Talk:Cleveland Elementary School shooting (San Diego)/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Motive

I removed "Dislike for Mondays" as the motive and was reverted by @NJZombie.

See here: Special:MobileDiff/1180894724

"Dislike for Mondays" is not an intelligible motive for a shooting. The only source for that as a motive is a singular statement by the shooter, and even then it would be more accurate to interpret her statement as indicating boredom as a motive if anything. Realistically mental illness or misanthropy are the more likely actual motives. I say it should be left blank unless there is a better sourced actual motive. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 14:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Updated argument including new information which resolves the issue altogether:

1. Stated motive =\= Actual motive

2. "Dislike for Mondays" is not a possible motive for a shooting, that simply makes no sense. Arguably "To liven up the day" could be a motive but that's still a stretch

3. She only stated that as her motive in one single instance immediately after the shooting—what was revealed or discussed about her motive since then? Has nobody asked what the courts or legal system have had to say about her motive?

Unfortunately nobody here has done even a single Google search worth of research before commenting

In a 1993 televised interview, when asked about her infamous statement about Mondays, she said "I don't remember saying that. Right now we're trying to find evidence that I did say that. I'd like to hear the tape. It really influenced how people saw me and thought about the whole case." and "On PCP you're liable to say anything." Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-lMzatv6Weg Timestamp ~2:40

Also an expert on school shooters wrote the following: Based on the available information, it appears that virtually every claim Brenda Spencer has made during her parole hearings has been false. [...] She claimed she shot them due to hallucinations of commandos attacking her. She claimed she didn't shoot them; the S.W.A.T. team did. She claimed she fired the rifle but didn't aim and therefore had not intended to hurt anybody. She claimed she had taken so many substances that she blacked out and therefore had no idea what she had done. She claimed she only shot to draw police to the house so that they would kill her." Source: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter-Langman/publication/308221608_Brenda_Spencer_Sorting_Out_the_Contradictions/links/57dec91908ae4e6f184c2d36/Brenda-Spencer-Sorting-Out-the-Contradictions.pdf?origin=publication_detail

IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 00:27, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

In light of this, any objection to using "Motive: Undetermined" for the infobox?

@NJZombie, @Koopinator

IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:57, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Well, I would support that only if there is a sort of official report stating there was no clear motive, like at Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. Otherwise I think we should either leave the field blank or just take the monday thing at face value. Koopinator (talk) 17:09, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

The sources I've provided clearly prove that "dislike for Mondays" was not the actual motive. What reason is there for giving any prominence to "dislike for Mondays" rather than any of the other many disingenuous motives the shooter gave? Yes, the case is famous for the "dislike for Mondays" remark but that is addressed within the page, and should have no bearing on the actual infobox motive. Also, requiring a report to conclude the motive is undetermined makes no sense. Rather, unless there is conclusive evidence of motive then the infobox should state "Undetermined". IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

To add to this, I overlooked your comment about leaving the field blank, that seems a good solution/compromise. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:17, 21 October 2023 (UTC)