Talk:Charles Scherf/Archive 1

Archive 1

Copyright problems - too similar wording

There are some wording issues that need to be addressed. Please make sure not to duplicate phrasing while staying true to the source. If necessary, quote and attribute if a reword cannot be attained. In verify the hook, I noticed this:

1. Multiple copied phrases duplicated in the line:

• Article - "By this time, Scherf had been credited with 14½ aircraft shot down in aerial combat, nine aircraft destroyed on the ground and a further seven damaged from a total of 38 operational sorties."
• Source (adb.online) - "In a total of 38 operational sorties, he was credited with 14½ kills in the air, nine aircraft destroyed on the ground, and a further seven damaged."

2. Similar problems but minor, but note that some of the information would be common and not as problematic as the previous:

• Article - "Scherf was born at Emmaville, New South Wales, on 17 May 1917, the sixth child of Charles Henry Scherf, a grazer, and his English wife Susan Jane (née Curnow)."
• Source (adb.online) "SCHERF, CHARLES CURNOW (1917-1949), grazier and air force officer, was born on 17 May 1917 at Emmaville, New South Wales, sixth child of Charles Henry Scherf, a New South Wales-born grazier of German descent, and his wife Susan Jane, née Curnow, who came from England."
  • I commonly word "my" biographical articles simular to this. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

3. Very minor but complete rearrangment of the material with little differences. Try to split up the sentence and get rid of location and type of ceremony as unnecessary:

• Article - "On 23 August 1939, Scherf married Florence Hope O'Hara in an Anglican ceremony at the Holy Trinity Church, Glen Innes;
• Source (adb.online) - "At Holy Trinity Church, Glen Innes, on 23 August 1939 he married with Anglican rites Florence Hope O'Hara."
  • I find my wording to be quite different in this case. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

4. Some similar phrasing, possible problem with "joined" turned to "posted to" (unsure about the other source, as it lacks page numbers listed to find out the wording:

• Article - Posted for flight training at Temora and later Mallala, he graduated as a pilot with an "above average" rating on 2 July 1942. Commissioned as a pilot officer on 17 September, Scherf embarked from Sydney bound for the United Kingdom the following month. Following a six-week voyage, he disembarked on 27 November and was attached to Royal Air Force training units for advanced flying and operational training. He was promoted to flying officer during this time. On completion, Scherf was posted to No. 418 Squadron RCAF on 13 July 1943, flying de Havilland Mosquito light bombers.
• Source (adb.online) - Following training at Temora and at Mallala, South Australia, he obtained an 'above average' rating, received his pilot's brevet on 2 July 1942 and was commissioned on 17 September. Next month he was sent to Britain where he undertook advanced flying and operational training. He joined No.418 Squadron (a Royal Canadian Air Force attack unit equipped with Mosquito light bombers) on 13 July 1943.
  • Once again, I find my wording quite different, and the whole point of the quote marks on "above average" was to attribute it as a quote. However, I have added in a little more information from another source and attributed another section of this text as a quote. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

5. Minor similarities of phrasing, not too big of a concern until the last line:

• Article - During August 1943, Scherf commenced flying operational sorties against Axis airfields in France. On 15 September, he flew as an escort to a group of eight Lancaster bombers during a low level attack on the Dortmund-Ems Canal, Germany.[1] He was promoted to acting flight lieutenant on 29 December.
• Source - In August Scherf began 'Intruder' operations against enemy airfields in France. He flew an escorting Mosquito on 15 September when eight Lancaster bombers of No.617 Squadron attacked the Dortmund-Ems Canal, Germany, at low level and suffered heavy losses. On 29 December he was promoted acting flight lieutenant.
  • This information is supported by two sources, and, really, how else can this be written? Abraham, B.S. (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

6. Some altered phrases but too many similarities:

• Article - "By March 1944, Scherf had been credited with the destruction of seven German aircraft on both the ground and in the air, with an additional shared victory. On 13 March, Scherf was promoted to acting squadron leader and posted to Headquarters Air Defence Great Britain, as a controller of Intruder operations. Despite his new posting, Scherf occasionally returned to No. 418 Squadron when he was off duty and flew in operational sorties with the unit."
• Source - "By the end of February 1944 he had destroyed seven German aircraft on the ground or in the air, and shared the credit for shooting down an eighth. He was made acting squadron leader on 13 March and posted to headquarters, Air Defence Great Britain, as a controller of 'Intruder' operations. When he was off duty he revisited No.418 Squadron and flew combat sorties."
  • Once again, this is quite different, but I have re-written a section of this text. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Problematic info:

1. Use of the term "private" when the only rank mentioned was "corporal". Are we assuming standard structure?

• Article - "In 1934, he enlisted in the Citizens Military Force and was allotted to the 12th Light Horse Regiment as a private"
• Source (adb.online) - "From 1934 he served in the 12th Light Horse Regiment (Militia), in which he reached the rank of corporal."
  • This is assuming nothing. It is supported by another source. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

2. Location of where he worked and timing:

• Article - "the pair would later have a son and three daughters. During this time, he was working as a grazer on his father's property."
• Source - unspecified on when children were born. In terms of working, only stated "Scherf was working on his father's property" and earlier "grazier and air force officer" but never both together.
  • Once again, it is supported by another source that he was working as a grazer on his enlistment. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

This is just from a cursory glance at once source and side by side comparisons. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

This is rubbish. My wording is quite different in all of these cases, and I find your accusations an insult. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

This issue has now been addressed and agreed that the article's contents are not in violation of copyright. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 02:28, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Archive 1