Talk:Charles Izon

birth location

@GiantSnowman and Struway2: I'm working my way through Category:Date of birth missing and have been mainly avoiding footballers since their names are so common. This one is more unique - is his birth location of Stourbridge in 1870 confirmed? The only Charles John Izon I found was born in Birmingham, 14 July 1872, married in Birmingham in 1894 and died October 1955. Unfortunately it seems his football career took place between the 1891 and 1901 censuses. (In the 1891 census, his occupation is clerk, and he lists his place of birth as Aston, Birmingham. In 1901, his occupation is "India rubber worker" and in 1911 he was a "Rubber Cutter For Motor Tyres.") I can't find any Charles Izon born in Worcestershire. There was a Louisa Izon born in Stourbridge in 1878, but the 1891 census shows she belongs to a different family. It's unclear where the source is that he was born in Stourbridge. —Мандичка^YO 😜 04:20, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't have either of the books used as references so I can't check. GiantSnowman 06:55, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

@Wikimandia and GiantSnowman: Both books give Stourbridge 1870, and a middle name of John, and a surname spelling of Izon with an I, a Z, and without an initial H, but they're probably not independent of each other, and it doesn't make them correct in any respect. In those days, paperwork wasn't as formal as it would be these days, and it's very unlikely that whoever originally researched the player's details would have taken it so seriously as to pay for birth and death certificates... In the 1890s, most players wouldn't be listed on the census as footballers anyway: it would have listed their normal trade or employment, or in some cases a sinecure that the football club's owners arranged for them to supplement their football wages.

Returning to Mr Izon, I'd guess the primary sources you've found probably do apply to the footballer. Although you've misread the 1891 census: it's his father that's the clerk, the 18-year-old son is a bicycle fitter. What are you using to look up the registration details? because Findmypast nor the LDS site seem to list the 1955 death.

@Wikimandia: while you're here, I undid your changes at Albert Gardner, restoring the dates given in secondary (book) sources and adding a link to Mr Gardner's death details via the LDS site. The d/pob of your chosen Albert Edward Gardner were inconsistent with a death at age 36 registered in q2 1923. Sorry for the digression, I should have told you at the time. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:25, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed you undid that, thanks for that - you were right! Actually, I've seen quite a few of the census listing occupation as professional footballers, which is really helpful. There was also the one who got arrested and fined for some kind of fight, and the court record listed his occupation as footballer too. I'm using Ancestry.com (which is worth the subscription price, since they're adding more and more databases all the time, including England deaths indexes and wills/probates) and also myheritage.com. Izon is an unusual name which makes me think it's him - so do you think I should update this information to what I've found? —Мандичка^YO 😜 16:40, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Personally, I'm not comfortable with overriding published secondary sources with guesswork based on primary sources with no corroborative secondary evidence, even for someone with an uncommon name, even if the guesswork is probably correct. It does rather come down to "it must be him, because he's the only man with the same name at about the right timespan", when you've taken your starting point – the exact full name – from the same source as supplied the apparently incorrect year and place of birth...

If you do add the content, please would you include a bit more detail about the document(s) you're citing: just the name of the register isn't enough. Census entries typically have piece/folio/page numbers, register entries have district/volume/page or similar. And if your immediate source has a url that's usable for a reader with a subscription to the site, then it's a good idea to supply it. As, in more or less detail, at e.g. Freddy Capper, David Moir (footballer) or Everard Green. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:03, 27 July 2017 (UTC)