Talk:Confederate government of West Virginia

Incorrect

There was no "Confederate government of West Virginia", only "Confederate government of Virginia" which claimed jurisdiction over all of Virginia, including "West Virginia." Srinivasasha2 (talk) 05:29, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

The article covers the Confederate governance of western Virginia which became "West Virginia". As a separate state the article covers Confederate activities and governance within the boundaries of the present state of West Virginia. The subject is too long and complicated to be included on articles re: Virginia, and many of the issues in the article took place even after Federal granting of statehood. The article is in keeping with Confederate government of Kentucky and Confederate government of Missouri articles covering Confederate claims over these border states. The article is heavily cited and referenced and your objection is over nomenclature rather than substance. Dubyavee (talk) 16:42, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Dubyavee that from a general reader’s readers perspective, (a) especially readers with a research interest in modern West Virginia, and (b) for those familiar with Wikipedia’s naming conventions for articles on the border states in the American Civil War, they would expect an article on the counties of West Virginia titled “Confederate government of West Virginia” (CgWV).

In some ways, as there were some few counties, within what would become West Virginia, with functioning Rebel government capable of holding elections the CgWV article is more justified that those for Kentucky or Missouri. That is, elected representatives to the Confederate Congress, were for some western Virginia counties, chosen from some men actually resident in their constituent counties.

In that sense, the CgWV article here makes for better historiography that the Kentucky and Missouri “exile state governments” could lay claim to in embedded in out-of-state Confederate armies, such as those published at Confederate government of Kentucky, and Confederate government of Missouri. For those state delegations in the Confederate Congress, Representatives were either appointed by the Secessionist Governor-pretender, or elected by voice-vote for slates approved by Jefferson Davis, in battalion formation with their officers and sergeants presiding over the proceedings.

Nevertheless, I understand the technical point made above by the visiting editor.

(unofficial) Merge Proposal:

withdrawn proposal

1. The article Confederate government of West Virginia (CgWV) should be merged into the article Virginia in the American Civil War (VitACW). 2. The title “CgWV” should remain, but redirected. Because “CgWV” conforms to other border state treatments in the American Civil War project, it should be preserved, and redirected to Virginia in the American Civil War. 3. Sections in the “CgWV” article should be apportioned into like sections of the existing VitACW, within separate editable subsections titles [… in the western counties of modern West Virginia], or some other more elegant expression agreed to by page editors. a. For the topical areas covered in the CgWV article, but not covered in the VitACW article, the CgWV material should be introduced and then article-editor expanded to embrace the eastern counties of Virginia. For instance, at the addition of a "Postal service" section in the expanded VitACW, the eastern counties section would include the US postal service delivery into (a) counties represented in Congress in the 37th United States Congress adjacent the Potomac River, Chesapeake Bay, and Ohio River, - (b) Union occupied areas and Confederate controlled eastern counties, (see the maps of Confederate Congressional Districts in ACW phases of Union occupation, in Kenneth C. Martis The Historical Atlas of the Congresses of the Confederate States of America 1861-1865 - now online 'Like new' for $35+ as an at-home resource for editors here -, and (c) the in-state armies, Federal and Confederate, including soldiers of state regiments from both eastern Virginia counties and western Virginia counties on both sides. b. In the VitACW, "Battles in Virginia", there are no battles listed in the western counties of Virginia, such as the Battle of Cloyd's Mountain. In this instance, as the battles are listed in a column, the battles in the "western counties of modern West Virginia" should be apportioned under their columnar title in a right-hand column, of equal font to the eastern county battles in the existing left-hand column. c. For the galleries of military leaders, again there should be a dedicated row picturing western county Virginia leaders set apart form the eastern county Virginia leaders, as well as for the Union as the Confederate. - I regret that I cannot take the lead in the merger proposal, but there are instructions at wp:merge. It begins with a notice at the Talk pages of both articles posted as a template, and some other procedural stuff. But I do want to keep abreast of developments to chime in from time to time. And I am happy to help out with timelines and county lists from Martis as referenced above, for his Congressional Districts that were variously "Confederate controlled", "contested", and "Union occupied". Both articles are now on my Watchlist. - TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 21:42, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

- TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 09:14, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't think a merge would be adequate for many reasons. First it would make the Virginia in the Civil War article humongous, there is too much material here for a merge, this article already goes over the recommended size for articles. Secondly, West Virginia has a right to it's own histories, thirdly, the main article on West Virginia covers pre-statehood history as it pertains to West Virginia and so this article falls within that scope. A page move would be more appropriate if people think the current page title is not adequate, to Confederate government of western Virginia perhaps. But I see no urgency for either of the motions as the article stays within the boundaries of its title. Dubyavee (talk) 22:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Agree, I am happy to defer to you. On the face of it, the readable text of this article now exceeds that of the Virginia in the ACW article. I got your point now, sorry for the pause-delay in figuring it out.

I would only ask from the Virginia history side of things, that (a) you make a parallel list of battles and their links for western county battles and link that section to the "Battles in Virginia" section with a "See also" section top hat, and likewise from here to there; (b) that you provide a West Virginia Leaders portrait gallery, Union and Confederate, and likewise use a "See also" link in the ACW sections to this article's galleries, and vice versa, and so on.

This is a great article from the git-go. I'm not sure about the reference and footnote conventions used here, but I'm sure the article as it stands should be between a C-Class or a B-Class status from both the "American history project" and the "Virginia history project" point of view. I'll double check to see if I am on both Project editor lists yet, so I can put in my 2-cents when the time comes for either one. - TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 23:59, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

If there is no further discussion I will remove the maintenance tag next week. Dubyavee (talk) 18:19, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

where is "Confederate government of Virginia"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.8.229.10 (talk) 05:44, 10 December 2020 (UTC)