Talk:Daya Mata

Image needed

This article badly needs an image of this subject. Any contributions to improve the quality of this article would be most welcome. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 19:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Hindu Person

Sri Daya Mata is Italic textnotItalic text the first woman to head a religious organization. That could well be Mary Baker Eddy who founded the Church of Christ, Scientist, in Boston, Massachusetts in 1879 and headed that institution for many years.

"Related Links" states "This article is about a Hindu person.." Not so; the article does not support the statement and it is factually incorrect. Sri Daya Mata and the SRF organization follow and promote the teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda, which have at their core the principles of scientific meditation, not Hinduism. While it is true that Paramahansa Yoganda was himself a Hindu swami he came to the U.S. to teach Kriya Yoga, not Hinduism. The subject of the article, Sri Daya Mata was born in Utah, and is not a "Hindu person".

Seaofmirth 07:59, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a more accurate statement would be "This article is about a Yogi...". That is what Paramahansa Yougananda was, and it is my understanding the a yogi uses scientific principles of meditation in the search for direct experience of God, which would also make Sri Daya Mata a "Yogini" (female of "yogi").

Seaofmirth 08:14, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Sri Daya Mata is an ordained Swamini. She received ordination from Jagad Guru Bhagwan Shankaracharya Bharati Tirtha of Gowardhan Math in May 27, 1959 (source books/path/40). This makes her not only a Hindu but a duly-ordained Hindu authority. And not only her, since 1959 all Self-Realization Order brothers and sisters were recognized as Swamis and Swaminis. While in American they are referred to as brothers or sisters (e.g. Brother Mitrananda) in India they are referred to as Swamis and Swaminis (e.g. Swami Mitrananda). "Paramahansa Yogananda himself belonged to India’s ancient monastic Swami Order founded by Adi Shankaracharya many centuries ago, as do monks and nuns of the Self-Realization Fellowship Order who take their final renunciant vows." (source aboutsrf/srf_monastic). Hope this helps! - Watchtower Sentinel 11:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Moved

This text is moved here so that it can be added to another article, as it does not seem to be about this person. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

---

Other notable disciples came to Yogananda on these dates in the US :

1920 Boston, Dr. Lewis

1924 Seattle, Sister Gyanamata

1924 San Francisco, Tara Mata

1925 Kamala Silva (left SRF)

1927 Hamid Bey (left SRF)

1929 Detroit, Durga Mata

1930 Detroit, Yogacharya Oliver Black (left SRF)

1931 Salt Lake City, Daya Mata

1932 Kansas, Rajarsi Janakananda

1933 Washington DC, Rev. John Lawrence (left SRF)

? Peggy Deitz (left SRF)

...

1945 Daniel Boone (left SRF)

1947 Los Angeles, Norman Paulsen (left SRF)

1948 Los Angeles, Swami Kriyananda (left SRF)

1949 Los Angeles, Rev. Roy Eugene Davis (left SRF)

1951? Bob Raymer (left SRF)

The majority of these disciples wrote and published their experiences.

---

References

Name/title

Since when and by whom she has been called Daya Mata? -- 83.236.99.63 (talk) 13:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Daya, what is the meaning in her case?

-- 83.236.102.16 (talk) 09:32, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

According to this source Daya Mata means Mother of Compassion [1].

Austerlitz -- 88.75.82.204 (talk) 17:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

wikipedia concept: it is written here (and elsewhere)

This article needs sources or references that appear in reliable, third-party publications.

whatever a socalled third-party publication may be, this is a wrong concept.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.204.84 (talk) 08:45, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

In office

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://ompage.net/sridayamataT.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ompage.net/&h=1299&w=993&sz=19&tbnid=Ll2-MdlpS-8D6M:&tbnh=150&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDaya%2BMAta&hl=de&usg=__TYkzb81dfs7VSk4ZZ0FX1mor8u4=&ei=6q99SuTPFoOInQPkwcTzAQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct=image

" Sri Daya Mata has been President of Self-Realization Fellowship since 1955. One of the first women to lead a world-wide religious organization and monastic order, her tenure in such a position is only exceeded by the Dalai Lama."

Austerlitz -- 88.72.17.244 (talk) 17:14, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

very funny http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/5961/srf0hc.jpg

• and* are their male teams or what does our mean in that case?

-- 88.75.85.201 (talk) 15:26, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

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Document with Wikipedia guidelines

Same for this edit. Provide wikipedia guideline that backs up edit.Red Rose 13 (talk) 15:48, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

This edit used a justification of "This is certainly not for an encyclopedia." This is an arbitrary justification (POV), as I found this statement lends insight into Daya Mata's character. Also, the previous edit reversion by @Riquix used an equally arbitrary justification: "Article should also be for readers who are not followers of Yogananda".Azure Dave (talk) 23:04, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

No Promotion

The Article is full of promotion. And as usual, the user Red Rose 13 restores her.--Riquix (talk) 13:06, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Requix. I agree that the article needs some work, but sweeping changes need consensus (Wikipedia:CAUTIOUS). While it is alright to be bold, your edits were reverted, and I think you should discuss your concerns here with the editor who reverted you rather than restoring your edits in full. To keep the discussion productive, please concentrate on discussing the content of the article rather than the conduct of other editors. I have restored the article to its state before the dispute began so that consensus can be reached. Perception312 (talk) 22:39, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, no consensus with Red Rose 13 is possible from previous discussions because she writes that she obviously does not understand me. From the SRF's point of view, she wants to write. But I also think the SRF would recommend keeping the Wikipedia rules. See previous discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Paramahansa_Yogananda#SRF/_YSS_negativ_promotion --Riquix (talk) 08:49, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the context. I looked at the discussion and it seems that, despite the language barrier, progress was made in the discussion with the help of a third editor. I am happy to help in that regard. It looks like you are mainly concerned about Wikipedia:PROMOTION and MOS:PUFFERY in the Discipleship section. I hope we can improve the tone of the article one part at a time. Let's start with the first paragraph of Discipleship. Requix and Red Rose 13, what do you think about changing the paragraph to read like this:

Daya Mata first met Yogananda in 1931 at the age of 17 years. She joined Yogananda's ashram that year. In time, she took her monastic vows with Yogananda and was given the name Daya Mata, which means compassionate mother in Sanskrit.{citations} She described her experience with Yogananda this way:{citation}

"I had the good fortune to attend a series of lectures given in my hometown of Salt Lake City by a great man of God, Paramahansa Yogananda. In the years that followed, I learned from him the way to total fulfillment of the lifelong yearning of my heart: perfect love, divine love—the all-consuming love experienced in communion with the Eternal Beloved of our souls."

This version of the paragraph is more neutrally worded and shortens the overlong quote while still including her point of view, which is relevant information in an article about her life. Quotes are not promotional if they are given due weight and are introduced in a neutral way. This version also explains the meaning of her monastic name (which seems to be Daya Mata, not just Daya). Perception312 (talk) 16:10, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

For me, I would let the quotes out completely like in my changes. I think you don't have to make something beautiful, either you like PY or not. If quotes only how it really recommends the Wikipedia.--Riquix (talk) 16:23, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

My reason for including the quote is that it explains her meeting with PY in more detail and it helps us understand her motivation for following PY. I think it is good for articles to include both what the subject did and why the subject did it. Wikipedia recommends using quotes for opinions that cannot be stated in wikipedia's voice. Right now the article has too much quoted material, but by shortening this quote, we can improve the situation without going to the other extreme against consensus. I'm trying to suggest changes that both you and Red Rose 13 can accept. I hope we can at least agree that the version I suggested is an improvement. Perception312 (talk) 17:00, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

What do you think that you can edit the whole article? And then discuss it. What also bothers me a bit is the introduction that you subliminally indicate that the Ananda Society is not part of it (I'm not a member there). The other discussion went long, in this time I write several articles. I think you can see when you advertise in an article, what kind of damage does.--Riquix (talk) 17:49, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Perception312 for your participation. Thank you Riquix for sharing your point of view. Perception312 Your version of the first paragraph under Discipleship is an improvement to the page and I tweaked it a little because we need to include her yearning for unconditional love because that is who she is and this is a page about her. "Daya Mata, with a steadfast yearning for perfect, unconditional love, first met Yogananda in 1931 at the age of 17 years. She believed that she found a pure source of the unconditional love she was searching for so she joined his ashram that year. In time, she took her monastic vows with Yogananda and was given the name Daya, which means compassionate mother in Sanskrit.{citations} She described her experience with Yogananda this way:{citation} "I had the good fortune to attend a series of lectures given in my hometown of Salt Lake City by a great man of God, Paramahansa Yogananda. In the years that followed, I learned from him the way to total fulfillment of the lifelong yearning of my heart: perfect love, divine love—the all-consuming love experienced in communion with the Eternal Beloved of our souls." I have read that Daya Mata did receive the name Daya from Yogananda but she and a number of other senior nuns received the name Mata after Yogananda left this world. Any thoughts...suggestions. Please feel to correct any awkwardness. Red Rose 13 (talk) 20:33, 10 July 2023 (UTC):::::::Here is the reference to back up when she received the name Daya

Thanks, Red Rose 13. I agree that Daya Mata's motivations are worth including, but I think "with a steadfast yearning for perfect, unconditional love" is the kind of Wikipedia:EMPHATIC language Requix seems to be concerned about. A more impartial wording might be: "From an early age, Daya Mata desired a personal relationship with God. When she was 17 years old in 1931, she met Yogananda for the first time, and she joined his ashram in Los Angeles, California." Later, the quote explains her motivations in more detail. Perception312 (talk) 22:10, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Sounds good. I will leave this discussion in your and Riquix's capable hands.Red Rose 13 (talk) 23:21, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

In the introduction, made a small change. There is also relatively neutral in the PY. The quotes seem a lot to me for the size of the article, but it is a little difficult for me because I am not an English speaker and almost have no to do with the rules in practice. If you have time at some point, you can also bring in suitable references because there is also a template below. From me you can remove the template advertising.--Riquix (talk) 16:32, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, Riquix. Perception312 (talk) 17:02, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

It is vitally important to clarify that Yogananda only created one church to care for and to disseminate his teachings.Red Rose 13 (talk) 01:12, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I think that doesn't belong in the Wikipedia at all in the introduction. That is not at the beginning in the PY article. One should not use the articles for conflicts with the Anada Society. Riquix (talk) 18:57, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I have no objection to moving this information further down on the page but the question is...where? This information clarifies what Yogananda's intentions were and that he, himself, created SRF/YSS and protected it by incorporating SRF in 1935 before he left on his trip to India. He did not create any other organization to disseminate and protect his teachings. Wikipedia is all about providing the facts. Red Rose 13 (talk) 21:51, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

This is an article about Daya Mata. If so, it should be in SRF or YSS. But the YSS also has a form of independence, so please also in articles. I honestly say I think it is about distancing yourself from Ananda Society. There are other masters, there is not such a wording. It is normal that an organization you founded is there for it.--Riquix (talk) 07:30, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Riquix, since you mentioned there is a language barrier between you and Red Rose 13, I'm going to try to paraphrase parts of your comment: You argue that information about SRF/YSS and its founding mission belong on the SRF and YSS articles and not on Daya Mata's article. You believe that YSS may count as a different organization from SRF. You have not found sources that contain the wording used by Red Rose 13. You believe that the fact that Yogananda founded SRF/YSS sufficiently implies its purpose to disseminate his teachings. Have I interpreted your words correctly?

I think it makes sense to briefly mention what SRF/YSS is, since Daya Mata was its president and Yogananda was her teacher. From what I've read, Ananda was founded by someone else. Perception312 (talk) 17:41, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

In response:(1) Daya Mata was president of SRF/YSS for 55+years and adding details about SRF/YSS is completely appropriate. (2) YSS is not independent from SRF. Follow this link to understand why [2] (3) Riquix why do you keep mentioning Ananda, are you a member or supporter? (4) Yes Perception312 Ananda was created by Kriyananda, not Yogananda and to point that out brings clarity on Wikipedia which is fact oriented.(5) Also there are other direct disciples who started their own organization/church [3]: Oliver Black started Song of the Morning Ranch and was connected to SRF, Roy Eugene Davis started his Center for Spiritual Awareness (CSA) and created his own teachings, Norman Paulsen created his own organization Sunburst, Bob Raymer became spiritual director of Song of the Morning Ranch. (6) It is not promotional to differentiate from other teachers and to clarify that Yogananda only created SRF/YSS (7)So to bring clarity to Wikipedia we need to use these words: the only church founded by Yogananda and his intent to disseminate his teachings. Red Rose 13 (talk) 03:41, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

I see, so the wording is to distinguish SRF/YSS from other organizations it might be confused with. Fair enough. Perception312 (talk) 16:41, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

References

Request for Comment - Wording

Isn't it better to accommodate the following wording in its organization (SRF/YSS)? If it is relevant or is presented correctly. From these changes: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Daya_Mata&diff=prev&oldid=1165583134 --Riquix (talk) 14:41, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I have no problem with the tone of the remarks but they are not clearly sourced. Do you have a source for these claims? — Charles Stewart (talk) 15:25, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Added a reliable secondary source. I can add more if it is necessary. Red Rose 13 (talk) 11:36, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

• Support, I think. I don't quite understand the OP, but if the RfC is asking whether or not I support the inclusion of the words in the linked edit, then yes, I support inclusion. I suppose they should be cited though.

However, it seems that the purpose of the OP is to clarify something about the religion noted that seems to go by two different names? It's a confusing sentence to begin with, and I don't know if the added word choice solves the problem it's intended to solve. Pistongrinder (talk) 23:45, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

I think the OP is suggesting that the wording be omitted from this article about one of the religion's leaders, and only included in the article about the religion itself. It's a few extra words that provide a bit of context about the organization led by the subject, which helps establish notability in my view. Establishing notability is one of the purposes of a lead section, so I agree that the brief context is worth including in some form. Perception312 (talk) 00:19, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Perception312, by "OP", I meant Riquix who began this RfC. But I still think the sentence we're looking at here is very confusing, so the added wording may provide additional context, but it solves a problem that is less important to me than the problem of readability. What do you think? Pistongrinder (talk) 15:41, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm looking at the sentence currently used in the article, which includes the added wording. I simplified the sentence a bit on 20 July, but I suppose it is still a complex sentence. It could be separated into two simpler sentences: Daya Mata, born Rachel Faye Wright (January 31, 1914 – November 30, 2010), was the third president and religious leader of Self-Realization Fellowship/Yogoda Satsanga Society of India (SRF/YSS). SRF/YSS is the only church founded by her spiritual teacher, Paramahansa Yogananda, to disseminate his teachings.

Would this change address your concern about the readability of the wording? Perception312 (talk) 19:18, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Much easier to read. Thank you. Red Rose 13 (talk) 20:14, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. This is much clearer. Pistongrinder (talk) 22:00, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

• Support with adequate references, which RR13 has provided. — Charles Stewart (talk) 11:10, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
• I support the inclusion of the wording. Perception312 (talk) 13:33, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
• I support the addition; however, in the second sentence I'm not sure if "church" is the correct word representing the organization ("SRF/YSS is the only church founded by her spiritual teacher..."). Church is defined as a "official Christian religious organization" by Cambridge dictionary . I wonder if a better word here would be "spiritual organization," or just "organization?" Whitestar12 (talk) 14:22, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

  To me, church means a building. I like organization, and I think most of the sources use that word. Perception312 (talk) 15:00, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

I agree. On the SRF website it says spiritual organization [4].Red Rose 13 (talk) 17:23, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

References