Talk:Cathays Park

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United Nations' Peace Garden and its memorials between The Temple of Peace and North Road not described

I was just dropping in to pick up a link to reference a piece of writing contrasting Alexandria Gardens' war memorials with The Peace Garden's peace memorials - but there is no mention of the latter here - ?DaiSaw (talk) 10:46, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

3rd Marquess of Bute

The History section rightly indicates that the area owes much to the 3rd Marquess, although I think the Pettigrews deserve a mention which I shall add shortly. But I’m not sure the description of Bute as “an extremely successful and wealthy businessman” is quite accurate. It may well serve as a description of his father, but the 3rd Marquess was rather better at spending than making money. The management of his estates was undertaken by others, while Bute poured the profits into supporting his myriad interests, in architecture, gardening, archaeology, travel etc. I shall tweak shortly unless there are any concerns. KJP1 (talk) 12:11, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. KJP1 (talk) 12:04, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

20th/21st centuries

I'm wondering if the History section would benefit from a bit of updating as to the later 20th/21st century developments? I'm thinking mainly of Hilling, who is quite critical. He attacks the developments to the north as spoiling the skyline; the removal of trees and the use of inappropriate paving; the random siting of the memorials; and he really hates the council allowing the funfair in front of the City Hall, "a visual blight for more than 4 months each year". It would also allow for the weaving in of one of the few wider criticisms I've found of the whole concept; Ian Nairn's, "a stone zoo, one weary neo-classical hulk after another, lumped together on an alien grid... an utterly alien model for urban improvement"! Hilling is more restrained in his later The Architecture of Wales which also contains some good pickings.

Any thoughts/views? I will try and work something up over the next few days. KJP1 (talk) 11:11, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~p.s. Given I've now used Black Gold, White City in the Gardens section, should it come out of Further reading?~~ KJP1 (talk) 11:13, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now attempted. Hope it meets with approval. Very happy to discuss any concerns. Flagging another issue below. KJP1 (talk) 13:46, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@KJP1: Apologies for coming to this rather belatedly after your ping at WT:WALES. Good work on this page! Did you know that Historic England brought out a book about Edwin Rickards last year? That may have some good, quotable stuff in it, as most writers consider the City Hall and Law Courts to be the highlights of Cathays Park. I'm afraid my books on this subject, which include both of Hilling's recent books, are scattered across two locations.

There's a more complete list of sculptures at List of public art in Cardiff § Cathays Park, although that's still missing the ones below, for which I haven't been able to find sources. Ham II (talk) 17:18, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ham II - Good to see you! I take absolutely no credit, all the work’s been done by Seth Whales. You’re right, it has become a great page. Which is only appropriate for the finest civic centre in the British Isles! And thanks very much for the link and the images - the link in particular is great and definitely needs to go in as a See also. I wonder if there’s an FAC in here? I also agree about a map - an editor did me a superb one for Hearst Castle, I wonder if I dare ask again. Take care and all the best. KJP1 (talk) 18:00, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This mystery figure on the university's Main Building
The Labours by Frederick Brook Hitch, Cardiff University Main Building
Lord Aberdare's coat of arms, Cardiff University Main Building
Putto on a dolphin by Albert Hodge at the back of the Glamorgan Building
Putto on a goat by Albert Hodge at the back of the Glamorgan Building

Images

Two thoughts re. the images, which are generally great:

Lead image - there's much in its favour, as the only aerial shot we have and one that gives a good idea of CP's layout. But it is rather dark! And for me it doesn't quite convey the grandeur of the setting. Thoughts? Any alternatives? KJP1 (talk) 13:46, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If someone could trace the the maps on Coflein, e.g. here, a labelled map of the buildings would be quite something... Ham II (talk) 17:18, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a map on https://archive.org/details/cathayspark1983/page/n39/mode/2up from the Special Collections and Archives, Cardiff University. There are also other images on https://archive.org/search?query=civic+centre%2C+Cardiff and https://archive.org/search?query=cathays+park%2C+Cardiff which are all Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license that could be used, although they are either old black & white or just parts of Cathays Park in colour. SethWhales^talk 09:47, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Images in the Gardens section - For me the positioning of these is a little 'clashing'. Would the six images fit better in a Gallery, following the example of Memorial stones further down the page? KJP1 (talk) 13:46, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I fully agree. Ham II (talk) 17:18, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The tree of life images are in my opinion unnecessary. However, I think a sentence or two of text on Parc Mackenzie would be helpful, although probably not yet another image, such as File:Parc Mackenzie (2) 01.jpg etc. SethWhales^talk 09:47, 23 August 2024 (UTC).[reply]

A problem with articles like this is that many editors cannot resist adding, just one more, favourite image. I spend a lot of time trying to keep the Gothic Revival architecture galleries in check. It's rather like John Hilling's criticism of the random and incoherent placing of memorials in Cathays! Anyways, I've trimmed these two. KJP1 (talk) 10:11, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now done a couple of lines on Parc Mackenzie. In order to avoid a proliferation of sub-headings with short attached para.s, I've combine Friary Gardens, Queen Anne Square and the Parc. Fine with them being split out, if that's preferred. KJP1 (talk) 10:39, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hut and public conveniences

I wonder if it would be possible to scrape together sufficient sourcing for a standalone article on the hut and the public conveniences?<ref>{{Cadw|num=21641|desc=Hut in Gorsedd Gardens|grade=II|access-date=23 August 2023}}</ref><ref>{{Cadw|num=21670|desc=Public conveniences|grade=II|access-date=23 August 2023}}</ref> The loos look in a very poor state, as of 2022, [1]! How did CCC let a listed building get into such a condition. Has anything come of the conversion plans? KJP1 (talk) 11:31, 23 August 2024 (UTC) [reply]

~~This says planning permission was granted in March of this year. So, I'm guessing nothing's happened on the ground yet. KJP1 (talk) 11:35, 23 August 2024 (UTC)~~[reply]

I think probably not, so have woven mentions into the Friary Gardens section. KJP1 (talk) 12:36, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Random, but useful, sourcing

CCC planning document

KJP1 (talk) 12:02, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lampstands

Purely out of interest, do those lampstands ever actually operate? Is there some automated lighting system? The fittings look more like mini-fire pits than lamps, and I find it hard to believe the City Council is able to afford the necessary lamplighters? I can't ever recall seeing them in operation. KJP1 (talk) 09:52, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, I can't ever recall seeing them in operation either. SethWhales^talk 07:32, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]