Talk:Central Plains War

A fact from Central Plains War appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 27 July 2006. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Battle of Central Plains (prominent combatants pictured), fought in Republican China from 1929 to 1930, involved more than one million troops?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2006/July.

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English name usage[edit]

I am not sure about the English name for this battle.. I searched over and over again, but couldn't find the official name. So I'll just use "Battle of Central Plains" as it makes the most sense.

--AQu01rius 23:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

AQu01rius I will look this over. I see the article on the subject on the Chinese Wikipedia. Interesting name they have "Area south of Yellow River war". :^) Kinda clunky, I like yours better.Asiaticus 03:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I am putting some suggestions in [brakets] for you to decide onAsiaticus 07:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot =)!! --AQu01rius 16:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't "Central Plains War" be a better English translation of 中原大戰? The conflict was a four-month war, not a single battle. It's hard to find English sources that name the conflict at all but Hsi-sheng Ch'i's Nationalist China at War uses Central Plains War. AjaxSmack 18:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That would be better I guess. Wait for more opinions though.

--AQu01rius 20:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I think Central Plains War is more accurate as it was composed of several battles.Asiaticus 08:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

yeah it was a civil war not just a battle. I support the move. BlueShirts 22:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It should be "the most common name" according to the naming conventions. Open up some history books in English and see what is done. --Jiang 10:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that this subject is not dealt with in much detail in English sources. I perused several books on the Republican period and only one, Hsi-sheng Ch'i's Nationalist China at War, mentioned the conflict by name using "Central Plains War." ABC-Clio gave one result for "Central Plains War" and none for "Battle of Central Plains." JSTOR yielded no results for either "Central Plains War" or "Battle of Central Plains." Google Books also yields no results for either. Most sources that refer to this war simply recount the events without specifically naming the war (e.g., Eastman, et al. The Nationalist Era in China: 1927-1949 or Chiang Kai-shek's China's Destiny.)

Based on the Ch'i citation, the ABC-Clio result, and the fact that it is the closest translation of 中原大戰, Central Plains War seems to be preferable. - AjaxSmack 05:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

yup, I purposed article transfer.. I accidentally created a page on Central Plains War, and now I can't move this page myself, argh.

--AQu01rius 05:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

War of the Central Plains seems to create the most hits (3) on google books--Jiang 06:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Link to other pages[edit]

This should probably be linked into the Nanjing Decade (1928-1937) section of History of the Republic of China expanding it to explain this conflict and resultsAsiaticus 08:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1929: 1930: August 13 - November 26[edit]

I have a feeling when that the original creator of this page took all this work but overlooked to change the parameters of the infobox, which seems taken from Battle of Shanghai then changed. August 13 - November 26 is the start and end dates for that battle! What are the start and end dates? June 25 - September 18? Is it 1930, or 1929-1930, according to what was changed at WP:DYK? [1]

Also, a few other questions: how is it possible to "annex troops"? This seems like quite a complex affair, to get troops to change loyalties especially if they had been fighting against each other for a thing like warlordism. Perhaps some elaboration can be given? Also, I think this is something WP:CHINA needs to target later on, but which sphere of influence did Tianjin fall under at the time? All it tells me it was established as a muncipality in 1927, and fell to the Japanese ten years later.

I'm also glad to see the clique articles created - this was something I had complained about earlier. Anyhow... Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (Be eudaimonic!) 02:21, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I will fix this to May 1930 to November 4, 1930, someone affirm this. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (Be eudaimonic!) 02:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe "annex" is not a great word, but reorganizing the surrendered enemies into your army is very common at that time. I'll add onto it

Tianjin was under the Northeast Army's sphere of influence. --AQu01rius 15:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Part of?[edit]

I know to say that this was part of the Chinese Civil War would be a bit of a stretch, but even leftist Wang Jingwei was involved, and this was a recurring theme throughout (regionalism versus central control), so it was part of a larger conflict for sure. Warlord era would be a tough stretch but seeing as it's not "officially defined" we could say something close. Perhaps the warlord era article needs to fall under a greater scope - I'll bring this up on WP:CHINA. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (Be eudaimonic!) 03:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

yeah, but for the English readers, Chinese Civil War seemingly refers to the Nationalist-Communist civil war only. --AQu01rius 15:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Assault on Wuhan[edit]

Wuhan is interesting, because it was in warlord hands before the Northern Expedition, made the capital of Wang Jingwei's government, then fell again to a warlord the same year (according to the article at Chiang Kai-Shek.) Was this a warlord friendly to Chiang? It seems that (before my editing) the Wang Jingwei article makes no mention of warlord being responsible for the fall of Wuhan, only of being "unable to resist Chiang", so it seems likely that they could be two aspects of the same thing.

Was just curious why they would attack a warlord possession unless it was allied with Chiang. And there needs to be some correlation between the articles. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (Be eudaimonic!) 03:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I believe that the "local warlord" was Tang Shengzhi. During the Nanjing-Wuhan War (zh:宁汉战争) in late 1927, Tang was defeated by the Nanjing government and was forced to leave the country. The Nationalist Government merged shortly after. So Wuhan was likely under Chiang's influence at the time the Central Plains War started. --AQu01rius 18:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Rise of Chiang Kai-shek[edit]

I added this section in the Background to make the article more complete. Feel free to modify it. --AQu01rius 01:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Ma clique in central plains war[edit]

ma clique aiding chiang kai-shek against feng yuxiang

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=-CpXAAAAIBAJ&sjid=r0MNAAAAIBAJ&pg=6112,1166300&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=a-1gAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uWMNAAAAIBAJ&pg=3152,2690442&hl=en

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10611FB3854167A93C6AB178ED85F4D8285F9

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50B13F83955167A93C6A9178AD95F4C8285F9

Rajmaan (talk) 07:40, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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