Talk:Ceann Comhairle

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IPA note

Strictly speaking you can have [kʲaːn̪ˠ ˈkˠorʎə] where the r is trilled, but the o is short, or [kʲaːn̪ˠ ˈkˠoːɾʎə] where the r is tapped, and the vowel is long

According to the article Irish phonology, neither [kʲ] nor [ʎ] are Irish phonemes. The proper slender (palatalized) "c" and "l" are realized as [c] and [lʲ] respectively. Also shouldn't [kˠ] be [k]? If so the IPA notation should be [caːn̪ˠ ˈkorlʲə] should it not? Can someone with more command of the Irish language confirm this? --24.141.208.19 08:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed request for audio pronunciation tag and uploaded audio Joe byrne (talk) 16:34, 24 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

O'Hanlon

O'Hanlon having been re-elected unopposed, and then replaced as Ceann Comhairle, does he revert to being a FF TD, or resign from the Dail, or sit as an independent? Intelligent Mr Toad 12:09, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly

The name Cheann Comhairle is also used in Irish for "Mr Speaker" in the Northern Ireland Assembly. I am not sure how encyclopedic that is, nor how relevant it is to the main topic of the article, so I am not sure whether to add it to the article. It can be found most days in Hansard: http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/record/hansard.htm , but Hansard is a primary source. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 14:12, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ceann Comhairle...

is a title and shouldn't require a "request for image". The request should be only listed under current or past holders of the title. Jaqian (talk) 13:14, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Ceann Comhairle does wear a ceremonial robe, so an image of him presiding would be appropriate. However, it is unlikely that a CC/GFDL image could be uploaded, unless someone is willing to try smuggling a camera into the public gallery. Does he ever wear his regalia outside the chamber? jnestorius^(talk) 11:34, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Plural

With my limited Irish, I would understand Cinn Chomhairle to mean "heads of the council" i.e consecutive heads for the same council. Cinn Comhairlí, as I understand it, would be "heads of the councils" i.e. multiple councils, each with a head. Can anybody with good Irish set me right on this one? PS I am not the IP, it's just that the edit piqued my intersst. Scolaire (talk) 23:45, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cinn Chomhairle is the correct plural. Snappy (talk) 10:24, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are mistaken, Snappy. "cinn comhairle" site:historical-debates.oireachtas.ie gives seven hits, all in English; "cinn chomhairle" site:historical-debates.oireachtas.ie gives one hit, which appears to be genitive singular rather than nominative plural ("céad dualgas Cinn Chomhairle"). Annoyingly, focal.ie doesn't give inflections. However, Bunreacht na hÉireann: a study of the Irish text p.213 says:

It is not customary to inflect ‘ceann’ in this phrase – ‘an Ceann Comhairle’ becomes ‘an Cheann Comhairle’ in the genitive singular whereas if the normal grammatical rules were followed, ‘an ceann’ would become ‘an chinn’ in the genitive. See Jim O’Donnell and Seán de Fréine, Ciste Cúrsaí Reatha, p. 251, who state (I translate):

Because ‘ceann’ has not a literal meaning here, no change is made to it in cases such as: ‘A Cheann Comhairle’ (when he is addressed); similarly, the title of his office is ‘Oifig an Cheann Comhairle’. The form ‘Cinn Comhairle’ should never be used. The same practice is followed in the case of other words when a literal meaning is not involved. For example, ‘stór’ means wealth, but when used as a term of affection or love, literal use is not involved. Therefore, ‘a stór’ is said, as is done in the case of the Ceann Comhairle. ‘A phobal’ or ‘A Phobal Dé’ is the correct way to address people at Mass or at another religious ceremony.

What does the sentence The form ‘Cinn Comhairle’ should never be used mean; does it refer to the plural or the genitive? I am interested in this because I was about to propose moving Category:Presiding officers of Dáil Éireann to Category:Cinn Comhairle, but realised I didn't know what the correct plural was. jnestorius^(talk) 11:31, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not 100% sure what the plural is. I would however oppose moving residing officers of Dáil Éireann cat to an Irish language name because this is en.wikipedia not Vicipeid and the plural form (whatever it is), is obscure and rarely if ever used. Snappy (talk) 15:30, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It makes sense to have the category name matching the main article. It's no different from Category:Taoisigh of Ireland or Category:Tánaistí of Ireland (moved from Tánaistithe in 2007). When I first saw the name I wondered if the circumlocutory name "presiding officers" was chosen because term "Ceann Comhairle" had not been applied prior to 1937, but it was not so. The plural form is rarely used because there is rarely a need to refer to more than one Ceann Comhairle. By the same token Category:Attorneys General of Ireland is not called Category:Attorney Generals of Ireland even though the plural is rarely used and many people would be unsure of it; the people who need to know use a certain form and Wikipedia can do so too. jnestorius^(talk) 17:49, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Presiding officers of Dáil Éireann is better because it can be read by all English speaking wikipedians, and even if they don't know what Dáil Éireann is, they can understand what the category is about. Cinn Comhairlí wouldn't be understand by most Irish people (even with 14 years of Irish language education), its too obscure and too unreadable. Basically, I object to irregular Irish language plurals on the English language wikipedia, but I'll let Taoisigh and Tánaistí go!Snappy (talk) 22:15, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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