for the guy on the street (also explicitly tying in the "runners high" comparison). ◄ИΞШSΜΛЯΞ ► 13:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Heat–time curve?

From personal experience, the heat of different foods over time varries. I'd like to know why. For example, habanero peppers don't hit you instantly, but ramp up to an intense fire. Other spices are hot at first, but then die quickly. Is this due to the mixture of the capsaicinoids, to the physical characteristics of the food (e.g., hydrophobic or containing the spicy chemical in cells), or to something else? —Ben FrantzDale 02:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is due do the percentage of the different capsaicinoids. User:Sean 20:49, 16 October 2006 (PST)

I don't know of any work on time intensity profiles of different capsaicinoids. That said, it is certainly plausible as different TRPV1 agonists like capsaicin, zingerone and piperine have different decay profiles in humans. http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/29/1/53/BJH005F5 Jeh25 (talk) 14:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Spiciness?

I've always wondered - What is the point in having 'spiciness' and 'spicy' redirect to this specific article? While it may have something to do with that, it should probably be noted that there are many different things that can cause the same sensation, and I have found not a place that explains how the sensation is induced because of these chemicals. Should there not be a seperate article named 'Spicy' or somesuch, and the like? I'm kind of new here, so bear with me here. Xander T. 10:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

You have a point. If you were to bite into a garlic clove, most people would call that spicy, but as far as I know there's no capsaicin in garlic. Then again, maybe that garlic feeling is just zingy or zesty or nippy. Or maybe these are all words to describe the same general sensation, I'm not sure.Mk623SC20K 14:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Piperine and zingerone are also spicy, among many other substances. Spicy and Spiciness should definitely not redirect here; I've pointed them at Spice for now. —Keenan Pepper 20:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Sugar?

I have read that sugar is the best remedy for capsaicin, better than dairy. Is this true? If so, should this be added to the article? Look at this site: http://www.theepicentre.com/Spices/chile.html 15:20, 2 Nopvember 2006 (CST)

The burning sensation will go away by itself. Use less pepper next time. Shinobu (talk) 07:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Influence on Diabetes

I removed the text below because it is not very encyclopedic. It needs to be copyedited and the second paragraph needs some citations. --Mdwyer 01:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Suspecting a link between the nerves and diabetes, scientists at a Toronto hospital used an old experimental trick -- injecting capsaicin, the active ingredient in hot chili peppers, to kill the pancreatic sensory nerves in mice that had an equivalent of Type 1 diabetes.Almost immediately, the islets began producing insulin.It turns out the nerves secrete neuropeptides that are instrumental in the proper functioning of the islets.So next they injected the neuropeptide "substance P" in the pancreases of diabetic mice. The results were dramatic.The islet inflammation cleared up and the diabetes was gone. Some have remained in that state for as long as four months, with just one injection. [1]

The researchers SURMISED that the peppers destroyed pancreatic nerve cells. However, since UCLA has reduced the size of tumors 80% with capsaicin, AND tumors have 15 times as much fibrin around them as normal cells AND there is preliminary evidence that protein enzymes could reverse Type 1 diabetes, AND since protein enzymes are able to digest fibrin, THEN the mechanism of action of the capsaicin in diabetes comes into question. It looks like the capsaicin may very well be doing what it does with cancer cells...removes the fibrin.

Biosynthesis of capsaicin

Does anyone know how capsaicin is made in plants? What is the starting material? What enzymes are involved?

Well, as to how Capsaicinoids are made - not a clue - however I remember learning that the nearest naturally occuring chemical compound to Capsaicin is Vanillin. Unfortunately, I don't recall where I read this, otherwise I would add it in the article. Sean 0:15, 7 July 2007 (PST)

OK, I've found the article I was talking about above. It's at The vanilloid receptor and hypertension 72.193.101.189 (talk) 02:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)Sean

Umm. Naturally occurring? Capsaicin is made by plants in the wild so by definition it is 'natural'.Jeh25 (talk) 19:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Eating this stuff...

Would you be able to eat pure capsaicin?

Answer: Without dieing? yes, unless you eat more than 47.2 mg/kg. Without reacting? Probably no, but if you put a teaspoon of the stuff in your mouth, it has to go one of two ways(well actually one of three ways, but blowing pure capsaicin out through your nose is just to painful to think about), so if you've your mind set on it, you could probably swallow it. But you should apply a surface anesthesic ointment to your rectal area before defecating, as the undigested capsaicin will be painful on the thin skin in that area. -- Jackcall 03:24, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Pure cap would severely blister your mouth. Absolutely do not do it. Skopp (Talk) 04:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks guys, I just wanted to know Wether you could or not. ;)

You could theoretically coat it in sugar and then swallow it as a pill. :-) It would be a pretty stupid thing to do though. Shinobu (talk) 07:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Question - Computing concentration for Dermal Application as muscle warming agent

I am an R&D director at a company just getting into OTC pharmaceuticals. Does anyone know how to compute the concentration of capsaicin for use in an external ointment or gel (for purposes of muscle warming) if I am using 14% pure Oleoresin Capsicum. I am assuming that is 14% pure capsaicin and it is straightforward. ChuckChuckmmm2 13:46, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

irritant or inflammatory agent ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray states that capsaicin is an inflammatory agent, not irritant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.87.98.224 (talk) 03:05, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The IPA currently given in the article is not a pronounceable English word. It needs to be amended. — Chameleon 00:52, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Isn't it? I had no trouble and all the sounds appear to be native to English. Could you point out exactly what's wrong according to you? Shinobu (talk) 07:39, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Use as a weightloss porduct?

Is a popular ingredient in "thermogenic" products, ie things meant to increase the metabolisation of bodyfat, such as Thermobol.

Thought there should be some mention of this if there's any literature on its effects as a fat burner.172.201.254.138 11:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

No, don't mention products here please. If you have a scientific reference, that's different. ► RATEL ◄ 13:01, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Ouchy?

An anonymous editor seems to have replaced all instances of the word "burning" with the ord "ouchy". Is that even proper English? I'm not a native speaker, but it sounds like something you'd say to a three year old child. - Tournesol (talk) 19:07, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Obvious juvenile vandalism. Shinobu (talk) 07:11, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Does it kill nerve endings?

According to Skeptics Guide #77 (MP3) capsaicin kills nerve endings. Is this true? If so, what dose would be needed to establish this effect? I haven't been able to confirm the effect personally, so it's probably not a big deal, but because the panel vehemently affirmed it while the article does't even mention it, I can't help but be very curious about it. Shinobu (talk) 07:22, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Nope. not correct.--Alnokta (talk) 12:39, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

It can temporarily disable nerve endings, providing a numbness. Interestingly, capsaicin containing cremes are effective aenesthetics for the sole of the foot, for example. This is a temporary effect, though. 71.184.105.86 (talk) 15:48, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

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Food section and science

It says something like "the scoville scale can be used, but HPLC is preferred." In foods? Yeah, that's bs, nobody uses HPLC in the kitchen. Ever. Also, HPLC does wonders for identification, but does nothing for identifying relative spiciness. I'ma edit that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.66.54.214 (talk) 23:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

An Apparent Inconsistency

In the Chemical Action section the article says that capsaicin causes no damage to tissue at all. Six lines later it says that capsaicin produces conjunctivitis. Doesn't that suggest tissue damage? HHHEB3 (talk) 13:53, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Capsaicin activates pain nerves directly, like a key fitting a lock, and this produces irritation that provokes inflammation. Inflammation is a response by the body to irritation, not actual tissue damage. As noted in the article already, eating aspirin gives the same results as eating red pepper. This suggests minimal or no actual injury to tissue. --Vuo (talk) 15:55, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

How to say it

Will someone record and upload the word "Capsaicin" please?--Alnokta (talk) 12:43, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Isn't it pronounced just like, "cap say sin," with the emphasis on the second syllable? My IPA isn't too good, so I'm not sure if that's what it says in the article. -68.191.214.241 (talk) 20:18, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Capsaicin causing Cancer? Wrong!

Could it be true: chilies are carcinogenic? Might as well go to the source to find out, the country where chilies originated: Mexico. A Mexican study looking at associations between gastric cancers, chili consumption and H pylori infection found no independent association between the chilies and the Hp but a weak association with gastric cancer in heavy chili eaters high-level consumers of CAP (90-250 mg of capsaicin per day, approximately 9-25 jalapeño peppers per day) (OR = 1.71; 95% CI = 0.76-3.88, p=0.026). Capsaicin consumption, Helicobacter pylori positivity and gastric cancer in Mexico. López-Carrillo L, López-Cervantes M, Robles-Díaz G, Ramírez-Espitia A, Mohar-Betancourt A, Meneses-García A, López-Vidal Y, Blair A. Mexico National Institute of Public Health, Cuernavaca, Morelos, Mexico. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=12800206&log$=activity

However there is mounting evidence that chilies may do more good than harm. Spices in general seem to make good candidates according to this recent review: "the potential of turmeric (curcumin), red chilli (capsaicin), cloves (eugenol), ginger (zerumbone), fennel (anethole), kokum (gambogic acid), fenugreek (diosgenin), and black cumin (thymoquinone) in cancer prevention has been established." You don't have to look very hard to find that in fact capsaicin has potential to inhibit the proliferation of cells in endometriosis , inhibit the growth of androgen-independent p53 mutated prostate cells, kill melanoma cells etc... The mechanism seem to included apoptosis, autophagy and ROS generation. From http://bayblab.blogspot.com/2008/10/chili-capsaicin-and-cancer.html Cuvtixo (talk) 15:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

From: University of Pittsburgh Schools of the Health Sciences Dietary Agent In Red Chili Pepper May Help Prevent And Slow Deadly Cancer Washington, D.C., April 4, 2006 “In our study, we discovered that capsaicin fed orally to mice with human pancreatic tumors was an extremely effective inhibitor of the cancer process, inducing apoptosis in cancer cells,” said Sanjay K. Srivastava, Ph.D., lead investigator and assistant professor, department of pharmacology, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. “Capsaicin triggered the cancerous cells to die off and significantly reduced the size of the tumors.” http://www.upmc.com/MediaRelations/NewsReleases/2006/Pages/ChiliPepper.aspx Cuvtixo (talk) 16:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

QX-314

The article Chili Pepper Cocktail Blunts Pain: Scientific American, while interesting, is cited as support for the depletion of presynaptic substance P. Actually, it's about how you can sneak the anaesthetic compound QX-314 through TRPV1 after opening it with Capsaicin. This is itself a fascinating effect, but is it currently used medically? If not, I'm not sure whether it should go in the article or not. Not saying it shouldn't, but not sure either. --Slashme (talk) 10:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

We might have a different section to deal with using capsaicin to open the channel for other anaesthetics. But right now we don't, so I'm going to remove the orphaned reference to post-surgery pain that you left at the end of the second paragraph. ≈≈Carolfrog≈≈♦тос♦ 05:26, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Inhibition of CYP2E1

I recently read that capsaicin would be a mild inhibitor of cytochrome P450 2E1 and that this would likely have some drug interactions. Google search gives some sources on this. Custoo (talk) 07:22, 5 September 2009 (UTC)--

Monkey with Four Asses

Wow is this article a mess.

For instance, the rather incendiary TOXICITY section (which even includes capsaizin's murine LD50) is immediately preceded by the sentence, "Thus, capsaicin does not actually cause a chemical burn, or indeed any damage to tissue at all; it causes only the sensation of one." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.189.34 (talk) 06:06, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll address this, see the misleading statement section I made below.Fireemblem555 (talk) 22:21, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Picture of a chili with capsaicin oil on it.

I was suprised when I cut my chili today to find out I was able to see the oil on the inside, I took a drop and was even more surprised to see it was burning even more than eating a slice of it alone. I wonder if we could have this picture inserted somewhere, I also have the original non-color enhanced if it is prefered. TiCPU (talk) 17:38, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

In your photo, the droplets of pale yellow fluid on the chili's ribs are the "chili oil"? Cwkmail (talk) 03:33, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't say I'm 100% sure but hell, it was seriously strong on the tongue! TiCPU (talk) 03:33, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Bucholz: discoverer of capsaicin

Almost all sources list "P. A. Bucholz" (or "Bucholtz") as the first person to "isolate" [1] the active ingredient of chili peppers, capsaicin. However, those sources are wrong. The first person to extract capsaicin was Christian Friedrich Bucholz. The citation is:

C. F. Bucholz (1816) "Chemische Untersuchung der trockenen reifen spanischen Pfeffers" [Chemical investigation of dry, ripe Spanish peppers], Almanach oder Taschenbuch für Scheidekünstler und Apotheker (Weimar) [Almanac or Pocket-book for Analysts (Chemists) and Apothecaries], vol. 37, pages 1-30.

This article was found (ca. 1999) by a doctoral student, Kurt Lohse, of the Ruhr University at Bochum. His doctoral dissertation is available on-line at: http://www-brs.ub.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/netahtml/HSS/Diss/LohseKurt/diss1.pdf . The citation appears on page 159 of the pdf file, which is page 157 of the original text.

C. F. Bucholz (1770-1818) was an analytical chemist who investigated, among other things, natural products (e.g., vanilla). According to this source (Hugh J. Rose, Henry J. Rose, and Thomas Wright, ed.s, A New General Biographical Dictionary (London, England: 1857), vol. 5, page 186. Available on-line at: http://books.google.com/books?id=nNRySUejNcYC&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186#v=onepage&q&f=false ), Bucholz was the editor of the periodical, Almanach oder Taschenbuch... , in which his article on capsaicin appeared.

Biographical information about C. F. Bucholz is also available (in German) on-line at: http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/ADB:Bucholtz,_Christian_Friedrich .

[1] Actually, Bucholz didn't "isolate" capsaicin; he merely extracted it in impure form.

Several sources claim that also in 1816, "Maurach" (of Vitebsk ?) extracted the active compound in chili peppers. The citation is "Maurach, Berl. Jahrb. 1816. XVII. 63.", which presumably means:

Benjamin Maurach (1816) "Pharmaceutisch-chemische Untersuchung des spanischen Pfeffers," Berlinisches Jahrbuch für die Pharmacie und für die damit verbundenen Wissenschaften, vol. 17, pages 63-73.

Several sources claim that in 1822, Ernst Witting, an apothecary in Höxter on the Weser (River in Germany), isolated capsaicin ("capsicine"). The citation is:

Ernst Witting, "Considerations sur les bases vegetales en general, sous le point de vue pharmaceutique et descriptif de deux substances, la capsicine et la nicotianine," Beiträge für die pharmaceutische und analytische Chemie, vol. 3, pages 43ff (1822).

However, it's doubtful that he isolated pure capsaicin — particularly considering the difficulties that J. C. Thresh encountered before successfully isolating capsaicin in 1876.

Cwkmail (talk) 04:05, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Possibly misleading statement

It is stated in this article that capsaicin does not actually cause burns, but just the sensation of a burn. This is of itself true, but may lead one to think that capsaicin is harmless. Exposure to capsaicin can cause inflammation and redness, which can cause serious damage to tissues. For example if you placed pure capsaicin on your eyeball and didn't remove it, the chemical itself would not burn the eye, but the inflammation reaction could cause serious damage. It is kind of similar to how the body can react to certain harmless allergens, and cause itself harm. See statements within the Capsaicin article about the hazards of Capsaicin as an irritant. Fireemblem555 (talk) 22:14, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Birds eyes

Does Capsaicin irritate the eyes of birds? Ariel. 07:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

No. Birds lack the TRPV1 receptor. This is why mixing cayenne pepper with birdseed works as a squirrel deterrent - the squirrels find it aversive while the birds don't even notice. Jeh25 (talk) 14:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Correction Bird do have sensory receptors in their eyes and can feel the pain from capsaicin. The receptor referred above is not present in their mouth. Just because they don't sense the heat doesn't mean that it is not harmful. Actually, capsaicin can be lethal to birds. Large enough doses can literally kill birds and smaller doses will bring on hypothermia in cold climates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.115.145.8 (talk) 15:35, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Cancer

It has long been noted that in Thailand, where lots of spicy food is consumed, there is very low incidence of gastrointestinal cancers, including colorectal and stomach cancers, compared to the rest of Asia, including Japan and China.[citation needed] Mexico also has low rates of the same cancers compared to the USA.[citation needed]

This is contrary to the chili peppers page where it states that they can cause cancer, would anyone object to me deleting this section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DatDoo (talk • contribs) 00:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

This comment seems to confuse causation, correlation and coincidence, and indeed, should be removed. Maybe Thai just eat less carcinogens than the rest, the causes may be varied, but it's a bald assertion that capsaicin would be the anticarcinogen responsible for the difference. --Vuo (talk) 16:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

All statistics show that in vegetarians' cultures - there is no gastrointestinal cancer! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gift Economy 12 (talk • contribs) 12:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Drug abuse and capsaicin, and anti-cancer properties.

I've been thinking about the paragraph(s) that says that you can deter drug abusers with capsaicin by putting it in the drugs, and about capsaicin having anti-cancer properties. I've been wondering, would using capsaicin to deter drug abusers have another positive affect for normal drug users by potentially preventing cancer? Vandalism destroyer (talk) 04:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

No. There is no evidence I know of that cap. prevents cancer. Otherwise people would be eating peppers like oat bran. And this idea of spiking pills with a pain-inducing poison is INSANE. Sure, everyone wants to punish drug addicts, but say some old lady bites her pill in half on accident? 76.105.183.62 (talk) 08:46, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Agree about spiking pills, Strongly disagree about preventing cancer. For one thing, it may be that large amounts of capsaicin are needed for cancer prevention properties, which would deter people quite a bit. I vaguely remember reading that a steady diet of beef is usually correlated with high cancer rates, especially poorer quality cuts. However, this is part of the traditional diet in northern Mexico (better quality beef is exported), and its been hypothesized that the high-capsaicin peppers that are also part of the diet may mitigate the cancers. In these cases it would probably also be particular cancers, not cancer in general.

University of Pittsburgh Schools of the Health Sciences WASHINGTON, D.C., April 4, 2006 Dietary Agent In Red Chili Pepper May Help Prevent And Slow Deadly Cancer http://www.upmc.com/MediaRelations/NewsReleases/2006/Pages/ChiliPepper.aspx and http://www.upmc.com/MediaRelations/NewsReleases/2006/Pages/ChiliPepper.aspx Cuvtixo (talk) 16:17, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I would also like to add that capsaicin is not only irritating when ingested, but also the next day, when you least expect it. how could capsaicin in meds NOT deter normal drug usage? fool me once.. Balerion87 (talk) 22:01, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Pain relief

As far as I know, aside from food flavoring, the most important use of capsaicin is in topical creams, for pain relief. The brand I use is called "Capsazin." It comes in two concentrations. Capsazin P is .035% capsaicin. Capsazin HP used to be .075%, but recently, the concentration has been increased to 0.1%. I'm told by the pharmacist this is the maximum concentration allowed by the FDA without a prescription. Compounding pharmacies will make ointments in higher concentrations, though I don't know how high they will go. A doctor's prescription is required.

This is an extremely important topic because it's a godsend for people with arthritis. Normally it is used on the hands. It's not widely known, but it's also a near-miraculous remedy for people who suffer garden-variety low back pain. Both my wife and I use it for this purpose. Now I'm using it to remedy hip pain arising from arthritis. Some pain clinics recommend or administer capsaicin cream. It can reduce or eliminate the need for narcotic pain control, aspirin, acetaminophen or NSAIDs in some patients

Proper use of the cream (ointment?) is essential. Otherwise, it's either too painful, or ineffective.

For instance, if I am using it on my low back for the first time, I would cautiously apply a thin layer of the low-potency cream about the size of a small dinner plate in the general area of my low back. I can rub it on with my bare hands, or with a few folds of toilet paper or something. The hands must be washed very carefully, immediately afterward. It's best to use a fingernail brush to get small quantities out from under the fingernails and around the cuticles. Otherwise, accidental contact with the eyes or genitals, for example, might occur many hours later. It's pretty painful. When applying to the low back, it's important to avoid the area of the gluteal cleft (butt crack). Slight contact with the anus is very painful.

Alternately, my wife can apply the cream with a rubber spatula. If handled with care, no face mask or gloves seem necessary.

It's not wise to leave the house before washing the cream off. I normally leave it on for a couple of hours. Sometimes, the burning sensation might become more intense. You want to be near a shower, so you can wash it off. Some cream will rub off the skin onto clothing or furniture. After removal of the cream, clothing that might be contaminated should be washed immediately.

Exact location of the cream seems unimportant. It burns rather intensely for an hour or two, and the skin in the treated area turns bright red. If it's too painful, the cream can be washed off with cool water and soap. After waiting a day, partial desensitization may have occurred, or a smaller area can be treated. I would repeat once a day for three or for days.

After three or four days using the low-potency product, that area of my body becomes desensitized. In my experience, adjacent areas are partly desensitized. No more burning sensation or redness occurs with subsequent applications. In my experience, this degree of desensitization is not sufficient for optimal pain control. The next step is to repeat the process with a more potent product, such as "Capsazin HP" which is 0.1% capsaicin, or some similar product. (I have no association with the Capssazin brand. I use it because it is familiar and convenient.) Once again, after daily applications for three or four days, complete desensitization will occur. No more redness or burning sensation.

In my experience, pain relief occurs within a day or two after desensitization occurs. Benefit, i.e., pain control, seems to persist for a few weeks, and perhaps a month or two.

Although 0.1% is the highest concentration allowed by the FDA for an over the counter product, there is no reason to assume that this concentration will produce optimal pain control. For serious problems with persistent pain, higher concentrations might be more helpful. For instance, Qutenza brand dermal patches contain an 8% concentration. The manufacturer claims that a one-hour application can relieve persistent pain from shingles for as long as three months. (This product must be applied in a doctor's office, with a local anesthetic.)

Obviously, it's a hassle and somewhat uncomfortable to use capsaicin cream. However, persistent pain is such an unpleasant and relentless experience that the discomfort and inconvenience might seem a small price to pay in exchange for pain relief. My wife and I have come to associate the burning sensation with subsequent pain relief. As the burning sensation becomes familiar, it is much less bothersome, and might be experienced as oddly pleasurable.

I think this article should mention whether substance P is depleted in the skin or in the spinal cord. To my knowledge, it occurs in the spinal cord. If only cutaneous pain receptors were affected, one wouldn't expect underlying arthritis pain to be alleviated.

Some of the foregoing comments can be found on the package insert for Capsazin brand cream, or other similar products.

I'm not an expert on this area. I think much of the foregoing is supported by published scientific literature, but I don't know this literature well. Citing these assertions properly is rather a big job. Pubmed returns about 10,000 hits for capsaicin. Capsaicin + pain is more manageable. I hope some other author might be able to find supporting citations and add some of this content to the article. The Qutenza website might offer some supporting citations. The manufacturer of Capsazin brand cream, the most popular branded product, to my knowledge, does not have a website. 68.127.238.149 (talk) 19:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Capsaicin, the stuff that gives chili peppers their kick, may cause weight loss and fight fat buildup by triggering certain beneficial protein changes in the body, according to a new study on the topic. The report, which could lead to new treatments for obesity, appears in ACS' monthly Journal of Proteome Research.

Jong Won Yun and colleagues point out that obesity is a major public health threat worldwide, linked to diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, and other health problems. Laboratory studies have hinted that capsaicin may help fight obesity by decreasing calorie intake, shrinking fat tissue, and lowering fat levels in the blood. Nobody, however, knows exactly how capsaicin might trigger such beneficial effects.

In an effort to find out, the scientists fed high-fat diets with or without capsaicin to lab rats used to study obesity. The capsaicin-treated rats lost 8 percent of their body weight and showed changes in levels of at least 20 key proteins found in fat. The altered proteins work to break down fats. "These changes provide valuable new molecular insights into the mechanism of the antiobesity effects of capsaicin," the scientists say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.41.21.1 (talk) 13:33, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Use of salt to kill capsaicin pain

I have personally found that a small amount of salt (just cover the bowl of a teaspoon) immediately arrests the pain from hot peppers/spicy foods. I never found milk to give as a fast a relief as I wanted. I have shared my solution with quite a few people who have found the same result.

I understand that hydrophobic capsaicin is able to bond to the fat in the milk so this alleviates some pain. However, and I admit this is only theory, I wonder if my solution does not take an entirely different approach to the problem? instead of trying to neutralize the capsaicin, I theorize that salt, being highly water-soluable reacts quickly over the tongues' surface area leaving little area for the capsaicin to react/burn.

Does this sound like a legit theory? If not, why does salt work so well? I am open to suggestions. One other avenue of thought that I have not looked into is that maybe the salt interacts with the capsaicin, I just have not taken the time to look into this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lbrewer42 (talk • contribs) 12:32, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Excellent article

Folks.. this is a great article! Especially I like the objectivity on scientific controversy of cangerogenic/anti-tumor ... effects! Bravo! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gift Economy 12 (talk • contribs) 12:07, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Surely it should be chilli peppers throughtout this article? Not Chile!

Yeah, that's correct, Chile is the country. I have a question as well - can eating chillies cause intestinal pain, or was that just me suffering food poisoning? 80.43.29.109 17:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

No, the term chilli denotes Chilli con Carne (Chile with Meat) or the mystery spice mixture used therein. Although Chile is a country, chile (e with accent grav) denotes the berries of any plant in the genus Capsicum.Sean 21:25, 16 October 2006 (PST) and 20:43, 17 October 2006 (PST)

There are any number of reasons you could have gotten intestinal pain. For medical advice, please refer to your general practitioner. Shinobu (talk) 07:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Chile, the word in Spanish for chili peppers, derives from the nahuatl sili. It is unclear why the exact same word was used to name the south american country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.69.125.151 (talk) 20:24, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Who was "Thresh" ? Who re-discovered capsaicin and when ?

Many reputable sources claim that "L. T. Thresh" discovered capsaicin in 1846 after C. F. Bucholz discovered it in 1816. The citation is:

L. T. Thresh (1846) "Isolation of capsaicin," Pharmacy Journal, vol. 6, pages 941-942.

However, after further research to determine who "L. T. Thresh" was -- "Thresh" is also listed in some sources as "Thomas Thresh" or "C. F. Thresh" and even as a doctor in India -- I have found evidence that capsaicin was actually re-discovered by John Clough Thresh (1850-1932, an English chemist, pharmacist, geologist, physician, and public health offical) in 1876 -- NOT 1846. The most frequent citation for J. C. Thresh is:

"Capsaicin, the active principle in Capsicum fruits" The Pharmaceutical Journal and Transactions, 3rd series, vol. 7, no. 315, page 21 (8 July 1876).

Some sources cite an earlier article by J. C. Thresh:

"Isolation of capsaicin" The Pharmaceutical Journal and Transactions, 3rd series, vol. 6, pages 941-947 (1876).

So the "Pharmacy Journal" of the L. T. Thresh citation is probably "The Pharmaceutical Journal and Transactions".

I suspect that the many citations which state that "L. T. Thresh" re-discovered capsaicin in 1846 were based on one erroneous original citation, which has been copied again and again throughout the literature. Apparently few people ever bothered to try to find the original article. Cwkmail (talk) 08:01, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about the latest flurry of revisions to the "History" section of this article; however, I've done additional research on the subject, and (as usual) I've found that the information in many references is incorrect. British chemist/physician John C. Thresh did try to isolate capsaicin; however, the melting point that he observed for capsaicin was below the currently accepted melting point, so his sample was impure. Furthermore, his empirical formula for capsaicin was wrong: he failed to detect the presence of nitrogen in capsaicin. Austrian Karl Micko recorded a melting point for capsaicin that was consistent with the accepted value, so his sample was almost certainly chemically pure; however, his empirical formula for capsaicin was also (slightly) wrong (one extra hydrogen atom). Nelson determined the correct empirical formula for capsaicin, but couldn't completely determine its structure. It wasn't until 1930 that Spath and Darling finally determined capsaicin's structure. So progress in understanding capsaicin has been gradual -- limited by the chemical techniques and technology that was available.--Cwkmail (talk) 18:34, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Sensitivity

Is there a reason that one's mouth, skin, eyes, etc, will burn.. and later on, one's anus.. but nowhere in between in the GI tract? Does it require air to activate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 00:27, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

It's likely related to the lack of the specific neuron activated by the chemical. We don't have a need for, and also do not have heat sensors in most of our GI tract. --Puellanivis (talk) 06:12, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

tumorigenic vs. Carcinigenic

The article claims

Carcinogenic, co-carcinogenic, anticarcinogenic, antitumorigenic, tumor promotion, and anti-tumor promotion effects of capsaicin have been reported in animal studies

can someone explain the difference between anticarcinogenic and antitumorigenic or tumor promotion and Carcinogenic. It seems like a lot of these words are saying the same thing, for example tumorigenic links to the same place as Carcinogenic with no explanation of the difference on the page. Wouldn't the following sentence be less redundant

"Carcinogenic, co-carcinogenic, anticarcinogenic effects of capsaicin have been reported in animal studies." --MATThematical (talk) 19:36, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Sinus Buster Merge Proposal

I'm proposing that Sinus Buster be re-directed to capsaicin nasal spray which should be re-directed here. I was going to improve the article, but there are no secondary sources in pubmed. I plan on writing a little blurb with citations to some of the primary sources, calling it an experimental treatment that's available OTC. Comments? Rknight (talk) 07:30, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Can you explain why this idea is anything other than spam posing as nonsense? Firefight (talk) 17:08, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Sinus Buster seems to be a separate product made from capsaicin and has no immediate relation to capsaicin itself(even though I have never seen it before). Hence it should not be merged with the article capsaicin.inyrface (talk) 15:35, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

There are news sources: [2] -- filter out the press releases, but you'll find a few, like this one: [3]. This may be at the margin of notability, but I wouldn't jump the gun and merge into that product. I think it would be more relevant on a page on nasal sprays for sinus problems, than on the page for capsaicin. Perhaps it deserves a brief mention both places though, if we decide it's not notable enough for its own page. But I'm seeing enough sources that I'm open to the possibility that it actually is notable. Cazort (talk) 00:14, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Given that this is one of a number of similar products, and (?) only available in the US (this is an international site, after all), it would be worth a one-link mention in the "medical" section at the most. This appears at first glance to be a case of someone using the merge function to create an advert. Huseyx2 (talk) 11:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Drug interactions

Capsaicin is indicated as interacting with a number of drugs, including the commonly prescribed high-blood pressure drug Lisinopril, to induce a side-effect cough.

 This wording is confusing; it seems to imply that the cough is a desired result. Is 'produce a side-effect cough' more accurate?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.229.217.188 (talk) 19:30, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

A serious bias

I just wanted to know how much capsaicin 100 grams of Chilli pepper contains, but found no info about this here. Mazarin07 (talk) 21:39, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

It varies widely among different varieties of peppers as well as different individual peppers within any variety. There are chili peppers with very little to zero capsaicin, and there are some with enough that a tiny nibble will cause significant pain. I hope this information is helpful. FWIW I don't see any evidence of bias in the article as of today's date, and I don't understand how lack of information concerning the amount of capsaicin in a particular pepper might indicate bias.

Medical Uses Section Is a Disaster

This section has some serious correctness issues. Most of it bases its discussion on the belief that capsaicin somehow causes the release of Substance P. In fact, capsaicin works because it leads to the depletion of substance P (substance P is involved in the transmission of pain). That is why capsaicin works as a pain reliever. The research articles it cites are all related to the effects of injecting/stimulating more substance P to prevent diabetes etc... These are valid studies but this is not related to the topic of the article (capsaicin) as capsaicin does the opposite. comment added by BYS2 (talk • contribs) 15:06, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Capsaicin as a drug

Nonsense/trolling

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hillary Clinton likes to eat hot chili peppers with capsaicin in them to get high. Mexicans will eat hot chili peppers to get high. The article briefly mentions the euphoric effects of hot chili peppers but I think a whole section on the euphoric effects of chili peppers is needed considering the widespread use of chili peppers as a drug. Anybody care to do the research with the appropriate RS for inclusion in the article? 50.202.81.2 (talk) 15:22, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Capsaicin mechanism causing runny nose?

I've looked around, and maybe I'm missing something! Is there an exact mechanism how capsaicin or spicy food cause runny nose?!

Thanks. Roomstop (talk) 12:20, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

"effects of dietary consumption" has misread ref55 on HP in mexico

the section regarding "effects of dietary consumption" has completely misread reference 55 - López-Carrillo "Capsaicin consumption, Helicobacter pylori positivity and gastric cancer in Mexico"

that article does not say that the capsaicin increased gastric cancer merely due to helicobacter pylori

if you read the article, it says that even when they controlled for the fact that HP causes cancer, they still found that capsaicin causes cancer independently of HP

I am going to change the article, but I invite comment Mainperson (talk) 12:37, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Deterrent vs. repellent

"[...] deterrents against certain mammals and fungi"

Can you deter fungus? Doesn't it need to be called a "repellent"?? --178.197.227.86 (talk) 15:28, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I think in the sentence you quoted it's a deterrent because stops repeated consumption of the plant, as opposed to when you sprinkle chili powder in your garden to keep the deer away. There's nothing stopping them from taking the first bite, but they'll regret it. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:00, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Information request: Fate of oral capsaicin

When swallowed, how much capsaicin passes from the gut to the bloodstream, and what happens to the rest? Destroyed by stomach acid or other digestive juices? If it passes into the blood stream, is it metabolized by the liver? How much ends up in urine and stool? Inquiring minds want to know. 108.219.39.17 (talk) 01:48, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

My understanding is that it's not absorbed into the blood stream at all nor is it metabolized, but I've changed the section header to get people's attention who might know more than I. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:58, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Not all of it metabolizes, and at least some of it is eliminated in the stool. That's the idea behind the saying that some foods "burn twice." horsedreamer 19:51, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Treatment after exposure - bleach

Chlorine Bleach is very effective at removing capsaicin from skin. The article is incorrect in stating that this is not the case. It is not recommended on a regular basis, due to possibly deleterious effects on the skin, but if discomfort is severe, relief is almost immediate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.68.80.10 (talk) 22:58, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Reliable sources, please. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:36, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Try it and see for yourself. I have. The logic behind this is that chlorine binds with capcaicin to form a water soluble salt, which is then easily removed. Too, a simple search will reveal testimony many others with intimate knowledge of chilli handling who use this method successfully. See also the article "The taming of capsaicin. Reversal of the vanilloid activity of N-acylvanillamines by aromatic iodination" (J Med Chem. 2005 Jul 14;48(14):4663-9.) which mentions the effect (albeit with the acknowledgement that iodine and bromine are more effective).

Okay, first of all, I'm not pouring bleach on myself. Second of all, Wikipedia only cares what reliable sources say. If the only source is a single, first run research paper (i.e., not a review paper), that won't meet the strict requirements we have for sources for medical information. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:38, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

A hint: just put your arm exposed to capsaicin into cold water. Btw, I'm also not puring capsaicin on myself...but I'd have less problems with bleach since common bleaching solutions need minutes to react with your skin. --178.197.227.86 (talk) 15:37, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

On one hand, that sounds likely, but one ponders that capsaicin has time to irritate the stomach enough to produce additional gastric acid in an already HCL rich environment. Still, reaction time, mixing and exposure to HCL time, etc makes it something interesting to study.Wzrd1 (talk) 07:53, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

How is capsaicin metabolized?

I ate a lot of jalapeño peppers for a while, soon after this, my prostate and urethra began to burn. Now, anytime after I eat any hot ( capsaicin) foods, it starts to burn down there for a day or two. I can't find any other person who has ever experienced this reaction to capsaicin and my doctor would just think I'm crazy. I personally believe that the enzyme responsible for breaking down the capsaicin has been depleted in my body due to my sudden excessive intake of jalapeño peppers. Any information if you can find it would be great. I want to fix my pancreas or liver, or enzymes so I don't have to burn in my special place every time I eat capsaicin containing foods. 104.235.185.182 (talk) 10:03, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Although your point is raised from a singular, personal experience, making it somewhat selective and likely unique to a minority of high-pepper consumers, it has value in pointing out a weakness in the article because the in vivo metabolism and fate of consuming capsaicin are not sufficiently addressed. So, thanks for raising this. I suspect there isn't better discussion in the article because nearly all of the metabolic work has been in vitro and in lab animals, as shown here, where it is stated "Rats fed 0.5 g/kg day-1 crude Capsicum Fruit Extract for 60 days exhibited no significant gross pathology at necropsy, but slight hyperemia of the liver and reddening of the gastric mucosa were observed. Weanling rats fed basal diets supplemented with whole red pepper at concentrations up to 5.0% for up to 8 weeks had no pathology of the large intestines, livers, and kidneys, but destruction of the taste buds and keratinization and erosion of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract were noted in groups fed 0.5% to 5.0% red pepper. The results of 9-and 12-month extension of this study showed normal large intestines and kidneys." Simply, high chronic pepper intake caused no major organ damage except in the mouth and esophagus.

This general article discusses the enzyme systems responsible for capsaicin metabolism, cytochrome P450, which are not likely to be depleted if you are generally healthy without a liver disorder (the Conclusion of that article is a good summary). In humans, high consumption is shown as 25-200 mg/day in Mexico and India where there may be a resultant increased cancer risk in vulnerable organs such as the upper digestive tract, whereas typical European intake of 1.5 mg/day had no effect on risk, according to this European Commission report. The University of Maryland has this general consumer guide. I doubt your apparent prostate and urethra sensitivity is irreversible, correctable by eating fewer meals with excessive capsaicin seasoning. Good luck. --Zefr (talk) 17:20, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

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Stomach cancer link

The article needs major attention vis a vis this longstanding (decades) medical controversy. Lewis Goudy (talk) 17:13, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Not clear what you are inferring, Lewis Goudy. Perhaps you could draft a statement with source to state what you mean for the article. The content and sources under Research and pharmaceutical use are accurate and up to date per WP:MEDRS. Please read this if you are suggesting that capsaicin is an anti-cancer compound. There may be more recent literature so I will check that and possibly revise. --Zefr (talk) 18:09, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

There have been epidemiological studies suggesting that capsaicin is carcinogenic (stomach and gall bladder). eg http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12208187 Some suggest that contaminants such as aflatoxin are involved. This is the study that raised the issue: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/139/3/263.short Lewis Goudy (talk) 13:39, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

we need a literature review or a statement by a major governmental/scientific authority to add that - please see WP:MEDRS Jytdog (talk) 21:29, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:35, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Ok, but duplicate in EL. --Zefr (talk) 20:27, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Weight loss efficacy

I'm not sure the claim that there is no evidence relating capsaicin intake to weight loss is up to Wiki's standards. The claim is based on lack of evidence, but it uses an 11 year old source. A more recent review from 2014, linked below, claims that there is evidence suggesting a link between capsaicin intake and weight loss.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195666313004492?via%3Dihub — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.187.150.44 (talk) 23:03, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

That is PMID 24246368; it is an update. It suggets that there may be an effect, and has a lot of caveats. I will update. Thanks for bringing the ref. Jytdog (talk) 23:56, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Vanillylamine or Vanillamine?

I am not sure that the term Vanillamine exists. The proper term is Vanillylamine. --kupirijo (talk) 20:38, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sc2292.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:44, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

inconsistent information

From the acticle: "Thus, capsaicin does not actually cause . . . .any direct tissue damage at all, when chili peppers are the source of exposure. . . . . In essence, the body inflames tissues as if it has undergone a burn or abrasion and the resulting inflammation can cause tissue damage in cases of extreme exposure, . . . ." Which is it? Can it cause tissue damage or not? If it excites the body to cause damage by secondary channels, it is still causal to that damage. 2603:7080:7440:66:4148:717B:C311:D6D7 (talk) 20:55, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

It is not inconsistent. The human body reacts to capsaicin with inflammation, which then causes damage. The capsaicin itself doesn't cause the damage, it doesn't burn. If you were to place capsaicin on a dead enough corpse, enough hours from death, it wouldn't result in damage. The damage is an indirect effect. ---Lilach5 (לילך5) discuss 21:34, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Capsaicin reversibly damages tight junctions

"Leaky gut", see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6337111/ -- SCIdude (talk) 16:57, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

In vitro research with doses far higher than would be consumed in a meal, and published in an unreliable MDPI journal suspected of predatory publishing practices - listed on WP:CITEWATCH. Unusable as a source. Zefr (talk) 17:02, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Not so fast, even paper mill bashing can be wrong without looking deeper:

They use that effect for delivering drugs, too. -- SCIdude (talk) 17:25, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Lab research, WP:MEDINVITRO. We don't use such studies to support encyclopedic content, especially if it implies physiological or pathological effects, which have high standards for verifiability. That's what WP:MEDRS is all about. Read it. Zefr (talk) 18:39, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

The review I gave first is a secondary source from a non-paper mill journal satisfying WP:MEDRS, which you chose to ignore because of one of the references. Your handling of the matter is highly questionable. -- SCIdude (talk) 10:01, 1 June 2023 (UTC)