Talk:Crime in Sweden/Archive 1

Archive 1

Prostitution

I would see a pretty convincing sources the Swedish prostitution laws is based on gender theory. The official story is that the selling side of prostitution is not illegal, in order not to scare the prostitutes away from police, social authorities and medical care, but for these authorities to be able to work constructively with the prostitute, by being able to gain their trust.213.89.71.4 (talk) 09:33, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Inhabitants/prison ratio

There is another, maybe even far more significant reason, that the number of prisoners per 100.000 inhabitants is low. It seems very likely to me, that the extraordinarily bad performance of the swedish police, when it comes to solving crimes may be responsible. My sources for this are e.g. the following newspaper article http://www.thelocal.se/15412/20081103/ According to journalistic research by the newspaper Kalla Fakta, in 2008 "Robberies and violent crimes made up 75 percent of all reported crimes in Sweden last year, which added up to around 900,000. Police managed to solve 5.8 percent of them."

Which means, that about 847.800 violent crimes and robberies are unsolved. If this rate was up to par with other countries, the number of prisoners per inhabitant in sweden would very likely rise to at least the same level. Snark7 (talk) 08:08, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

You can not draw a straight line from number of crimes reported to number of people in prison because many criminals conduct more than one crime, therefore the actual number of criminals not in prison is much lower than you assert it to be. Swedish crime show Efterlyst has multiple times stated just this as a reason why some lines of crimes suddenly seems stop and/or to go unsolved: The criminal has been sentenced for some other crime. You should also keep in mind that different countries report "solved crimes" in slightly different ways, FBI for example only need one person brought to charge in a court or for the crime to be solved (it is still counted as solved in FBI statistics even if the person is acquitted in the court). That is: The judicial system and the police are two different things and one system (the police) can consider you guilty and count it towards its statistics in a certain way and the other system (the courts) can consider you not guilty and count its statistics slightly different.

Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is that the police in Sweden should have more resources at their disposal as well as more field time. But I do not think your claims should make into the article because the vague operationalization, differences among swedish government branches counting/reporting practices as well as international differences in reporting/counting practices

However, if you could supply more first-hand sources or find a way to normalize the data in a neat fashion I think it would be a good addition to not only this but also Crime in other nations' articles. More data almost never a bad thing. NiklasBr (talk) 17:20, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I would also like to add one more thing to this interpretation of statistics: "the practice of counting multiple crimes against a single victim" (in the article) that BRÅ does while some nations do not, and unless we can normalize the number of actual crimes we have to be extra careful about what we put into the article. NiklasBr (talk) 11:12, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Interpreting statistics

I have edited away the source http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worldreference/SE/crime.html because it contains multiple errors because it adds rape and sexual molestation and sexual harassment into the category rape giving a very wrong picture of the crime rate. Murders are reported similarly wrong, see the article for an expanded explanation. Please discuss here if you have any comments. NiklasBr (talk) 15:14, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

That seems to be an endemic problem of Swedish crime statistics, see also the comparison of prevalence and trends for various classes of crime as reported to INTERPOL vs. the UN in http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/europe/sweden.html Mbethke (talk) 23:51, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Graph?

The orange graph showing the 200% increase in violent crime rate doesn't have a source and the uploader states she made it herself. I'm removing it, and you can add it back in when you find a source. 131.251.252.33 (talk) 20:01, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

The scaling of the new chart...

This thing is an abomination. I know you're doing your best here, Gavleston and I appreciate that, but I'd rethink this in particular if I were you.

The figures here (quantity count per hundred thou) start from doubling (2 to 4), then tripling (382 to 959), and finally from ~6000 to 15200. I'm sure the stats are accurate enough, but this gives a very poor visual impression of the rates of increase or decline for each crime. Correct me if I'm wrong, but certain crimes shown here have doubled over the course of time for this chart but that line barely looks like it's moved at all. Seems like a good reason to me to either have individual charts for different crimes or have crimes whose rate/quantity are similar enough to fit on the same chart without a single category blasting off into the sun like a drunken Icarus. 98.210.88.228 (talk) 18:41, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

First of all, recorded crime and actual crime are not necessarily analogous, which is mentioned in the article. Also, if you want to help, you're free to make a contribution.

But to address your complaint, the new chart is still better than the old one, and its main intent was to provide the reader with a quick overview of the general trends in recorded crime. For example, the general trend of decreasing burglary reports is evident. If you want more detailed information about the crime trends it's also available in the article -- sometimes with numbers and percentages broken down on individual crimes -- under the section aptly named "crime trends". / Gavleson (talk) 02:08, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

False statistics

The chart defies reporter's assertion:

 It has been quite clearly established that there has been an increase in violent crime, and in reported rape, over the last 40 years in Sweden. In 1995, the first year for which statistics are easily available on the Crime Agency’s website, there were 179 murders in Sweden, of which 29 involved guns; in 2014 there were 317, of which 74 involved guns.

[It has been quite clearly established that there has been an increase in violent crime, and in reported rape, over the last 40 years in Sweden. In 1995, the first year for which statistics are easily available on the Crime Agency’s website, there were 179 murders in Sweden, of which 29 involved guns; in 2014 there were 317, of which 74 involved guns. The Guardian]

Let us fix it. Zezen (talk) 20:41, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Gang criminality, adding recent crimes

I removed some recent changes. First of all, Wikipedia is not a news service nor an indiscriminate collection of information, this article should not list a bunch of recent headline-grabbing crimes. That could quickly devolve and spiral out of control, and make this article bloated. This article is about crime in Sweden in general, and should remain so, not a listing of recently occurred crimes. Before you add something, ask yourself this: Why should some shooting that happened recently -- or some other crime that you've just read about -- be included, and not the assassination of Prime Minister Olof Palme in 1986 or the 1994 spree killing by Mattias Flink? Which crime is more WP:IMPORTANT? Where should we draw the line of what should and should not be included? Secondly, the text that was added was poorly sourced. The cited article did not support the claim that

In the 2010s Sweden experienced an increase in immigrant gangs engaged in drug dealing and the illegal smuggling of drugs and guns into Sweden

The article mentions gun smuggling and immigrants, yes, but that's about it. If you want to add something more general about gang criminality, feel free to do that under the sections already in place, using sources that actually back up the claims that are being made. Also, if you think the crime statistics is out of date, feel free to help update them. But really, the majority of text in this article isn't outdated. It certainly doesn't warrant a template at the top of the page. / Gavleson (talk) 13:27, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

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Accuracy of the sex crimes chart?

The current sex crimes chart seems to be inconsistent in the "respondents exposed to sexual offences section" when compared to the data from the Swedish Council of National Crime Prevention here. But both sources are good? Not sure what to make of this. Might be better to use the more recent data from the Swedish Council of National Crime Prevention? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.66.176 (talk) 03:39, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Overhaul needed

I plan on undertaking a major overhaul of this article, since I think it's badly needed. So you don't need to waste any time fixing broken links, sources, etc, as I plan on doing that... Gavleson (talk) 17:04, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Data is old 2012-3. What's topical is the effect of immigration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonclaerbout (talk • contribs) 23:04, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Update

Given the latest media attention to the topic it'd be very important to update information in the article. Vast majority of numbers refer to 2013 or 2012, so I've seen reoccurring topic of people ignoring this article as the one before refugee crisis. SkywalkerPL (talk) 08:10, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

The chart is a total abomination, using a *logarithmic scale* for crime rates!? A *doubling* for certain types of crime looks almost completely flat, as if there has been no significant change! Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick... Hard to say if that done by malice / bias, or due to incompetence. 84.202.41.203 (talk) 19:59, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

New references

Which of the references posted at the start of the preceding talk page section are acceptable for being included into the article? David A (talk) 11:19, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

First figure out a) what the source is (is it reliable), and b) what it says (not what you want it to say). If you have problems you could take it to WP:RSN and as "Is the source X reliable enough to say Y"? // Liftarn (talk) 11:36, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

I have done so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Crime_in_Sweden David A (talk) 15:31, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Removing RFC as improper. If you have a content dispute that you want editors to comment on, use RFC. But asking about sources is for venues like RSN. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:26, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Various statistics that I have found

Here are various statistics that I have found. Do with them as you wish:

Malmo, in Sweden, is the second most unsafe, and crime-infested city in Europe (Possibly unreliable information according to the discussion below):

https://www.numbeo.com/crime/region_rankings.jsp?title=2017&region=150

It was decided to open Sweden for massive immigration from the 3rd world in 1975:

http://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-lagar/dokument/proposition/regeringens-proposition-om-riktlinjer-for_FY0326

The amount of women in Sweden subjected to sexually related crimes went up with 70% between 2014 to 2015:

https://www.bra.se/bra/nytt-fran-bra/arkiv/press/2016-11-03-utsatthet-for-sexualbrott-har-okat-bland-kvinnor.html

There were over 480000 sexually related crimes against women in Sweden 2015:

http://www.bra.se/download/18.37179ae158196cb1721ac8/1478089201798/2016_Utsatthet_for_brott_2015.pdf

In 1975 only 421 rapes were reported to the police in Sweden:

https://www.bra.se/bra/publikationer/arkiv/publikationer/2008-11-21-brottsutvecklingen-i-sverige-fram-till-ar-2007.html

To compare with 5920 the year 2015:

https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html

According to the Swedish police department, there are 55 particularly criminal areas in Sweden:

https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/Rapporter-utredningar/01%20Polisen%20nationellt/Ovriga%20rapporter-utredningar/Kriminella%20natverk%20med%20stor%20paverkan%20i%20lokalsamhallet%20Sekretesspr%2014.pdf

According to statistics assembled by the Swedish party Folkpartiet with data from the official statistics institution "Statistiska Centralbyrån" there were 156 social alienation areas in the country in 2006, to compare with only 3 in 1990, and according to data assembled by the economist Tino Sanandaji, there were 186 in 2012.

http://c1845.cloudnet.se/nyheter/utanforskapets-karta/attachment/23270-utanforskapets-karta-2014-05-27/

http://www.dnv.se/nyheter/ny-rapport-utanforskapets-karta-en-uppfoljning-av-folkpartiets-rapportserie/

According to the leader of the ambulance drivers' union, Gordon Grattidge, the police, and other rescue workers, cannot enter such areas without being subjected to violent assaults:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-truth-about-sweden/article/2007071

http://www.weeklystandard.com/video-head-of-ambulance-union-confirms-no-go-zones-in-sweden/article/2007000

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/773310/Swedish-medics-military-equipment-enter-no-go-zones-Ambulance-Drivers-Union

The number of immigrants expected to apply for asylum to Sweden 2016-2020:

https://www.migrationsverket.se/download/18.2d998ffc151ac38715917594/1485556216677/Migrationsverkets+prognos+oktober+2016.pdf

11% of youths (non-Muslims were included in the survey) in the suburbs of Gothenburg admit to supporting Jihadism:

http://www.gp.se/nyheter/g%C3%B6teborg/studie-var-tionde-elev-st%C3%B6ttar-religi%C3%B6sa-extremister-1.3908356

80% of Muslim women in Gothenburg admit to live under the threat of honour culture:

http://www.gp.se/nyheter/göteborg/utbrett-hedersförtryck-mot-flickor-i-göteborg-1.3908432

A comparative study of criminal tendencies between people born in Sweden and abroad from 2005:

https://www.bra.se/bra/publikationer/arkiv/publikationer/2005-12-14-brottslighet-bland-personer-fodda-i-sverige-och-i-utlandet.html

Further information about the vastly increased violent criminal activity in society since 1975:

https://www.morpheusblogg.se/2015/11/12/kriminaliteten-okar-visst/

According to the Swedish police department, the use of hand-grenades in Sweden among criminals is the highest in the world for countries not currently at war:

https://www.svd.se/svenska-attacker-med-granater-sticker-ut-i-varlden

At least 90% of all murders and attempted murders through gun violence in Sweden are performed by those with at least one immigrant parent:

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/vanligt-med-utlandsk-bakgrund-bland-unga-man-som-skjuter/

A study about the extremely increasing antisemitism in Sweden:

http://kantorcenter.tau.ac.il/sites/default/files/PP%203%20Antisemitisms%20160608.pdf David A (talk) 12:25, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Many of your so called sources are anonymous blogs and other non reliable sources. // Liftarn (talk) 14:16, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Actually most of my "so-called" sources are extremely reliable, and only one of them is a blog, which links to statistics sources if I remember correctly.

Can you go through them one by one and give reasons for why they are unreliable? David A (talk) 13:44, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

No, that is your job. // Liftarn (talk) 14:22, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

So you consider yourself free to give insulting and inaccurate sweeping blanket dismissals for statistics from several official institutions, and reliable large newspapers, and then refuse to give any backup whatsoever? Nice.

That said, a few of them are likely less reliable, but you dismissed all of them, simply because it was convenient. David A (talk) 18:24, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

I did not dismiss all of them. I said most. For instance numbeo.com is totally fake. A quick look shows the admit it themselves. They say it is "based on surveys from visitors of this website" and it's very easy to manipulate.[1] That is something you should have checked before even dumping a list of links that may or may not be reliable and may or may not even have anything to do with the subject. // Liftarn (talk) 08:47, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

As far as I am aware Numbeo and the blog post are the only potentially unreliable sources among the above links. The rest are from official institutions or reliable newspapers. David A (talk) 19:29, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

You wrote "660000 immigrants are expected to apply for asylum to Sweden 2016-2020 in sum total”, but the only place in your source that mentions that number is for the entire EU, the prognosis for Sweden is significantly lower than the number you claim to quote from Migrationsverket where they expect "25 000 - 70 000” asylum seekers every year for 2018, 2019, 2020. For 2017 the number was 36 700 according to your source, for 2016 the number was 29 000, for 2014 the number was 83 301 and 162 877 for 2015. Even the ”high range scenario” for all three years gives only 521 878 asylum seekeers in total. The "medium scenario” gives 443 878 asylum seekers, the "low range scenario” gives 386 878 asylum seekers for the stated period. It is your job, David A, to make sure your sources are reliable ’'and’’ it is also your job to make sure you understand your own sources. Please note that Migrationsverkets numbers here include 2014 and 2015, something you did not do in your ”cite” yet verkets munbers are significantly lower than your number. Please explain how you arrived at your number when it differs so much from what your source actually says. 85.229.135.157 (talk) 07:00, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I read a reference to the survey on Twitter that included the relatives of previous immigrants that were expected to seek asylum, not just the ones who had travelled here on their own. David A (talk) 08:37, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

It has been a while, so I do not remember so well beyond that it was a reliable journalist, but you are correct that I should have checked up the numbers myself. I am extremely busy, and in a constant state of distracted stressed out overload, thanks to simultaneously managing my extremely popular wiki, and reading lots of horrifying news articles every day. I am autistic with severe OCD, so this is a fairly typical reaction with this type of constant input.

Regardless, if the numbers are inaccurate, they should be adjusted. David A (talk) 09:04, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

A Twitter post is hardly a reliable source. If you are having trouble with determining is a source is reliable or not you could use WP:RSN. But first try to a) figure out if a source is reliable or not yourself, b) figure out what the source actually says. // Liftarn (talk) 12:27, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

David A wrote: "According to the Swedish police department, there are 55 extremely lawless areas in the country, and 186 in sum total. There were only 3 of them in 1990". Either this is a mistranslation or a serious case of politicised language (the Swedish word "laglös", nor any synonyms, are in the linked PDF). Nowhere in your source does the Police claim that there are any lawless areas whatsoever. 55 of them? Less so! And they only use the word "extrem" once, and only in the context of the extremely rare use of firearms against the police. They do say, however, that there are 55 areas (in 22 cities) where crime due to economic and social factors (e.g. unemployment, lack of social mobility, poorly working social net, et.c.) where crime has reached levels where it negatively impacts the area as a whole. 85.229.135.157 (talk) 16:33, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Well, perhaps it was an inappropriate choice of translation for "utanförskapsområden" on my part then, but it is nevertheless worth noting in the main page. However, if I remember correctly, according to Tino Sandandaji's report they classified 186 areas as such, compared to just 3 in 1990. David A (talk) 19:22, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

It should be noted that Tino Sandandaji is not an expert on crime, he is an economist and thus not usable as a source except for his own opinions (and to put those into the article it has to have a proven notability). // Liftarn (talk) 06:41, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Tino Sanandaji is much better at finding, quoting, and organising statistics that most supposed experts on crime though. He almost never goes by his own opinion, just by the facts that he has been able to uncover. In comparison, Jerzy Sarnecki stated in an interview that he is dyslexic, and only skims through statistics for example. David A (talk) 09:38, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

I understand that you may have that opinion, but it don't make it more reliable. Your reasoning sounds like those who claim that Robert Faurisson is better than historians since his knowledge of literature somehow made him better at understanding texts. And I notice you use a blog as a source for your statement on Jerzy Sarnecki. // Liftarn (talk) 10:12, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

The point is that Tino has just assembled various official statistics for his report. I have an extremely hard time seeing how that is not reliable. And the blog in question cites interviews in other newspapers. David A (talk) 13:07, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Regardless, the information also comes from an official examination, made by the Swedish party "Folkpartiet" (now "Liberalerna"), so any attempts at discrediting Tino as a reliable source are meaningless. See here for further information. David A (talk) 13:13, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

The point is that a) he's not qualified in giving opinions on crime and b) he's not reliable at all[2] As I said earlier, you are free to take it up at WP:RSN. // Liftarn (talk)

No, the point is that the 3 criminal areas 1990 and 186 criminal areas 2012 were directly lifted from the official report by Folkpartiet/"Liberalerna". As such, quoting Tino is not even necessary. David A (talk) 07:52, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Also, here is Tino defending himself against the false accusations. David A (talk) 07:58, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Facebook posts are not reliable sources. // Liftarn (talk) 10:36, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

They were obviously not intended to be used as sources, just as a defence against your accusation that every single statistic that he has compiled over his career are unreliable, due to inaccurate claims from two agenda-driven researchers.

In any case, that has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the official government investigation from Folkpartiet/"Liberalerna" is perfectly useful as a source for the massively increasing number of criminal areas. David A (talk) 17:12, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

An investigation by a a third party (non-GO), requested by, and paid for, by a single political party, is in no way or form an official government investigation (Swedish: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statlig_utredning) as you claim it is. It should not be our job to educate you what your sources really are and what they pertain to. NiklasBr (talk) 17:31, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

As far as I understand, Folkpartiet was in the Swedish government while this investigation was ordered in the middle of 2014, but regardless, the source should be useful, informative, and reliable. David A (talk) 19:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Please read and try to understand how Sweden works: http://www.regeringen.se/sa-styrs-sverige/lagstiftningsprocessen/utredningar-och-kommitteer/ just because a political party holds a governing position does not mean that everything they do is government jobs. Even less so a "official government investigation". This link is no such thing and can not be counted on as a reliable source unless you can point to exactly why it is a reliable source. There are multiple indications that this is not a reliable source, such as it is only a single political party, it is from an investigator with no known track record, it holds no citation or sources in itself. It is more like a long opinion piece from an organisation whose explicit goal is to change opinions (https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den_Nya_Välfärden) than a true investigation/research piece. Exactly why is it reliable? Exactly why is it useful? Exactly why is it informative? NiklasBr (talk) 06:27, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

I am no longer referring to the report written by Tino Sanandaji for "Den Nya Välfärden", I am referring to the original report "Utanförskapets Karta" by Folkpartiet, that was written based on the official numbers from "Statistiska Centralbyrån"/the Swedish state's statistics bureau. See here for further information. I do not see how the numbers can get much more reliable than that.

And the dramatic rise in criminal areas over the last 27 years is certainly relevant for a Wikipedia page dedicated to chronicling exactly that type of information. David A (talk) 06:57, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

It's only reliable as a source for that Folkpartiet claims that. Their report have received much criticism.[3][4][5] // Liftarn (talk) 08:44, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Virtually every single important report referenced anywhere in Wikipedia has received at least some criticism. That does not make official statistics received from "Statistiska Centralbyrån" any less relevant. I firmly believe that statistical information about what reality looks like needs to be set free, so problems can be properly analysed, not systematically swept under the carpet. The latter approach is extremely intellectually dishonest. David A (talk) 11:08, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

The problem is that you a) want the sources to say something they don't say and b) use unreliable sources, partisan sources, extremists, blogs, FaceBook posts et.c. // Liftarn (talk) 11:38, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

No, as far as I am aware, the sources very much say what I have stated, and I adjusted the descriptions for the ones that you told me did not, the vast majority are reliable, and none of them are extremist as far as I am aware. Neither have I included any facebook posts in the original link list. David A (talk) 11:57, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

I have updated the list with research by Dagens Nyheter. This has been an extremely pro-mass immigration newspaper for a very long time, so if even they admit that we have a problem, we really do have a problem. David A (talk) 15:25, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

It is clear to me that this is not the first or the last time you have tried to push a certain POV onto this pages such as this one, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:David_A/Archive_1 spells it out pretty clearly. Please understand that your point of view can not be validated by heavily slanted or misrepresented sources. NiklasBr (talk) 17:15, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Actually, I am strictly attempting to balance the page with matter-of-fact information, not remove any references, or insert unwarranted opinions, and I have only made extremely minor edits to this article. My edit history is fairly harmless. I occasionally make stupid edits when I am overworked and stressed out, but that is pretty much it, and I consistently relent afterwards.

My problems have stemmed from being extremely stressed out from reading lots of horrifying news articles, not having normal mental filters in my talk page communications, and as such being chronically honest, rather than using misdirection and subterfuge. Your attempts to use an ad hominem diversion regarding my personal character notwithstanding.

Also, if you checked the rest of my profile page, you would notice that my general viewpoints are fairly harmless, and likely mostly fairly close to your own. I am simply terrified of Islamism, rampant crime, economic collapse, and disintegration of our social institutions. David A (talk) 17:49, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

If you are irrationally afraid why do you continue to seek out biased information? Why are you continually defending your own faulty assumption made from your sources? Why are you not making an effort to find more information and better information? Why are you, in the face of hard evidence, still terrified of Islamism, rampant crime, economic collapse, and disintegration of our social institutions? NiklasBr (talk) 18:09, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

I am not irrationally afraid. I am rationally afraid. I have sought out an awful lot of information, from a wide variety of newspapers and statistics research, and the more I learn, the more terrified I get. David A (talk) 18:17, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be more rational to base your fears on reality as described by reliable sources rather than fearmongers. // Liftarn (talk) 13:31, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I have read lots of statistics about Islamism, and a massive amount of regular newspaper articles about how our society is quickly falling apart due to lack of resources and ability to integrate such massive numbers of mostly uneducated immigrants. My fears have lots of solid foundation behind them. David A (talk) 16:08, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

You are feel to believe that (even if it's incorrect), but the problem is that you try to put such things into Wikipedia without any sources to back it up. Please just read what the sources actually say instead of what you think they do and try to pick reliable sources. // Liftarn (talk) 15:21, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

When have I tried to insert anything into Wikipedia without a source? I have suggested some sources in a few talk pages in recent months, but that is it.

I would also suggest that you read up on the statistics yourself (PEW Research is a good place to start, but if you send me an email, I can give you a link list of several dozen references), and it is extremely hard to read almost any regular Swedish newspapers nowadays without noticing a lot of articles about rampant crime and failing social institutions. However, I prefer overall statistics over a multitude of incidents for encyclopaedic purposes. David A (talk) 07:58, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

An updated list regarding the situation in Sweden

I need help with evaluating which of the following information that should be incorporated into the article:

It was decided to open Sweden for mass-immigration from the 3rd world in 1975:

http://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-lagar/dokument/proposition/regeringens-proposition-om-riktlinjer-for_FY0326

In 1975 only 421 rapes were reported to the police in Sweden:

https://www.bra.se/bra/publikationer/arkiv/publikationer/2008-11-21-brottsutvecklingen-i-sverige-fram-till-ar-2007.html

To compare with 5920 the year 2015:

https://www.bra.se/bra/brott-och-statistik/valdtakt-och-sexualbrott.html

The amount of women in Sweden subjected to sexually related crimes went up with 70% between 2014 to 2015:

https://www.bra.se/bra/nytt-fran-bra/arkiv/press/2016-11-03-utsatthet-for-sexualbrott-har-okat-bland-kvinnor.html

There were over 480000 sexually related crimes against women in Sweden 2015:

http://www.bt.se/sverige-varlden/480-000-sexbrott-mot-kvinnor-i-sverige-pa-ett-ar/

http://www.bra.se/download/18.37179ae158196cb1721ac8/1478089201798/2016_Utsatthet_for_brott_2015.pdf

At least 90% of all murders and attempted murders through gun violence in Sweden are performed by either immigrants or those with at least one immigrant parent:

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/vanligt-med-utlandsk-bakgrund-bland-unga-man-som-skjuter/

94.5% of all career criminals in Stockholm, Sweden, are either immigrants or have at least one immigrant parent:

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/qs/gangen-inifran/brotten-skulderna-bakgrunden--sanningen-om-de-gangkriminella-i-stockholm/

According to the Swedish police department, there are 53 areas in the country where the police has lost control of crime and religious extremism/Islamism. 23 of them are extremely criminal. There are at least 186 social alienation areas in sum total. In 1990 there were only 3 of them:

https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/Rapporter-utredningar/01%20Polisen%20nationellt/Ovriga%20rapporter-utredningar/Kriminella%20natverk%20med%20stor%20paverkan%20i%20lokalsamhallet%20Sekretesspr%2014.pdf

http://www.westmonster.com/8-new-areas-added-to-swedish-police-no-go-zone-list/

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/hemliga-listan-23-omraden-ar-nu-sarskilt-utsatta/

http://c1845.cloudnet.se/nyheter/utanforskapets-karta/attachment/23270-utanforskapets-karta-2014-05-27/

http://www.dnv.se/nyheter/ny-rapport-utanforskapets-karta-en-uppfoljning-av-folkpartiets-rapportserie/

According to the leader of the ambulance drivers' union, Gordon Grattidge, the police, and other rescue workers, cannot enter such areas without being subjected to severe violent assaults, such as stone-throwing lynch mobs:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-truth-about-sweden/article/2007071

http://www.weeklystandard.com/video-head-of-ambulance-union-confirms-no-go-zones-in-sweden/article/2007000

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/773310/Swedish-medics-military-equipment-enter-no-go-zones-Ambulance-Drivers-Union

According to the Swedish police department, the use of hand-grenades in Sweden among criminals is the highest in the world for countries not currently at war:

https://www.svd.se/svenska-attacker-med-granater-sticker-ut-i-varlden

There is a floating distinction between the jihadists and extremely violent criminals in Sweden:

https://www.dagenssamhalle.se/kronika/flytande-graens-mellan-gaengen-och-jihadisterna-33125

The number of physical assaults against boys between the ages of 15 and 17 in Sweden have increased by 68% during the last two years:

http://www.tv4.se/nyheterna/klipp/ungdomar-tappar-f%C3%B6rtroendet-f%C3%B6r-r%C3%A4ttsv%C3%A4sendet-3911550

The number of sex crimes in Swedish festivals went up by 1000% in 2016 compared to the previous year, right after taking in 203000 immigrants in 2015:

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/brottscentralen/tjejer-ofredas-pa-grona-lund-helt-oacceptabelt-/

The police of Sweden reports that: "Society is not equipped to deal with this great a number of criminal actors (...) Police and other social actors lack the ability to handle the problem."

http://www.expressen.se/ledare/rikspolischefen-har-tappat-kontrollen/

The number of genital-mutilated women in Sweden are several times higher than 38000:

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/mangdubbelt-fler-konsstympade-kvinnor-an-man-trott

Sweden will take in 374000 relatives to previous immigrants during the next 4 years:

http://www.svd.se/i-asylkrisens-spar-374-000-anhoriga-vantas

The number of immigrants that will apply for asylum to Sweden 2016-2020 in sum total:

https://www.migrationsverket.se/download/18.2d998ffc151ac38715917594/1485556216677/Migrationsverkets+prognos+oktober+2016.pdf

10000 immigrants arrive in Italy every week, and mostly want to go to northern Europe:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/02/italy-calls-european-countries-take-migrant-ships-country-struggles/

355000 Swedish elderly live below the poverty line: http://www.expressen.se/dinapengar/355-000-lever-under-gransen-for-fattigdom/

11% of the youths in the suburbs of Gothenburg admit to supporting Jihadism (non-Muslims were included in the survey):

http://www.gp.se/nyheter/g%C3%B6teborg/studie-var-tionde-elev-st%C3%B6ttar-religi%C3%B6sa-extremister-1.3908356

80% of Muslim women in Gothenburg admit to live under the threat of honour culture:

http://www.gp.se/nyheter/göteborg/utbrett-hedersförtryck-mot-flickor-i-göteborg-1.3908432

There are thousands of Jihadists in Sweden:

https://www.svd.se/sapo-tusentals-radikala-islamister-i-sverige/om/hotet-mot-sverige

https://www.thelocal.se/20170616/thousands-of-violent-extremists-in-sweden-security-police/

The EU admits that extremely few of the immigrants to Europe have been actual refugees, and are rather there for economic reasons:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/819670/Migrant-crisis-EU-admits-hardly-any-people-arriving-Italy-refugees-deportations/

Germany admits that most of the immigrants almost completely lack education and work skills:

https://amp.ft.com/content/022de0a4-54f4-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005f

82% of immigrants to Sweden who claim to be underage are really adults:

https://www.rmv.se/aktuellt/det-visar-tre-manader-av-medicinska-aldersbedomningar/

Over 90% of the young 3rd world immigrants are men, not women:

http://www.migrationsverket.se/download/18.7c00d8e6143101d166d1aab/1446451028489/Inkomna+ans%C3%B6kningar+om+asyl+2015+-+Applications+for+asylum+received+2015.pdf

A report about the intense antisemitism in the Muslim communities of Sweden and Europe:

http://kantorcenter.tau.ac.il/sites/default/files/PP%203%20Antisemitisms%20160608.pdf

A study about antisemitic violence in Europe. The Muslims and the far left are the by far greatest perpetrators:

http://www.sv.uio.no/c-rex/english/news-and-events/news/2017/antisemitic-violence-in-europe.html

The Muslim Brotherhood has a very strong foothold and influence in Sweden:

https://www.msb.se/Upload/Kunskapsbank/Studier/Muslimska_Brodraskapet_i_Sverige_DNR_2107-1287.pdf

It is also considering to move its international headquarters to Sweden:

https://ledarsidorna.se/2017/03/is-the-muslim-brotherhood-moving-to-sweden/

David A (talk) 15:11, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

• WP:RFC is a process for requesting outside input concerning disputes, policies, guidelines or article content. What is the dispute here? —Anomalocaris (talk) 09:22, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

  No dispute yet. I just thought that the subject is important, and need help with unbiased outside evaluations. David A (talk) 09:36, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

  Please look at how it appears at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Politics, government, and law (permalink) and trim it down in accordance with WP:RFC#Statement should be neutral and brief. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:26, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

  I have now written a brief opening explanation. David A (talk) 13:23, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

  With this effect. It's just five words shorter than it was. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:49, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

  Well, it is a very extensive subject, and I genuinely need help with incorporating appropriate parts of the information into the article. Do you have any suggestions for how I should approach requesting help? Are there any other resources in Wikipedia that I could try instead? David A (talk) 10:21, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

  Yes David, I have a suggestion. The best courses of action here (in order of preference) would be

  1) Do not call an RfC at all but simply edit the article based on the sources as you see fit and follow the BRD process. You can leave a detailed summary on the talk page to aid editors who wish to get involved and your list of links can be included in the talk page (in a rollout) when you do this

  2) Write a brief suggested proposal based on your sources and call the RfC, asking editors to vote on/discuss its suitability for inclusion. Once the RFC has begun include any lists of sources and detailed content you wish to site as a rollout box/hidden content box on the talk page to keep the talk page tidy. Edaham (talk) 06:27, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

  Okay. I have removed the RFC tag, and will try to write a suggestion when I find the time. I am kept extremely busy elsewhere. David A (talk) 14:11, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

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Editing help needed

@AadaamS:@Soupforone: I have made various additions to this page, but am not good at organising the information by combining it with previous content. Would you or somebody else be willing to help me out? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crime_in_Sweden&type=revision&diff=810508993&oldid=809148379 David A (talk) 18:19, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Reference removal

Which of the following removed references should renain removed, and which ones are reliable enough to keep within the page? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crime_in_Sweden&type=revision&diff=810816085&oldid=810512922 David A (talk) 07:24, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

As you have been told at WP:ANI and WP:RSN, the problem is not the references by themselves and taken separately. The problem is the WP:SYNTH and the biased selection of sources to present a certain POV. It doesn't help that you sometimes, deliberately or not, misrepresent what the sources say. Sjö (talk) 08:17, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

But then you can go through and evaluate them one by one, and keep or modify the ones that are appropriate. Removing everything seems far too drastic and sweeping a measure. David A (talk) 08:19, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Also, I do not deliberately misrepresent anything. I am doing my best, but I am under a lot of pressure in terms of limited time and massive workload. David A (talk) 08:21, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

• The text in diff is not WP:SYN, but simply reproducing something that sources tell (assuming good faith). A selection of sources that support certain view? This is hard to tell without knowing the subject in depth. But even if this is an incomplete selection of sources, such things should be fixed by providing more sources on the subject that presumably tell something different, not by removing claims from valid RS. The overall idea is that crime rate in Sweden had increased significantly. Yes, this well can be true - based on the sources currently provided on the page. My very best wishes (talk) 14:29, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

However, the inserted text does appear to be problematic because of the way it was written. It repeats essentially the same claim many times to emphasize certain position. That must be fixed. My very best wishes (talk) 14:43, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback. I am perfectly fine with if you or somebody else is willing to prune the references to only keep the most relevant ones, and would greatly appreciate if somebody could help me out by rewriting them in an appropriate manner. I am mostly used to editing entertainment articles, which are far less complicated, and am not good at all with understanding bureaucratic regulation intricacies regarding how exactly that pages should be appropriately written. I am good at finding valid references however. David A (talk) 16:02, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

The key is deciding which data are significant enough ("due") to be included on the page. For example, simply saying: "Hey, it was two times higher than in Norway" (someone else did it [6]) would be "undue". There are lots of countries where crime rate was many times higher than in Norway. My very best wishes (talk) 16:22, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Okay. That is probably correct. My sense of judgement is not the best regarding filtering information. I just see lots of statistics, and have a hard time deciding what seems most important. David A (talk) 16:37, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Crime in Sweden editing help needed

Here are all of the relevant references that I have found regarding this topic. However, I might get topic-banned soon, so I would greatly appreciate if somebody competent could please check through them, and incorporate the ones that are relevant and reliable into the page:

In 1975 only 421 rapes were reported to the police in Sweden.

6720 rapes were reported to the police in Sweden 2016, and only 10% of all rapes are reported according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (BRÅ).

In The Swedish Crime Survey (NTU) for 2016, 140000 depicted incidents could have been severe enough to be considered attempted or completed sexual coercion or rape, compared to 97000 in the previous year.

The amount of women in Sweden subjected to sexually related crimes went up with 70% between 2014 to 2015, and there were over 480000 such incidents in 2015.

In 2016 the frequency went up with another 70% compared to 2014, and the amount has tripled since 2012. Only 11% of those surveyed stated that they have reported the crimes to the police.

Only 8% of all reported rapes in Sweden 2017 have been handled by the police.

The number of sex crimes in Swedish festivals went up by 1000% in 2016 compared to the previous year.

According to Dagens Nyheter, at least 90% of all murders and attempted murders through gun violence in Sweden are performed by either immigrants or those with at least one immigrant parent.

According to Expressen, 94.5% of all members of career criminal gangs in Stockholm, Sweden, are either immigrants or have at least one immigrant parent.

According to the Swedish police department, there are 53 socially vulnerable areas in the country, of which the ones wherein they have lost control of crime and religious extremism recently increased from 15 to 23.

According to the leader of the Swedish ambulance drivers' union, rescue workers cannot enter such areas without police protection.

According to the Swedish police department, the use of hand-grenades in Sweden among criminals is the highest in the world for countries not currently at war.

There are so many criminal gang shootings in Sweden eating up resources that the police can not even investigate rapes of small children.

The number of physical assaults against boys between the ages of 15 and 17 in Sweden increased by 68% from 2015 to 2017.

The police of Sweden reports that: "Society is not equipped to deal with this great a number of criminal actors (...) Police and other social actors lack the ability to handle the problem."

Twice as many have been killed by gun violence in Sweden 2017 compared to 2016.

There has been an average of one criminal gang shooting every day in Sweden 2017.

There is 4 to 5 times as much deadly gun violence in Sweden compared to Germany and Norway relative to the population size.

The staff of the Swedish Migration Agency have reported 2875 incidents of threats or violence from January to September 2017.

The criminal situation in Sweden is so severe that the Moderate Party wants to let the military help the police in the most extreme suburbs.

A report from the safety officer of the severe crime division of the Swedish police department described their situation as unsustainable, with officers that are near their breaking points from stress and pressure.

There is a floating distinction between the jihadists and extremely violent criminals in Sweden.

According to the Swedish Security Service (SÄPO), there are thousands of Islamic terrorists in Sweden, and it receives an average of 200 reports of planned terrorism every day.

3 times as many cases of terrorism financing were reported in Sweden 2017 compared to 2016.

References

David A (talk) 06:05, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

The ones that are talking about increase from one year to another, in percentage, are not usable in my opinion. Instead, look for sources that analyze long-term trends. I briefly checked BRÅ, and while sexual crimes per 100.000 people increased in 2016, it decreased in 2015. Fluctuation is a thing, and this can be misleading. Same goes for comparisons with one or two other countries.

No 32, Dagenssamhälle [7] is an op-ed.

The SÄPO links (33, 34) about violent extremists might be used, but I don't see any reason to use the word terrorist.

A lot of this is trivia at best. No 28, 29 and 30 are right out. Even disregarding the editorializing ("The criminal situation in Sweden is so severe"), this was a motion by a few members of the center-right party the Moderates, which the party itself didn't even sanction, as is clear from the links.

This source is fine (13) [8], though there's no need for comparisons (the sources themselves point out different factors regarding the numbers), and I can't find any mention of religious extremism, or "lost control" in the sources (DN was behind a paywall).

These I would qualify as trivia: (19) [9], (10) [10], (27)[11].

I'll look a bit more on the rest. Ratatosk Jones (talk) 07:22, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Well, I think that the official government survey that states that the sex crime statistics have tripled between 2012 and 2016, and only 11% of the incidents are reported to the police, should be included at least. David A (talk) 07:27, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

RatatoskJones, could you add David A's numbers to your links, so it's easier to see which sources you checked? Sjö (talk) 07:31, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Of course, sorry. Ratatosk Jones (talk) 08:02, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

As always, it's not only the sources' reliability that's important, but also what they are supposed to support and how that text is put in context. Having pointed that out 36 is a reliable source, though I would call it "suspected terrorism financing" as the article makes it clear that some of these are dismissed. Sjö (talk) 07:38, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

23 is an opinion piece, reliable for the opinions of the author but not for statements of fact. If you want to use the quote, you will have to find another source. Sjö (talk) 07:48, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

What about #8? That one seems to be one of the most important references. David A (talk) 08:21, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Here are various recent newspaper articles that mention the results: [12] David A (talk) 16:41, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Or here, if you prefer: [13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20] David A (talk) 08:42, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

[21] and [22] are editorials. // Liftarn (talk) 15:03, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Okay. Never mind them then. David A (talk) 15:29, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Help needed

Hello.

I have found the following statistics references, that I think seem important and reliable.

I would greatly appreciate if somebody could please check through them and incorporate them into the article if they are deemed appropriate.

Thanks in advance for any help.

According to The Swedish Crime Survey (NTU) for 2017, the part of the female population subjected to sex crimes increased from 1.4% in 2012 to 4.1% in 2016. Only 11% reported the crimes to the police.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/teens-roam-streets-with-rifles-as-crime-swamps-sweden-q83g055k9

https://www.bra.se/nytt-fran-bra/arkiv/press/2017-11-15-fler-privatpersoner-utsatts-for-brott.html

According to the Swedish police department, there are 61 socially vulnerable areas in the country, of which 23 are especially plagued by crime.

https://polisen.se/Aktuellt/Nyheter/Gemensam-2017/Juni/Polisens-rapport-om-utsatta-omraden/

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/krim/a/LVMpJ/polisens-nya-rapport-61-utsatta-omraden-i-sverige

https://polisen.se/siteassets/dokument/ovriga_rapporter/utsatta-omraden-social-ordning-kriminell-struktur-och-utmaningar-for-polisen-2017.pdf

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/hemliga-listan-23-omraden-ar-nu-sarskilt-utsatta/

According to the Swedish police department, the use of hand-grenades in Sweden among criminals is the highest in the world for countries not currently at war.

https://www.svd.se/svenska-attacker-med-granater-sticker-ut-i-varlden

Twice as many have been killed by gun violence in Sweden 2017 compared to 2016.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=103&artikel=6780572

There has been an average of one criminal gang shooting every day in Sweden 2017.

https://www.svd.se/efter-blodig-sommar--sa-kraftsamlar-polisen-mot-gangen

Sweden has ten times as many incidents of lethal gun violence per capita as Germany:

http://www.dagensjuridik.se/2018/05/skjutningarna-i-sverige-extrema-hela-europa-ny-studie-varnar-utvecklingen

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10610-018-9387-0

Threats and violence in Swedish schools have almost doubled in five years:

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vasternorrland/hot-och-vald-i-vara-skolor

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vasternorrland/skolan-foljer-den-allmanna-trenden-i-samhallet

Almost 6000 police officers in Sweden have left their professions:

http://www.duochjobbet.se/chef/nastan-6000-poliser-jobbar-inte-kvar-i-yrket/

8 out of 10 police officers think that they seldom or never have a sufficient number of officers available to handle the demands of their work:

https://www.polisforbundet.se/om-oss/nyheter/nar-farre-ska-skydda-fler/

David A (talk) 14:16, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

First, the source "Rapport 2017:1 Nationella trygghets-undersökningen" (which you omitted a link to, so I can only assume that is the one you mean) does not include the number "…1.4% in 2012 to 4.1% in 2016. Only 11%…" you claim they do. Please be more specific.

Second, The Times' source is edited (not written) by John Witherow, a known climate change denier who on occasion has been known to lie in the face of overwhelming evidence. The article is written in a highly inflammatory tone as if a single event was somehow common. Can you find other sources that claim that rifle-carrying teens are common in Sweden. As opposed to other nations where weapon-carrying kids are common (ok, that last one was a bit tongue-in-cheek). My point is that the main problem with this article is its tone and assertions.

Third, the source "Twice as many have been killed by gun violence in Sweden 2017 compared to 2016." itself says that it is very possible that this is a temporary uptick, and will return to "normal" next year. The interviewed advises against using this number for anything.

Four, Almost 6000 police officers in Sweden have left their professions, the linked source says that it is common that people leave their professions. The source highlights a sample of three other occupations with a similar or higher degree of "unfaithfulness" to ones education: Teachers, Social science workers, Nurses. The police is not unique in any aspect here.

Fifth, 8 out of 10 police officers think that they seldom or never have a sufficient number of officers available, the police is not unique in any aspect here either, there are multiple professions which self-report as having insufficient number of employees or other resources. Examples include Socialstyrelsen: Medical sciences, Ski and tourism, Private services, Logistics/transport, and mechanics, Veterinarians, and so on. I'm not saying that the police in truth does not need more people (including geting back those who quit for whatever reasons). What I am saying is that this is such a common phenomenon that I am not sure to know what we should do with this knowledge. And I want to point again to the fact that this is self-reported from a questionnaire, not a deeply studies issue.

Other than that I think it is an improvement. NiklasBr (talk) 16:00, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Okay. Thank you for the input. Would it be acceptable to change the first description to "According to The Swedish Crime Survey (NTU) for 2017, the average of the male and female population subjected to sex crimes increased from 0.8% in 2012 to 2.4% in 2016. Only 11% reported the crimes to the police. https://www.bra.se/nytt-fran-bra/arkiv/press/2017-11-15-fler-privatpersoner-utsatts-for-brott.html " instead? David A (talk) 02:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the overall situation in Sweden, there is also this New York Times article, but I do not know if it is useful: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/world/europe/sweden-crime-immigration-hand-grenades.html David A (talk) 03:00, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

New chart

I'm replacing the old chart in the lead section with a new one, for a number of reasons:

• The time-frame on the old chart was extremely long (1950-2005), which causes many problems. Laws and police procedures have obviously changed significantly since the 50's, a great number of new laws have been introduced, the confidence in the justice system have increased, while tolerance towards crime have decreased. Anyone who's spent a some time studying the reports and statistics from the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention can tell you this accounts for a significant portion in the the increase of crime reports, making a chart like this, which such a long time-frame, rather pointless. (Coincidentally, none of this is mentioned in the article.)

I'll give a quick example: In the 1960's, the Swedish police introduced a new system for reporting crime statistics, which can largely explain the significant increase of reported crime that's happed after WWII. Similar sharp increases in crime reports can also be seen most other western countries, after the end of WWII. (Source)

• Homicide and murder have been bundled with assault on the old chart. The number of homicide and murder is almost insignificant compared to the number of cases of reported assault. Homicides and murder have not increased in the same way assault has, so grouping it like that is also misleading.

• The legend and labels are in Swedish, and this is English Wikipedia.

• It's outdated, as it stops at 2005.

• The text is small and the number of data classes is large, resulting in a chart that's not very legible.

All in all, the above mentioned problems is is probably why you won't find a similar chart on the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention's website (they usually limit themselves to time-periods starting from 70's or 90's, depending on which crime groups they are focusing on). For this reason alone, I think that from an editorial standpoint and a there's enough reasons to simply remove this chart altogether, as it is very misleading and not very usable.

That being said, I've nevertheless created a new chart, with statistics on individual crime groups using a logarithmic scale -- in an effort to rectify some of the problems with the above mentioned chart. The time-frame have been reduced to cover the last 20 years (1993-2013, which is more reasonable). The number of data groups have also been reduced to the following:

• Total number of crime reports
• Burglary
• Assault
• Sexual offences (including rape)
• Robbery
• Homicide and murder

Gavleson (talk) 22:12, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Please update this chart with a more recent chart, and perhaps consider moving back to depicting the data linearly. 74.110.180.250 (talk) 19:51, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Lead has a WP:RECENTISM problem.

The lead seems to devote far too much focus to relatively recent statistics - a focus that is not present in the sources (which repeatedly warn against trying to draw dramatic conclusions from raw crime statistics, eg. Criminal statistics do not reflect the actual level of crime in a country, since these are influenced by legal factors and the extent to which crime is reported and how crimes are registered and But a criminology expert has warned The Local that reaching conclusions by analyzing figures for reported crimes is a tricky business. “Reported crimes are a lousy measure of the development of crimes. The number of crimes reported tends to be dependent on the discussion going on in the country,” University of Stockholm criminology professor Jerzy Sarnecki said. We should tone down the heavy focus on point-by-point recent figures and focus more on overarching long-term coverage. --Aquillion (talk) 05:54, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Sarnecki is himself a controversial academic and is "known for the opposite of exaggerating crime in Sweden" according to Forskning & Framsteg. Picking a single academic at the expense of others will not create a good article. A Thousand Words (talk) 05:54, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

I think the lede is good as-is on this front; WP:RECENTISM is about things like "documenting breaking news reports and controversy as it happens." The lede discusses a trend over many years. The only way to get much less recent is to go back into the last millenium; something no longer of relevance to readers except in a history section. --MaximumIdeas (talk) 21:39, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Recent edits - January 2020

An IP editor has made two edits to add what I view as WP:SYNTH material to the article, apparently highlighting rape statistics and trying to tie them to immigrants. The sources used are cherry picked and generally not RS. Gatestone Institute is a far-right think tank and Herland Report is the blog of Hanne Nabintu Herland. Zero Hedge is generally not a reliable source either. If we are to make changes, they must have good sources. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:01, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

It looks like an editor with an agenda, and I agree with the above. That said, the IP editor has a point in that the article needs updating with information from the newest Swedish Crime Survey from 2019 [23]. Right now, unfortunately I don't have the energy to make a major rewrite of the article, which is what it would be to change every part that is sourced to the 2013 or 2014 SCS. Sjö (talk) 05:57, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't feel we should be relying so heavily on the SCS at all. Obviously the most recent one is better than older ones, but it's still a WP:PRIMARY source, which makes it completely unacceptable to present it in a way that encourages the reader to reach a particular conclusion (and by my reading many of the cites to it here are being used that way.) We should find reliable, high-quality secondary sources covering and interpreting what it says instead, and remove anything that we can't find secondary coverage for. --Aquillion (talk) 06:03, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree with both of you. We do need to update, but secondary coverage is key. It that same issue we have with NIBRS and the UCR in the US; the numbers never "speak for themselves", we interpret them. And I admit I have a bias in that this (criminology and crime data) is one of my areas of "expertise", so if I'm being too extra, give me a trouting. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:09, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Not all of the sources added by the IP address seem unreliable. This one was probably fine for example: "Figures released in 2018 found that 58% of convicted rapists and 85% of all convicted assault rapists in Sweden are migrants to Europe. " David A (talk) 13:12, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Here would be the best and most up-to-date source available: [24] A large literature review of Nordic research on immigration and crime from 2005 to 2019 compiled by Brå. It's in Swedish. According to its findings, people born in a foreign country are heavily over-represented in serious crime and 2nd generation immigrants are more likely to commit crimes than 1st generation. --Pudeo (talk) 20:50, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

@Pudeo: That would be akin to the USA's Bureau of Justice Statistics, right? If so, that's still primary sourcing in my opinion. It's not bad, but generally it produces descriptive statistics and review of trends of official data, right? EvergreenFir (talk) 21:58, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

See my comment in the section below, this WP:PRIMARY discussion is now held at two places. But I don't know, Congressional Research Service might also be a good comparision. --Pudeo (talk) 18:47, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

I concur with Pudeo that this is a good source. MaximumIdeas (talk) 21:39, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Over-reliance on the Swedish Crime Survey

The Swedish Crime Survey is a WP:PRIMARY source, and as such we need to be very cautious about using it - it shouldn't be used in ways that encourage the reader towards a particular interpretation (and in my opinion almost all usage of it in the article is at risk for that.) It particularly can't be used in the lead - we either need to find reliable secondary sources interpreting it, and base our coverage on those, or we need to remove the stuff cited to it entirely. --Aquillion (talk) 06:02, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree with this. The survey is done with scientific methods and although Brå is a government agency, it is a research instutition. Brå has a scientific council [25]. Perhaps a good illustration would be that a similar government agency in Finland was directly merged to the University of Helsinki. A police statistics would be a primary source, a survey/study by a research agency not. --Pudeo (talk) 20:50, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Are even police statistics primary, though? Wouldn't primary sources be like using the opinions of convicted criminals or crime victims in the lead section? A Thousand Words (talk) 06:03, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

I concur with Pudeo that it is a research institution and thus, although from a government, should be used as normal. Perhaps it can be mentioned that it is funded by the Swedish government. --MaximumIdeas (talk) 21:35, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Well, according to the Swedish Crime Survey, the number of sex crimes against women increased to 396% from 2012 to 2017 if I remember correctly. That should at least be relevant to mention. David A (talk) 13:09, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Absolutely agreed. MaximumIdeas (talk) 16:40, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

The "396% increase" is the number of reported robberies against convenience stores during the period 1975-2008, not adjusted for population increase or disposition to report such crimes, no? Also note that those years are cherry-picked because 1975 was an outlier with lower than usual number of robberies (203) and 2008 was an outlier in higher than usual number of robberies (1007). If we compare 1977 to 2006 it is instead a ~101% percent increase (once again not taking into account population increase or disposition to report such crimes). In 2018 that number was down to 515 reported robberies. That's the only corresponding number I can find in BRÅ's reports, no such number for sex crimes. Do you have any specific link to a specific BRÅ report? I would very much like to see it. NiklasBr (talk) 22:15, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

I absolutely hate sentences like "This crime increased/decreased by X% between the years 20## and 20##". At best it's original research and at worst it's used for synthesis. If you cherrypick years, crime and your source of information you can have that piece of statistic show either an increase or a decrease in criminality, according to what you want to prove. Crime rates go up and down for a whole lot of reasons, and it's nearly always possible to find two points on a crime rate curve that will give you the result that you want. Sjö (talk) 12:36, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I received the result from the previous version of this page: https://bra.se/statistik/statistiska-undersokningar/nationella-trygghetsundersokningen.html

The numbers for the previous survey from 2018 said that 2.7% of all women in Sweden were subjected to sex crimes in 2012 and 10.7% in 2017. The latter divided by the former makes roughly 3.96. 2012 was picked because the numbers had been relatively stable for a few years until then, and there were only 2.2% subjected to sex crimes in 2011, if I remember correctly. David A (talk) 15:50, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Let's talk math for a short moment :) If I invest 100 SEK in a bank account and a few years later my balance is 396 kronor, my investment has not increased 396%, it has increased 296%. Do you understand the difference? Anything which increases/decreases starts at a baseline from which it changes. The base line in your example is 2,7% (equivalent to my 100 SEK). You use the difference to calculate the change: The change on my bank account is 296 kronor, the change on your numbers is 8 percentage points.

Back to the numbers, please note the following passage from Appendix 12 page 102 in the Technical Analysis (NTU 2018) on the numbers you use, the time series is not internally consistent and when the new method was introduced the chapter on sexual crimes changed significantly, year-over-year comparisons should be avoided unless done with great caution:

Resultaten för allvarlig misshandel och allvarligt sexualbrott har inte räknats om eftersom de, trots omräkning, inte anses vara jämförbara med resultat från undersökningar med den nya metoden. Anledningen är att frågorna om utsatthet för allvarlig misshandel respektive allvarligt sexual-brott tidigare, innan metodbytet, ställdes i en uppföljningsintervju medan de frågorna efter metodbytet ingår i screeningen. NiklasBr (talk) 17:18, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

NiklasBr is correct here. Governmental crime tracking agencies typically caution against comparisons between crimes and across years. The problem is that raw data alone can be misleading, as I could legitimately say both "violent crime has decreased 50% over the past 25 years" and "violent crime has increased 5% over the past 5 years". And did you know that "US government data show that rape increased 32% from 2012 to 2013". If we are going to say anything about data trends, it's best if we quote researchers. If we cannot, then we need to choose our words carefully and talk about general trends without specifying years (lest we cherry pick). EvergreenFir (talk) 21:56, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Just a clarification that I said "increased to 396%" not "increased with 396%". Also, as far as I recall, the changes in the system were for the survey year 2019, not for the 2018 version, which was the year I used as a reference. Also, all that is said in the quoted text is that the counting method for serious sex crimes had changed, not the one for sex crimes overall. In any case, it is certainly worth noting that the frequency has increased to almost 4 times the previous amount in such a brief period of time. David A (talk) 11:58, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

You mentioned no base level to increase from. It was assumed that the base level was the starting year because of that omission. I can accept that. However, a couple of follow-up questions are required:

1. "Increased to 396%" of what? What are you considering the "100% baseline" to compare against? And why specifically?

2. Have you considered new/changed laws during the reported period? E.g. rape within a marriage was not properly outlawed until the sixties.

3. have you considered cultural changes such as what constitutes a sex crime, when I went to school aeons ago, it was generally not considered a sex crime if a teenage boy would lift the skirt of a girl to have a peek, but now it is. Or revenge porn, it was virtually unheard (and its impact possibly lesser) of prior to the widespread use of the modern internet.

4. What about propensity to report on such issues, has that been considered for?

5. Significant changes in methodology to collect answers (as mentioned above) should be considered, as flagged by the authors themselves.

You have an affinity for dumping lots and lots of cherry-picked numbers, some may be correct but they are often significantly misrepresented, some even false, or plain opinion pieces (e.g. see the archived version of this page). You are doing everyone a disfavour by acting the way you do and it has appearance of a pattern and an agenda when you keep on doing things like this. NiklasBr (talk) 17:06, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Look, I picked 2012 because there was a significant spike right afterwards, and I sincerely doubt that the propensity to personally consider offenses as sex crimes went up by as much as 4 times under a 5 year period right afterwards. This is such an enormous change that it is significant to report.

Regarding my motivations, I am exactly what I have always said that I am, an autistic shut-in who is obsessed with statistics, have read a lot of them, and have turned worried as a result. I have listed my main viewpoints in my user page if you are interested. See here for examples of statistics that I have read, in case you are willing to reevaluate your previous viewpoints: [26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36] [37][38][39][40]

Anyway, most people editing political pages in Wikipedia have a bias, including yourself, in fact all humans inherently have a bias. What is relevant is if their views are based on facts or ideology. In my case, I have mixed viewpoints from all over the political spectrum, and try to stick to the former option as much as possible. David A (talk) 10:00, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

NiklasBr you are required to WP:AGF assume good faith, you can't invalidate arguments in this discussion with past behaviour. David A has backed up his arguments with sources so far. A Thousand Words (talk) 19:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the support. Feel free to read through the references that I linked to in my last post, and insert the ones that you think seem useful for Wikipedia, if you wish. David A (talk) 14:08, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

"Sweden-bashing"

This is an extremely obscure, agenda-driven, and slanted opinion piece page that contains no statistical facts whatsoever regarding the crime situation in Sweden. As such the link should be permanently removed from this page.

In addition, I have created a personal user page here, that does in fact contain lots of statistical facts from reliable sources that should preferably be referenced within this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:David_A/Important_Fact_Links David A (talk) 11:54, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Your WP:CHERRY and WP:SYN is of no relevance. Again your opinion on something have very little weight around here. Please used reliable and relevant sources instead. Crime is often used in Sweden-bashing so it's relevant to provide a context. // Liftarn (talk) 12:30, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Again, your personally created page provides no statistical facts, and strictly uses opinion columns as references. It has no relevance whatsoever for a far more fact-oriented information page. David A (talk) 13:00, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Also, given that you categorically do not even attempt to find any statistics or other facts whatsoever to support your claims, you are the last person in the world to have the right to call anybody else slanted simply for using such sources instead of blindsided ideology. David A (talk) 13:03, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

And please debunk every single one of my references before you sweepingly call them unreliable. Several of them are from official statistics institutions and some of your favourite newspapers. David A (talk) 13:07, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

No, the burden of proof is on you. And don't try to sidetrack the discussion to be about something else. // Liftarn (talk) 13:11, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

What makes me angry about you, and others like you, is that you consistently use pure opinion pieces for your claims, argue for why this is fine, and then categorically dismiss statistics from reliable sources as if they were inferior in the next breath. It is extremely insincere, fact-resistant, and hostile to any informed discussion whatsoever. Everything has been reduced to rhetorics and ideology instead of careful informed analysis. It is like talking with a global warming denier. And if you are not willing to provide any examples for why most of my sources are supposedly unreliable, your entire argument fails automatically. David A (talk) 13:37, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I understand that you have a major problem with understanding that Wikipedia is based on what reliable sources say. That you claim reliable sources are "opinion pieces" just because you disagree with the facts presented in them is a problem. Another problem is your whataboutism. You dump a large number of URLs that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. i have no idea why you do that, but it don't help your case. // Liftarn (talk) 13:50, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

The sources that I posted are mostly very reliable and based on statistical information, which is the entire point of this article. My linked list of references is relevant because it directly details a lot of information about the crime situation in Sweden, whereas your link simply mentions that any and all criticism is automatically just a part of one ideological political narrative among many, that anybody can freely pick and choose from with no connection to what is or isn't a part of actual reality.

Basically, your article is filled with pure opinions, as is your usual modus operandi, whereas mine shows that much of the criticism towards Sweden is firmly rooted in reality. It is a facts versus fiction situation, and this particular article should be rooted in the former rather than the latter. David A (talk) 13:57, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

I understand that you may think your feelings are more important than sources, but it's not so on Wikipedia. An example, https://www.ica.se/recept/enkel-appelpaj-1092/ may be a reliable source for that apple pie contains apples. It is however totally irrelevant when discussing the height of Mount Everest. It don't matter how reliable it is, if it says nothing about Mount Everest it's of no use. // Liftarn (talk) 14:14, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Your are outright lying about the context now, and I am increasingly starting to perceive you as a manipulative insincere individual in general. My 100 or so references have nothing to do with feelings. They have everything to do with statistical facts, whereas you have not produced any of them, and are strictly blatantly trolling me in order to waste my time and tick me off. David A (talk) 14:21, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

No, I'm trying (for quite some time now) to learn you how Wikipedia works. If you want the article to say something you need to have reliable sources for it. As your URLs says nothing about Sweden-bashing they can not be used to say anything on that subject. Just as a recepie for apple pie may not be used to say anything about Mount Everest. It's quite simple really. // Liftarn (talk) 14:23, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

The references have everything to do with the crime situation in Sweden, and the opinion pieces in Sweden-bashing has nothing to do with the statistical facts presented in this page. David A (talk) 14:35, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

It is under "See also", but it can also be worked into the article text. And they are still not opinion pieces. // Liftarn (talk) 14:41, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Since the two of us evidently cannot properly communicate with each other, I have requested mediation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Nyheter_Idag David A (talk) 14:54, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

This article is most definitely Sweden-bashing. The article talks about American politicians talking about Sweden’s crime rate without mentioning the large differences of crime rate in Europe, Sweden, and the United States. I feel the article tries to push a view that Sweden is a violent wasteland when America has a intentional homicide rate almost 5 times the rate of Sweden (https://dataunodc.un.org/GSH_app) . I don’t actually know how to amend this article. Dogblock (talk) 18:43, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Comparisons to the United States are irrelevant, as Sweden and the US are rather different in terms of size, economy, system of government, policing etcetera. Traditionally Sweden is primarily compared to other Nordic countries. If other comparisons are made, they are mostly sourced to Swedish researchers such as the one who compared the usage of hand grenades by crime gangs to violence in Mexico. A Thousand Words (talk) 19:01, 25 January 2020 (UTC)