Talk:Chromatic mediant

	Music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Music theory, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of music theory, theory terminology, music theorists, and musical analysis on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Music theoryWikipedia:WikiProject Music theoryTemplate:WikiProject Music theoryMusic theory articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Tchaikovsky example

Tchaikovsky's Chant sans paroles is given as an example of a root position chromatic mediant but the bVI chord is in first inversion. I'm going to remove the reference to root position in the example caption. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Composerjude (talk • contribs) 09:27, 6 June 2010

Except that the chord is not in first inversion. The right hand alone would be a first inversion chord, but it is not alone. The root is provided in the left hand, making it an root position chord. Hyacinth (talk) 03:28, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the left hand there is an F dotted half note that continues throughout the chord changes.Composerjude (talk) 16:08, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately the information is cited. If you disagree find a source which contradicts the source cited and quote it or describe what it says. Hyacinth (talk) 06:54, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

rule and example seem to disagree

The definition of chromatic mediant is given as:

a chromatic mediant relationship is a relationship between two sections and/or chords whose roots are related by a major third or minor third, contain one common tone, and share the same quality, i.e. major or minor.

Then in the examples one of the chromatic mediants of C ( C E G ) is given as a♭ ( a♭ c♭ e♭ ).

I am only a beginning student of music, but this seems to violate both the one common tone portion and the same quality portion (original is major, chromatic mediant is minor) of the rule.

I don't know whether the definition, the example or my understanding is flawed, but hope by adding this someone who does know will give it some attention.

Joe76 (talk) 04:18, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Changed "and" to "or". Hyacinth (talk) 11:48, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Chromatic mediant chords were rarely used during the baroque and classical periods..."

Really? Their use as secondary keys seems pretty well-established by the time of Beethoven: for example, his Kyrie from the Mass in C and Waldstein Sonata both use III as a substitute dominant in major, and the String Quintet in C (op. 29) and Hammerklavier Sonata use VI as such. If you consider Schubert Classical (which some do, such as Brian Newbould), then he would contribute even more examples of chromatic mediant chords. Even earlier, by the time of Haydn's late quartets, he evidently did not consider relationships like VI in major (slow movement of the Op. 77 No. 2 quartet) or ♯VI in minor(!) (slow movement of the Op. 74 No. 3 quartet) to need any explanation, although that is between movements. Double sharp (talk) 15:26, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The sort between movements is in fact really fairly common in later Haydn; I would add the slow movement of the 99th Symphony in III. Double sharp (talk) 04:43, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]