Talk:Charles Upham/GA1

GA Review

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Nominator: Kiwiz1338 (talk · contribs) 10:37, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Zawed (talk · contribs) 22:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

I will review this one. Before I get started though, I want to check that you have at least the Sandford and Scott books. At a glance, I can see some sourcing issues but these should be easy to fix if you have these two books. I think I have a copy of Sandford's book somewhere but it may not be the same edition used here. Zawed (talk) 22:25, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

@Zawed thank you for your time reviewing. I have Sandford 1963 phyiscally, and an epub of Scott 2020. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 11:55, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

First off, I commend your work on this article, it has been improved significantly from what it was. There is still some tidying up to be done, but once that has been done and this is at GA level, I think you should take a run at A-Class review at MilHist with the article. It'll get more reviewing eyes there and prep it nicely for FA.

I'll deal with some initial issues first, and will do a closer review of the text once those have been dealt with. As noted above, there are issues with the sourcing so will start there.

Sourcing

• I mention Sandford and Scott above, but another useful source would be Harper & Richardson's Acts of Valour (published by HarperCollins in 2016). That will be helpful for most of the WWII stuff and provide a bit of diversity of print sources so you aren't so reliant on Sandford. I would also lean on Scott more since it is a modern source. Done
• Some of the internet sources strike me as being a bit dubious, e.g. NZedge (cite 1). I appreciate that these predate your work by several years but sourcing standards have really moved on since they were added. I am sure you would be able to cite these to Sandford, Scott and/or Harper & Richardson. Scott, being so recent, may mention some of the material covered in the "Other honours" section (which I think should be renamed to "Legacy"), so you could drop some of the web links there. Done

I have replaced NZedge with book ref's. Renamed to Legacy

• Cite 14 is in the wrong format - since it is a obituary by the Press, it should be done in the "News" citation template, with the url going to the archive link. Done
• Cites 25, 34, 38, 39 are inconsistent with the formatting used for the Sandford cites. Also, there are no page numbers for cite 25 and 39 which is unacceptable. Done
• Cite 16 is improperly formatted and is presently named "Story: Upham, Charles Hazlitt"; it should be in the style of cite 2 as used at Cyril Bassett. Done
• Cite 16 and cite 44 are actually the same publication (Crawford, listed in the Works cited section) but presented in different styles. Done
• Cite 13 and 53 look to be the same as well (Hurunui District Council) Done
• Cite 47 is a dead link (Derek Cheng in the Herald) Done
• No date on cite 50 (NZ Police) Done
• No page number for cite 59 (Scott) Done
• The first usage of cite 40 does not support the statements that it is the source for. It doesn't name Martin-Leake or Chavasse as the previous recipients. Note that I will be doing some more spot checks on sourcing in the next phase of the review. Done

Replaced with book ref

• The last two items in the "Works cited" section aren't actually cited and should be moved to the External links section. The Art of War link doesn't actually work properly anyway, for me at least. Delete it if it doesn't work for you. Done

Structure

The structure needs some work:

• I suggest some subheadings within the WWII section, e.g. Greece and Crete, North Africa. Done
• Some big paragraphs should be broken up, particularly the one that starts "In July 1940..." Done
• the VC citations should be placed chronologically within the article. Done
• Upham was presented with the ribbon to his VC in October/November 1941. This is worth mentioning, see Harper & Richardson Done
• There is no mention of the presentation of the Bar to Upham; this happened in Christchurch in 1946 (see Harper & Richardson)
• I think that there could be more on the circumstances around the decision to make the second award of the VC; again Harper & Richardson could be useful.
• Delete the in popular culture section. You cite Scott in the article itself so seems pointless mentioning it here and the other fact is just trivia. Done

I expect that's enough for now, with a bit of work for you there. Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:52, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Zawed. Thanks for your help. I have put a check mark on the points I have done. Im stuggling to find anything for

"There is no mention of the presentation of the Bar to Upham; this happened in Christchurch in 1946 (see Harper & Richardson)" even in Harper & Richardson

and what to add with

"I think that there could be more on the circumstances around the decision to make the second award of the VC"

Could you be so kind to help me out a little with this; where to find this? Kiwiz1338 (talk) 21:17, 26 June 2024 (UTC)