Talk:Christianization of Goa/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Christianization of Goa. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Conversion of Catholic Gaudas

Masurkar was not asked by the Hindu Brahmins to target the Goan Catholics descended from Brahmin converts or from any of the other castes, only those Goan Catholics descended from Gauda converts. Hindu Gaudas were also not involved in his actions. 2402:3A80:CA9:3718:E20D:8684:27C0:8B0C (talk) 02:34, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Christianization of Goa

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Christianization of Goa's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "THReligion":

From Goans: "India's religions by numbers". The Hindu (published 26 August 2015). 29 March 2016. Archived from the original on 10 January 2016. Retrieved 6 September 2017.
From Goan Catholics: "India's religions by numbers". The Hindu (published 26 August 2015). 29 March 2016. Archived from the original on 10 January 2016. Retrieved 6 September 2017.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:19, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Christianization of Goa

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Christianization of Goa's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Salomon, H. P 2001 pp. 345-7":

From Konkani people: Salomon, H. P. and Sassoon, I. S. D., in Saraiva, Antonio Jose. The Marrano Factory. The Portuguese Inquisition and Its New Christians, 1536–1765 (Brill, 2001), pp. 345–7.
From Goa Inquisition: ANTÓNIO JOSÉ SARAIVA (1985), Salomon, H. P. and Sassoon, I. S. D. (Translators, 2001), The Marrano Factory. The Portuguese Inquisition and Its New Christians, 1536–1765 (Brill Academic, 2001), pp. 345–353.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 09:03, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Re-write required

Article is written from a strange POV using mostly a single source. Recent scholarship has shown that most of Teotonio de Souza's and Frederick Noronha's articles are basically propaganda against native Goans due to their personal background. Could someone please correct this article to make it NPOV?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2402:3a80:c85:18e3:972d:21c9:4aa8:38c1 (talk) 09:45, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Made several corrections using various sources, also had to revert vandalism from various editors who cited sources where their edits didn't match the information contained in the sources they cited. It appears that some IP can't accept the historical accounts stating that the majority of native Goans converted voluntarily. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.15.232.150 (talk) 20:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Add User:Varoon2542 to the list of editors who keep vandalizing this article with edits containing false citations. He clearly never read any letter of Luís Fróis or any other contemporary accounts in the various volumes of the Documenta indica. 49.15.229.8 (talk) 01:20, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

ZLEA, Firefly, Mikeblas, Mako001, Materialscientist and Bagumba May I have your arbitration, please? Like I already explained to the litigant "The recent "scholarship" you are referring to is by Alan Machado who is not a scholar. He is an engineer by profession and write fictional novels" Other than that, 49.15.229.8, 49.15.232.150, 49.15.234.32, 49.15.234.4, 49.15.231.155, 49.15.231.5 and 2402:3A80:C84:3BE4:F117:9A7B:7A60:A0B1 is a single editor hopping IPs. I was told this is contrary to the rules. Regards Varoon2542 (talk) 01:36, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Varoon2542 Thanks for seeking third opinions. I'm afraid this topic falls outside my area of expertise, but I'll take a look when I get the chance and see if I can be of any help. - ZLEA _T\^C 02:15, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Continue to follow Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Logged out edits are allowed. In a lot of cases, the user cannot control if their IP changes. There are some limitations at WP:LOGOUT; are any of those applicable? Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 03:32, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Regarding edits by 49.15.230.92

Pinging @Varoon2542 can you request the protection for this page., 49.15.230.92 is constantly trying to censor the article. Don't do this. 103.251.217.174 (talk) 13:55, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

WP:CANVASSING isn't going to work for this discussion, especially since the contemporary records show a very different narrative from the "forced conversions" narrative you (and other editors who still can't accept that the overwhelming majority of Goans left Hinduism voluntarily) have been trying to insert into this article and others. Mendonça's book makes it clear that the christianization of Goa was not due to force, but due to various incentives offered by the Portuguese Crown (e.g. full Portuguese citizenship, property rights for Christian women, etc.). Even temple demolitions began only after the majority of the natives in an area had switched religions. Copyediting a list of edicts passed by the Goa tribunal of the Portuguese Inquisition (started in 1560, 50 years after the christianisation process began in 1510 - note that Tiswadi was completely Christian by January 1563), and giving it the title "Forced conversions" is misleading. 49.15.234.121 (talk) 17:39, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Please read wide variety of academic journals. You are biased. There are dozens books on it.

Some of them

103.251.217.174 (talk) 18:28, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Your edit as well as your reply are completely dishonest, especially after the digitized records at the Torre de Tombo were made available for study. They reveal a very different narrative from what you've depicted: https://www.heraldgoa.in/Review/Goa%E2%80%99s-inquisition-facts-fiction-and-factoids/196631 The first article listed in your reply is also a distortion of Francis Xavier's letter to Rome, he criticized only the Brahmins and not all Hindus (https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/1543xavier1.asp). His request for the Inquisition tribunal in Goa also had to do with the arrival of crypto-Jews and crypto-Muslims from Iberia and not converted Hindus (See page 160 of Stephen Neil's 2004 book A History of Christianity in India: "your highness should institute the holy Inquisition; for there are many who live according to the law of Moses or the law of Muhammad without any fear of God or shame before men"). The second article you listed doesn't mention the Christianisation of Goa at all. The third article you listed also does not mention forced conversions: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Rupture+and+continuity+in+colonial+discourses:+the+racialized...-a0122767916 The fourth article is about the Cuncolim revolt, and that was limited to upper-caste Brahmins and Kshatriyas in one area of Salcete after over half of Salcete had become Christian, including Goans in that same area. The last two links are both about the same book by A. B. Xavier, and that book describes the various self-interests involved for various groups of Goans when they decided to leave Hinduism. 49.15.232.137 (talk) 21:57, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Please read about Francis Xavier & what he said about india. He was a very racist towards india on his first arrival.

He said Indians are an “unholyrace” that they are “They are liars and cheats to the very backbone.”. that”the Indians being black themselves, consider their own color the best” and also that “they believe that their gods are black. On this account the great majority of their idols are as black as black can be, and moreover are generally so rubbed over with oil as to smell detestably, and seem to be as dirty as they are ugly and horrible to look at.” He writes to Rome to install inquisition in Goa immediately.

103.251.217.174 (talk) 11:45, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Again, you're being dishonest. The English translation of the entire letter is here: https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/1543xavier1.asp

He made it clear that he saw the Christian converts as being sincere about their religion, and he saw the Hindu Brahmins as thoroughly dishonest. 2402:8100:31AF:F00:53F6:2A46:874:3ECE (talk) 03:37, 1 March 2024 (UTC)