Talk:David Neuberger, Baron Neuberger of Abbotsbury

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Criticism by Derek Simpson[edit]

I have removed the following from the article, for the second time, and after User:Piano non troppo has removed it once before:

On 20 May 2010 David Neuberger was criticized by democratically elected Derek Simpson of the Unite union for rejecting the decision to overturn a ban on industrial action by BA cabin crews. BA had initially been granted an injunction after the High Court had ruled[1] that Unite had allegedly not reported 11 spoiled ballots correctly to its members. Two other judges subsequently upheld Unite's appeal.[2]

  1. ^ "BBC News". 17th May 2010. Retrieved 18th May 2010. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= and |date= (help)
  2. ^ "BBC News". 20th May 2010. Retrieved 21th May 2010. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= and |date= (help)

The anonymous contributor who wrote this left the following comment on my talk page:

Dear Hans, You said "This is a biography in an encyclopaedia, not the "Letters to the editor" section of a newspaper. And it's not even in the source given."
Firstly, the piece that I added to the David Neuberger Wiki page was relevant to the biography page as it was just reporting a fact in the recent professional life of that man. Secondly, I have just second checked the BBC reference links and they both refer directly to the biographical piece that I added.
Therefore, I have again added the piece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.9.252 (talk) 17:31, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Here is a more detailed explanation than fits into an edit summary:

  • "On 20 May 2010 David Neuberger was criticized by [...] Derek Simpson". This is not supported by the second reference (which consists of a written article and a video):
    • The article does not mention any criticism of David Neuberger by anybody at all. It does say: "'We shouldn't have been in this process,' said Unite's Derek Simpson. BA was 'disappointed' with the ruling." From this we can guess that Derek Simpson doesn't like Neuberger's dissenting opinion, but that's hardly enough for claiming that he criticised him.
    • The closest thing to a criticism of Neuberger in the video is the following: "I am grateful to [the other two] [...] The Mater of the Rolls made a slightly different view by arguing for a more rigid application of that particular requirement [...] for [...] not reporting [...] even though we actually did report it." Is that what you mean? It's a big stretch to summarise this as if Simpson had engaged in judge-bashing.
  • This claim wouldn't even pass our normal standards of verifiability, but for matters regarding living people we have even higher standards, see WP:BLP.
  • It is also totally irrelevant to Neuberger's overall biography. It's like inserting the sentence "In 1959 a mother complained that Churchill had bumped into her little son, making him drop his icecream" into Winston S. Churchill. See WP:Recentism for a description of the difference between an encyclopedia and the daily press.
  • If it should ever become apparent that this case becomes relevant to Neuberger, as opposed to Neuberger being relevant to the case, then it can be discussed. The standard for this is approximately that someone who doesn't work for BA and is not a trade union functionary might, in twenty years from now, reasonably say something like: "Neuberger? Wasn't that the bloke who got Unite vs. BA so spectacularly wrong?" This doesn't seem at all plausible to me.
  • Seriously. We cannot, in every article about a judge, list every individual instance of the judge getting something wrong or someone criticising the judge. We are writing an encyclopedia, not a copy of Google. Hans Adler 18:11, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Trying a different approach I looked for any articles with Neuberger and Simpson, and found very few, and none with criticism. Then tried looking for any criticism of Neuberger. There's just nothing to support the first half of this edit, and without that there is no need for either it or the second half. Weakopedia (talk) 21:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think we needed to completely delete a good citation referring to Lord Neuberger MR. When you're correcting what you view to be bias from unregistered editors, don't make the mistake of going too far and getting rid of everything they do! There's often some useful stuff. Wikidea 09:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Post-nominal letters and honorific styling[edit]

I can't find any evidence that Neuberger uses the post nominal letters GBS & HonFRS. I haven't removed them for now, but this is something which should be considered.

Additionally, sources typically style him as "The Rt Hon the Lord Neuberger of Abbotsbury", with Rt Hon being used to denote his status as a member of the privy council. However, this is not reflected in the article. Editing with Eric (talk) 13:34, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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