The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that trade unionist Lt-col. David Watts Morgan CBE DSO MP JP was known by the miners he represented as "Dai Alphabet"?
Current status: Good article
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
The ODNB article seems to have simplified his service history alittle. I think I'm basically there with the London Gazette entries, but his medal card [1] throws a few more spanners in the works. This lists his date of first entry into a theatre of war as 6 December 1914 (qualifying him for the 1914–15 Star), and indicates that he also served as a second lieutenant in 2 Pack Artillery Brigade before going to the Welsh Regiment (note that this was the official spelling at the time of the First World War, curiously, the archaic "Welch2 spelling was not adopted until later (the 1920s I think). This of course is a primary source, as would be his service record, if it survives. The other oddity is his final rank. As I've mentioned, at retirement in 1919 the Gazette describes him as major, as does the entry for his CBE. However, the entries confirming his later returns to Parliament do describe him as Lt-Col, so possibly he took another commission later, but I've not been able to track this down. I've had a quick look for a service record via http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/officerbritisharmyafter1913.htm?WT.lp=rg-3105 and there doesn't seem to be one (there is one for a lieutenant D W Morgan, but I suspect this is the chap in the Vetinary Corps I came across while trawling the Gazette). However, this could also support the idea that he had further service later on, as records for those with service after about 1923 are still with the Ministry of Defence. David Underdown (talk) 09:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
On his retirement rank; in Chris Williams' Democratic Rhondda (1996), it states '...and a retiring promotion to lieutenant-colonel.' This is referenced in the publication as taking this source from: Glamorgan Free Press 27 Jan. 1916, 9 Aug. 1917; Rhondda Leader 12 Jan. 1918 Western Mail 24 Feb.1933. Not sure if this helps any.FruitMonkey (talk) 10:26, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hard to see how the 1918 and earlier refs could shed any particular light on this, the 1933 Western Mail might. I'll maybe see what the Army Lists say later on. I also have a book all about Cambrai, I'll see if he gets a mention. David Underdown (talk) 10:52, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Having browsed through several editions of the Army List from the early 20s I have a theory, though I can't entirely substantiate it. Into early 1921 he his listed (still as a major) as (County Council) representative on the Glamorgan Territorial Association (this was responsible for the local administration of the Territorial Force under the chairmanship of the Lord Lieutenant). I think he may have been given honorary rank as lieutenant-colonel when he stepped down from this position. David Underdown (talk) 14:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just been to the library and found out a bit more. In the Glamorgan County History: Vol VI Glamorgan Society 1780-1980, he is described in the 1929 General election when he stood against Arthur Horner as 'Major D. Watts Morgan'. Your argument is beginning to take shape. We don't need to be precise about the date of his final promotion but we should challenge the Oxford account which appears to have taken from previous presumptions. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:09, 24 August 2010 (UTC) Scrap that, I just misread the notes, it was not at the 29 election. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:16, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, The Times, Friday, Apr 27, 1923; pg. 15; Issue 43326; col E "Court Circular" has him attending a (Royal?) wedding and styles him Lt-Col, while The Times, Monday, Nov 20, 1922; pg. 4; Issue 43193; col C "The New House Of Commons. Complete List., Constituencies And Parties." gives him no rank at all (though other MPs are listed with rank), though The Times, Friday, Oct 27, 1922; pg. 8; Issue 43173; col A "The General Election: "The Times" List Of Candidates." does style him Lt-Col. Aha, The Times, Friday, Jun 03, 1921; pg. 6; Issue 42737; col B "House Of Commons. Thursday, June 2." has him as Major, while The Times, Saturday, Jun 11, 1921; pg. 6; Issue 42744; col A "Parliament. The Plumage Bill., Deceased Brother's Widow Bill., House Of Commons." has Colonel. So taht seems to pin it down, and from memory is consistent with the last mention I found in the Army Lists. David Underdown (talk) 16:35, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Your Sherlockian (is that a word?) eye for detail strikes again. Is there any chance you could condense your findings to put a nail through the Oxford misconceptions? FruitMonkey (talk) 16:46, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A reader writes to Wikimedia with a claim that the spelling of the cemetery "Llethr Du" is incorrect. I've informed the individual that they should contribute to this discussion with an explanation, ideally supported by an RS. --SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:52, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe, the Oxford Dictionary Biography linked to this site states Llethr Du, but other sites use the spelling Llethr-Ddu. Just to make matters worse this website provided by the RCT local government uses both in the same breath. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:23, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
.svg){kind=small}
.svg)
